Quality of Winchester brass

[DLCTEX]

I reloaded some 220 Swift ammo for a friend today using new Win. brass I got off Swapping and Selling in two batches. I first prepped 40 pcs of new "old stock" brass in 20 rd. boxes I got from one member. The brass was shorter than a Lee case length gauge would touch which is trim length 2.195. I measured 10 cases and they ranged from 2.188 to 2.192 with rough saw edge mouths. I trimmed enough to square up and smooth the mouths. One case took .004 removal until the cutter touched all the way around. Of the 40 cases only two were square with just a smoothing cut.. I took 10 cases from a new bag of 100 and finished out the 50 rounds I wanted to load. The new lot was also saw edged, but more uniform with the worst of the 10 being .002 out of square and three of the 10 were square with a smoothing cut with case length running 2.190-2.193. I think a pinch die is used to cut case length as there was a slight crimp at the edge of the mouth that inhibited the trimmer pilot only at the edge. That would also explain the saw edge. I loaded 42.5 gr. of H 4831 powder which filled the 40 cases uniformly to the base of the neck. When the 10 new lot were loaded with powder it came halfway up the neck. We will separate the old and new lots when fired and see how they compare on capacity after firing. I have recently loaded Remington, Hornady, Norma, Starline, and Federal new cases in the past six months and have not encountered the rough mouth or out of square condition with any other brand. Those brands are very uniform in all aspects, allowing for a few dings caused by shipping. The Winchester 44 mag. brass I bought recently has perfect case mouths, and I never found the rough mouths on fired cases, so we can assume they know how to prepare them. I have encountered the same problems on Win. .222 and .243 in the past, so it was no surprise. I do wonder why there are not threads bashing Winchester like I have seen for Lee not turning out finished quality? I usually try to buy Remington brass, but these days you are happy to get what you can. I could find no 220 Swift brass with any internet search or in calls to LGS within 150 miles. Thanks for Swapping and Selling!

[country gent]

I purchased 200 220 swift cases last spring. Since my No1 has a tight chamber from the factory I sized and seated a bullet in one case (no primer or any powder) to test. It would barly chamber as necks were .012- .0125 thk on a side. I have ran into this before with other brands and with cases fired many times. I pulled the bullet, sized and expanded to my turners mandel. Then neck turned to my notes neck thickness of .0115.Thhe cases trimmed out right to size though. I have used Norma and winchester brass in this rifle byt next batch may be starline if available. A gunsmith at the Local gunshop was telling me he had built a 220 swift and test fired with win factory loads and was showing high pressure sighns. I took my neck thickness gage down and those fired cases also showed over .012 thick.

[texassako]

Does S&B make some of Winchester's brass like they make some of their ammo? I have S&B brass that has less case volume than any other brand because of thick brass. Remington rifle brass is usually where I encounter defects, but had not seen it in Winchester yet.

[Bullshop Junior]

What winchester ammo does S&B make?

I bought a brand new box of Winchester 454 ammo awhile back because it was about $21 and brass wasnt much cheaper so I figured I would shot it up and reload the brass. Half of it split around the head first shot.

[Cmm_3940]

I have had the exact same issues with new Winchester brass in .223 Remington. I have also heard the same complaints from others, so apparently this is typical. i'd rather load LC range pickup brass than new Winchester brass.

[texassako]

What winchester ammo does S&B make?

I bought a brand new box of Winchester 454 ammo awhile back because it was about $21 and brass wasnt much cheaper so I figured I would shot it up and reload the brass. Half of it split around the head first shot.

From what I understand, they make the white box stuff. If it doesn't say Made in USA and say Czeck Republic instead, it is S&B. I had some Winchester white box 7.62x54r that had the same undersized primer pockets as S&B. I just wondered if they made brass for them as well. Maybe the bag of bulk brass says the country of origin?

[sidecarmike]

I just encountered the same kind of problems with a new bag of Winchester 44-40 cases The same ragged mouth. Lengths varied, and the cases are so thin I collapsed a couple seating the bullet. When it happened the first time, I thought it a fluke. The second time I started looking closer. They were so thin I could actually squeeze one flat between my fingers. No more new Winchester brass for me.

[C. Latch]

I've had nothing but good results with their .45 Colt and .45 ACP brass. I've seen pictures of their .454 Casull brass that was ruined after one shot, though.

