help with cast in the .380ACP

[Mazikeen]

I've lucked into shooting 45acp with cast every bit as good as high dollar jacketed, my 380 however I am struggling with, in a short barrel pistol it is shooting decent, when I shoot the same loads out of a 380 with a 4" barrel the group is opening up to about 7 inches at 10 yards. I've tried two different molds 90g and 105g with no change, I'm thinking of dropping the powder charge to start the diag process. Opinions?

[Ed_Shot]

Need more info about what you are doing. For starters:

What load(s) are you using?
What boolits are you using?
Are you sizing your boolits? What diameter?
What lube are you using?
What pistol are you using?

[mpbarry1]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121607-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mmAnd what alloy? less powder can be good or bad. read mtngun's sticky, I'm sure it will help. it is excellent.

[rexherring]

Need more info about what you are doing. For starters:

What load(s) are you using?
What boolits are you using?
Are you sizing your boolits? What diameter?
What lube are you using?
What pistol are you using?

What he said. I have good luck with My .380 sizing to .358 and adjusting powder loads until groups improve.

[Hard_Cast]

I've had good luck with a Lee 102 gr. RN, sized at .357 (.355 and .356 didn't work well, so....) and got groupings with TiteGroup and HP 38. Unique didn't do so well, surprisingly. Also decent accuracy with a Lyman 115 gr. WadCutter, not sure which mold specifically. Shooting from a Walther PPK. (3.3" bbl)

[Mazikeen]

I didn't offer alot of basic information as I was looking for a quick direction. I did some more reading/research and I'm gonna load up a few as cast instead of sizing to .356 and leave the load the same, see what happens. If it seems to go the right direction I will slug the barrel just so I know and slug my other 380 also, perhaps it has a bit more potential in it?

edit, I should have listed the weapons though, my bersa 380 shoots my 356 ww cast tumble lube 102 lee pretty good, same round/load in all regards is not shooting well at all in my taurus PT58HC.

[Ed_Shot]

I load for a Bersa, an LCP, a PPK and a Colt Mustang. They all like the Lyman 356242 (90 gr) and Lee 356-102-1R (103 gr) sized to .358 w/WL 2500+ lube. The as-cast for both boolits is .359+. I like Unique 3.4 under the 90 gr and Unique 3.0 under the 103 gr. I have never slugged a bore for a .380 ACP. These same boolits shoot great in 9MM also.

[Hard_Cast]

Loading as cast might give you chambering issues. If so, order the Lee Factory Crimp Die. It sizes the case and irons out any wrinkles or bulges. Confusingly, their bulge buster is an attachment to the FCD, and lets you push the cartridge all the way through. The only advantage I see is speed. I've started using the FCD on 380 and 45. 9mm runs flawlessly bulges and all so I don't worry about it.

[Mazikeen]

I load for a Bersa, an LCP, a PPK and a Colt Mustang. They all like the Lyman 356242 (90 gr) and Lee 356-102-1R (103 gr) sized to .358 w/WL 2500+ lube. The as-cast for both boolits is .359+. I like Unique 3.4 under the 90 gr and Unique 3.0 under the 103 gr. I have never slugged a bore for a .380 ACP. These same boolits shoot great in 9MM also.

are you running WW alloy? Mine are dropping right at 356-357ish, I'll need to beagle a bit to try 358.

[Ed_Shot]

Your clip-on ww alloy is fine. My alloy is approx. 92-6-2. Lee molds usually give you an extra .001 or two. The Lyman 356242 initially cast .3555 ~ .3565 and I had Erik Ohlen (a vendor here) ream it to .359+ ....worth every penny IMHO.

Try yours as-cast. They may well work fine and the price is right. Try the BEAGLE also. It's pretty easy. I bet you see improvement with the boolits sized 357~358.

What load(s) are you using?

[Mazikeen]

I have 4 basic loads all developed for the bersa, the PT58HC is a new toy;

2.8gr SR4756, xtreme plated 100gr, extremely accurate but not reliable to cycle bersa, fte/stovepipes common, use as training round by tossing a few into a hundred pack when I box them up, not tested in taurus

4.2gr SR4756, xtreme plated 100g, slightly large than golfball grouping from rested weapon, extremely consistent not tested in taurus

4.0gr SR 4756, LRN 95gr from Badman, same performance as above, tested in taurus with same poor performance as hand cast

4.0gr SR4756, LRN 105gr WW alloy from Lee mold, same performance in bersa above poor performance in taurus, worse than badman rounds, lubed with two coats of alox.

3.8gr Unique, Hornady XTP, 120 rounds proven in bersa with grapefruit size accuracy at 25yards from rest, not tested in taurus yet as I need to make some more up.

All my cases are trimmed to .677, all use WSP, mixed brass (only nickel is segregated for XTP rounds) I also set my OAL on all above to .950. All rounds are ran through a lee factory crimp, and finally pushed through a bulge buster. Other than the XTP rounds I have approx 3500 rounds of the others listed mix/match through the bersa with never a single fault unless running the 2.8 gr, the shoot clean, low smoke, almost no muzzle flash and never an effort to clean the bore. The unique is a bit poppy however that is by design as those are built specifically to push the little XTP near 1100 fps (some of us knew that this bullet was before shootingthebull410 proved it with the precision one rounds :-)

I've gone from the 2.8 up to 4.2 gr of SR4756 but I've yet to make a 3.5gr scoop, it's on my list :-) The 4.0 standard is convenient as it is a consistent scoop for my setup, the other loads are dropped from a lyman 55.

