Hull question... and others

[M Hicks]

I dabbled in reloading shot shells a long time ago and am getting back into it again. I am using the AA and Gun Club I can find for trap loads. The real question I have is regarding some of the other ones I have.

I cross sectioned at least one of each different shell I have to find out what the inside construction is like. Federal Top Gun, Game, Field and Target and some Estate hulls I have are all the same internal construction as far as I can tell. Straight walled 2.75" hull with a rolled paper base wad in the bottom.

Does anyone know if these are all the same hull for reloading purposes? Are these the ones listed as the Federal Hi-Power hulls for reloading purposes? In doing some research others have said Gold Medal data can safely be used in these. Truth or fiction?

I have some other 2.75" Estate hulls that have a small plastic base wad in the bottom that look identical to some Herter's hulls that I have. Is there any data out there for these? How are they labeled in the books if there is?

As I mentioned, I plan to use the AA and Gun Clubs for the recreational trap shooting. I want to try the Federal/Estate with some buckshot and maybe slugs later on. I don't plan on using them for hunting. Just paper targets and such at the range.

My powder selection and hull choice is very limited. I have Blue Dot I was thinking about using with RP12 wads and Win 209 primers I picked up.

Alliant's web site lists;

2 3/4 Federal Gold Medal Plastic Target Shells
RP 12 Wad
Win 209 primer
34.5 Blue Dot
1250 fps at 8600 psi

The 00 buckshot I cast out of lino weigh close to 51 grains per pellet. 9 weigh 447 grains which is just over 1 oz. I think I will have to try and get 12 in the hull to get close to the 60 grain - 1 and 3/8 oz load weight. I could also cast them out of another alloy too I guess.

I apologize for the long winded-ness. Any suggestions, info, data, experiences are appreciated. Thanks.

[Hogtamer]

The estate hulls you mention with the brass bases are federals by another name and load great with the right components - they are also plentiful. The silver colored bases are the ones with paper base and I leave them be. Stick with the 9 pellet load and I think you'll be well pleased. You'll have to see if your OO will make stacks of 2 without bulging the wads as the RPs have internal ridges that effectively narrow the cup size. If so you'll probably get 4 stacks of 2 for an 8 pellet load. Remember it's the number of pellets on target that matter, not the number of pellets in the hull.

[M Hicks]

I appreciate the feedback Hogtamer. I forgot to mention I was planning on stacking with 2 per layer. These measure .33". I wanted to see if the ridges in the RP12 would help a little with the grouping also. If the extra little stiffness would somehow hold the shot tighter for a little longer before the wad separates. My concern was getting the weight of the load up to effectively burn the Blue Dot completely and efficiently. I am not overly concerned with the number of pellets in the load. These are just going to be for paper shooting.

"The silver colored bases are the ones with paper base and I leave them be." --- Those are the ones I am most interested in loading. They are the ones I believe to be identical to the Top Gun, Field and Target, Game etc. that Federal makes.

[Hogtamer]

Do you burn Blue Dot for your trap loads or do you have a faster burning powder?

[M Hicks]

I use Red Dot in the trap loads. They are pushing 1 and 1/8 oz. loads.

[Hogtamer]

Your trap loads will work fine with equivalent buckshot weights. Look up the red dot load for 1 oz shot in federal hulls and the rp wads, use grits or cream of wheat as buffer, shaken down in shot cup level with top of wad after seated in hull. Those will be deadly @ 30 - 40 yds out of full choke. Good shooting!

[M Hicks]

Thanks Hogtamer. I'll give those a try also. I have the Downrange clone of WAA12 that I use with the Red Dot. I know that some mention Grits or Cream of Wheat as a buffer being taboo so to speak. I figure if I weigh everything that is going to be going down the tube I should be safe.

Do you happen to know if the Federal hulls with the paper base wad are referred to as Hi-Power in the manuals?

[dverna]

I also shoot a lot of trap and have access to a LOT of Top Gun hulls. They are fine to reload IF they have not gotten wet (paper base wad), I only load them once and I use the same data as I do for the Gold Medal hull.

Don Verna

[M Hicks]

Thanks Don. I am trying to work with what I have and so far it seems promising.

[tomme boy]

Find Remington hulls and don't look back. The Federals and the new HS AA hulls are junk. All of the Remington target hulls are the same. The Steel and buckshot are different. All the others are a one piece hull and work great. You use the same data as the nitro's or premiers.

[FullTang]

Do you happen to know if the Federal hulls with the paper base wad are referred to as Hi-Power in the manuals?
Alliant never mentions the Fed hulls with paper basewads, but you can get specific info direct from the Federal web site, including a few Blue Dot loads. If you do as Don suggests and use GM data, you'll always be safe, but sometimes the performance isn't quite as good---found this out from chronographing my loads. Lyman's has data for the paper basewad hulls, but lumps all of them together, including a lot of high-brass game loads which look quite different, but reload the same (more or less.) They're fine for one-and-done reloads. I'd consider trying to get some Fed 209A primers for your Blue Dot loads; those slow-burning powders work a lot better with hotter primers. That's another thing you find with a chrono---velocities get a lot more consistent when the powder is matched well with the load and with the right primer.

[Teddy (punchie)]

Back when I was learning and no internet to look or ask. I would look in manuals a find the company name a ID the ones I could. Cut all in half a place in a sandwich bag and if I came across a new type or style I would compare them and most are the same under a different name. Only trouble is cutting the old SP Rem Cases, they have a asbestos base in them, shot heavy load, like very well.

I use Blue dot for Heavy or Magnum loads not target of light field load. She will not burn right if shot load too light, she likes presser to burn.

Fallow the manuals shot shells are funny, and pressure can change for any change in case. Just don't load like brass casings for rifle and pistol.

[Hogtamer]

Here are a couple of 1 oz. red dot loads from an old Hercules manual I have using your components:

Federal 2 3/4 (they make estate hulls too) plastic base
Your 209 primer
RP 12 or WWAA12 (white) wad
19 grns powder = 1200 fps, 8400 psi w/wwaa12 wad, 7400psi w/rp12 wad

Same load in paper base federals (or estate) oddly enough with rp12 or 18.5 grns powder w/wwaa12 wads, slightly less psi for both.

Win. AA hull
Your primer
20 grn Red dot w/ RP 12 or 19 grn w/wwaa12
1290 fps, 10,100 psi w/RP12 or 10,500 psi w/wwaa12

all well within safe loads. D Verna is right about moisture in those paper base...any doubt and throw them out.