I use other brands for most everything else.

[tomme boy]

They also make some of the 45 acp ammo. The rim is slightly smaller in diameter and the font is not the same. It is more of a block type of font. And yes the 7.62x54r is made by S&B also. I don't use any of the Win 308 brass anymore as it is all over the place for the weight. They also have very thin necks for the 308.

[Gator 45/70]

I have had the exact same issues with new Winchester brass in .223 Remington. I have also heard the same complaints from others, so apparently this is typical. i'd rather load LC range pickup brass than new Winchester brass.

What he said ^ It's junk

[Shepherd2]

I bought 100 new 6.5x55 Winchester cases about a year ago. I bought Winchester cases because the previous lot I bought were really nice. Not these. All 100 had the saw edge at the mouth and most case mouths were dented. One case did not have a flash hole and one case didn't even have an extractor groove. Several cases had deep dents in the body. I wound up throwing 8 brand new cases in the scrap bucket for various reasons. I don't know who made those cases but I pretty much swore off Winchester brass after that experience.

[MUSTANG]

One wonders how many "Complaints" they have received. Also, do they "Data Mine" from sights such as this one?

We know that this sight has some influence, just look at the dramatic increase in businesses listing on the advertising banners on your screen for this sight. I would think that posts similar to this one are read and heeded by those companies who are serious about their company market shares. I would say it's important that we keep up the well thought out and expressed observations such as this one, it can only improve the products we buy.

[ole 5 hole group]

I purchased a couple cases of 223 Winchester 55 grain FMJ and they shot OK but no where near as well as my reloads but I have found no problems with the brass.

After firing I trimmed the cases to length and reloaded them and so far they have functioned great with no splits, enlarged primer pockets etc. I full length resize and I have 6 firing on some of the Winchester brass and they are holding up fine.

[fouronesix]

Winchester brass has been and seems to continue to be on par with most of the rest of factory brass in that price range. The saw tooth mouth is common and is a product of the drawing process. All brass no matter the price range or perceived quality needs to be prepped and fire formed for best results.

Some reloaders of cartridges like the 38-40 or 44-40 who load for original rifles seek out the thinnest neck wall brass on purpose and for good reason. Also, those type cartridges have always had very thin neck walls.

[Love Life]

I just got done doing some .243 work with new Winchester brass. It took 250 cases to allow me to get 100 cases that were all within 1 grain of each other (158-159gr). Then I deburred the flash hole and uniformed the primer pockets. Quite a bit of brass was removed. I then annealed all the new brass and ran it through my FL sizing die. No issues there. I measured it and length was all over the place, but all under the max case length. I chamfer and deburred the case mouths, added powder/bullet, and went and fire formed them. All 100 cases survived.

I typed all this to get to my next point.

Winchester brass requires a little work, but at the end of the day it is good brass (rifle brass). The phrase "I hope you have to prep virgin Winchester brass" is a commonly thrown about curse.

Norma brass is $1.00 apiece and my primer pocket uniformer removed ALOT of material. That was really it though. It was within 1 gr of eachother, chamfered/deburred, and consistent length. That brass also has 12 reloads on it...

In conclusion, I would not shy away from Winchester brass. It is good brass, produces accurate ammunition, and has a long case life if you are willing to put the effort into it.

[Bullshop Junior]

I've never heard the winchester brass curse. I like it.

[Boyscout]

I have been reloading a fair amount of 44 Remington Magnum brass from Winchester. My reloads are accurate and show no signs of case splits. Same for 30-06. I have a lot of mixed brass that goes back to the 60's and 70's, 30-06 and 35 Remington. Not knowing how many times it was reloaded, I have been annealing, cleaning, and trimming it before use. So far I have had no issues reloading Winchester Metric 7.62x54R but I prefer the Priv Partisan brass.

[tomme boy]

I forgot one other thing I have found about it. It is a little smaller in the web area. So the brass looks like you are going to have a case separation. This was with 308win, 243win, 8mm Mauser, 6.5x55. The 6.5 was the worst. None of the other brass I get does this. This was with all factory loaded ammo.

[JeffinNZ]

The best .303 British brass I have is 1943 Dominion out of Canada. War time manufacture, better quality than present brass. Just amazing.