[Ed_Shot]

May I ask where you are getting your published load data. I use the Lyman 4th Ed Handbook and I have the 49th Ed for j-word data. I am not familiar with most of the boolits you mention but for your Lee 105 gr (I assume 356-102-1R) Lyman lists a starting load for SR-4756 at 3.2 gr @ 870 fps with a max of 3.6 gr @ 958. I'm not surprised that 2.8 gr SR-4756 under the Lee 105 gr. does not cycle your Bersa and I'd be surprised if you got good accuracy using the Lee 105 gr over 4.0 gr of SR-4756. With the Lee 105 gr I recommend you start with 3.2 gr of SR-4756 and work up a .1 gr at a time (staying within published data) till you get best accuracy with perfect function.

You don't say what weight Hornady XTP you are using but 3.8 gr of Unique is way over any max load listed by Layman for the .380 with jacketed.

Start low and work up with published data is the best way to find an accurate load.

[NSP64]

With cast FIT is king
Jakxt bullets the copper grabs the rifling and blow by is no big deal.
Blow by from too small of cast will lead like crazy.


I like my cast to be .001-.002" over bore
I have a Taurus pt111 9mm that is loose @ .358"
And a Mac clone that is .356"
I shoot both with Lee 125gr RFP boolits sized .360"(38/357 mold I also use for my 38 and 357)

Slug both barrels, then cast for the biggest.

Be sure to use pure lead when slugging

[rintinglen]

A load that gets all my business is the RD 358-100 (Lee now catalogs a virtual clone) over 3.2 grains of WW-231. It works well in my Beretta and Walther, but not so well in my Colt Mustang, which, Like Mikey, Hates everything.

[rking22]

Wow rintinglen , thats exactly the same load I shoot in my 84! What OAL do you load to, I have been fiddling with it but not settled. I have noticied that OAL changes have a dramatic effect on accuracy! Those things are amazingly accurate. Never had a 380 or 9mm till about a year ago. Now 2 each ,I guess that was my version of panic buying! I have had best luck with a fairly soft bullet, and sized .358,way better than the ones I bought while waiting on the group buy(.356 and hardcast).

[gefiltephish]

A load that gets all my business is the RD 358-100 (Lee now catalogs a virtual clone) over 3.2 grains of WW-231. It works well in my Beretta and Walther, but not so well in my Colt Mustang, which, Like Mikey, Hates everything.

I have the Lee clone which doesn't like to feed in my Mustang clone (Sig 238). When one does land in the chamber, it actually shoots quite well. I also use 3.2gr of 231. I started out with 'em at .358, then .357, and now I have some made up at .356. Took my granddaughter to the range with me Sunday, but not the Sig. Hope to try it out this weekend though.

[freebullet]

Lee 102 at 356 with red dot has worked for me when I had a 380.

The bulge buster was intended to help glocked cases I think.

As cast may make your results less consistent.

[Boogieman]

I have 4 basic loads all developed for the bersa, the PT58HC is a new toy;

2.8gr SR4756, xtreme plated 100gr, extremely accurate but not reliable to cycle bersa, fte/stovepipes common, use as training round by tossing a few into a hundred pack when I box them up, not tested in Taurus

4.2gr SR4756, xtreme plated 100g, slightly large than golfball grouping from rested weapon, extremely consistent not tested in taurus

4.0gr SR 4756, LRN 95gr from Badman, same performance as above, tested in taurus with same poor performance as hand cast

4.0gr SR4756, LRN 105gr WW alloy from Lee mold, same performance in bersa above poor performance in taurus, worse than badman rounds, lubed with two coats of alox.

3.8gr Unique, Hornady XTP, 120 rounds proven in bersa with grapefruit size accuracy at 25yards from rest, not tested in taurus yet as I need to make some more up.

All my cases are trimmed to .677, all use WSP, mixed brass (only nickel is segregated for XTP rounds) I also set my OAL on all above to .950. All rounds are ran through a lee factory crimp, and finally pushed through a bulge buster. Other than the XTP rounds I have approx 3500 rounds of the others listed mix/match through the bersa with never a single fault unless running the 2.8 gr, the shoot clean, low smoke, almost no muzzle flash and never an effort to clean the bore. The unique is a bit poppy however that is by design as those are built specifically to push the little XTP near 1100 fps (some of us knew that this bullet was before shootingthebull410 proved it with the precision one rounds :-)

I've gone from the 2.8 up to 4.2 gr of SR4756 but I've yet to make a 3.5gr scoop, it's on my list :-) The 4.0 standard is convenient as it is a consistent scoop for my setup, the other loads are dropped from a lyman 55.

Are you pushing your loaded rounds through the bulge buster? It's made to resize bulged cases before reloading . using it on a loaded round may be resizing your bullets making them too small for a proper fit in your bore. The Lee FCD can do the same thing with larger than standard size boolits.

[Mazikeen]

Are you pushing your loaded rounds through the bulge buster? It's made to resize bulged cases before reloading . using it on a loaded round may be resizing your bullets making them too small for a proper fit in your bore. The Lee FCD can do the same thing with larger than standard size boolits.

Forest for the trees......u know, hadn't thought of that and damn if I don't know better, years back had alot of trouble with some of my 45acp brass that had substantially different wall thickness threw me for a loop with boolit setback. Doesn't exactly answer why the bersa is so forgiving to whatever I feed it, but it sure may answer the taurus issue. I'm going to take down a few rounds and mic the lead, see what it has squished down to.

[Boogieman]

Your Bersa may have a tighter bore. IMR 4756 is a little slow in a 380ACP B .eye, 231, or Titegroup might work better I've used all 3 in 3 different 380s with good results.