[southpaw]

For the price it is pretty hard to beat. I have had exceptional case life with them. The down side is that they require some prep work. If one doesn't like it they can always spend $1 a piece for norma or nosler brass. Lapua isn't much cheaper. Personally I would rather do a little extra work and have more brass.

Jerry Jr.

[TXGunNut]

I bought some WW 32-20 brass awhile back and it was quite good. Didn't matter; it was all I could find. RP was my go-to brass until I got some Hornady brass. No culls, minimal initial prep. I've seen some Prvi 220 Swift ammo that was pretty good, brass seems to be very good.

[bikerbeans]

Only NIB Winchester brass I have loaded is 45-70 and 45ACP. Only thing I noticed with both these lots of brass is the factory trim of the case mouths was very rough and in a lot of cases the case mouths where dented or deformed. This brass once trimmed and sized was fine.

BB

[klausg]

I would say that their QA/QC is all over the map, e.g., I bought a bag of 100 .223 about 2 years ago, the count was right, but there were 21 .204 cases. Luckily I also own a .204, after that one I decided to quit buying new Winchester...

-Klaus

[DLCTEX]

I haven't bought factory rifle ammo in a lot of years. I wonder if Winchester rifle ammo is loaded with the brass as they sell empty brass? It wouldn't be hard to see if it is as out of spec as this brass.

[DLCTEX]

One final note on this brass. Last week I finished loading the last 90 rounds and when priming, one case would not go into the shell holder. Upon examination the case had been mashed hard enough flatten the rim on both sides and the side of the case was dished inward. No other cases showed any such damage, leading me to believe it was damaged before being bagged. QC failure. I did file the rim and run it through the sizer straightening the case wall. If given a choice I will not buy Winchester brass in the future.

[captaint]

It saddens me to hear this. I used to buy Winchester brass exclusively for my rifles. Always liked it alot. Haven't bought any in a few years, though. Mike

[Roosters]

Last year purchased 50 pc in the bag new Winchester 30-30 brass. After a medium loading of 25 shooting 8 split length wise from the body across shoulder. I hadn't had this problem before. I took pictures of the split cases and emailed Winchester asked if they recently had problems with 30-30 brass. Gave them complete load data (primer,powder,bullet, powder charge and COAL) Wasn’t expecting a reply.

Got a call from Winchester the next morning saying they would like to have the all the brass returned for inspection. They said if I would box it up UPS would be here the following day to pick it up. I did . The next week got a check from them that more than covered the cost of the fifty pieces and a letter apologizing for my problem and the brass had been sent to quality control for further review. I was pleased with the way they handled it .

[osteodoc08]

I've had no issues with Winchester brass in my 22-250, 243, 7-08 or pistol calibers. The brass out of the WWB doesnt seem to last as long, but if I get a few loadings, I'm happy. I prefer starline for pistol and Rifle (if they offer it in that caliber). Otherwise, I've been happy with R-P. I've used it for years without issue.

[Smoke4320]

my experience is WW Brass has diminished in useable life span over the last few years.. used to get 7 to 10 med to heavy med loads on rifle brass now usually 4 to 6.. and sometimes only 2 .. as said before I get lengthwise body splits or neck splits ..
now I avoid Winchester brass unless its a gun I will shoot rarely..

[Eutectic]

I've attached a photo of a late new WW casing in .25-20 Win. These are a 'seasonal' run item in both WW and R-P; hard to get!

My good friend got a Remington Model 25 recently and found a bag of WW brass finally. Brand new stuff! He gave me this piece of brass. Not only is quality terrible... But the neck has draw mark flaws that would lead to early failure! Then, the bodies of the casing have deep gouges as if they got 'caught' during manufacture! Not dents.... gouges! The clincher though is the case rim shown.
It was never finished in the brass making process.!! Not only is the relief groove not cut in above the rim; the rim itself was never finished! It is .011" oversize!!!! Enough it wouldn't go in the chamber of one of my guns! I asked my buddy how many in the new bag of brass were that way. He said 8 or 10...... Then he showed me some new WW Hornet cases.... The heads was visually concaved! So much so they wouldn't chamber in his Sako without very hard bolt closure.... It appears the right hand doesn't even know what the left hand is doing in East Alton!

Sadly to those of us that knew the 'old' WW.... brass is but one thing.... one thing of many showing us the death throes of Winchester...

Eutectic
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