vintage reloading the 45-70

[bigted]

maybe should be in the loading section but I figured this was a good place to spot it as I feel maybe others have long overlooked this old timey loading procedure from yesteryear.

about 5 or maybe 6 years ago I bought a Lyman 310 setup for my 45-70. I stuck it back for the rainy day to fool with it and today seemed like as rainy a day as I am liable to see for a bit. dug it all out not knowing just how it would work as I long ago filed the directions in the round file. perfect huh?

so first off I see that the size die can be adjusted for just neck sizing ... the primer punch stem is long enough that it can be adjusted out long enough to deprime as I neck size my brass after lubing it a bit by hand.

next I adjust the case mouth flair to accept my boolits and lock it for later repeatable.

after the brass is neck sized and mouth flared I try the handy primer installation setup that comes with the die setup. worked perfectly and what a joy to use.

next I dig out my dipper that throws just about a perfect 70 grains and dip n load a case with powder.

putting the boolit on the case I shove it in to seat the boolit to the correct place ... then back off the seater and run the die body in so it crimps the case around the boolit in the correct place and the rite amount ... now run the seater down on the boolit and lock in place so it seats and crimps in the same squeeze of the nut cracker.

now as I install the powder and boolit one case at a time ... I run em into the nutcracker and seat n crimp before it gets spilled.

repeating till all my sized, flared, and primed cases were all loaded. the only thing lacking was doing this around a campfire trying to keep dust and sparks away from my process.

just thought id post here as this ... as much as any other part ... is hand in hand with the blackpowder loading in cartridges. I really do not know what took me so long to try this fun and old timey style of reloading.

if a feller had a Sharps or Rolling block or Hiwall ect ... and dressed in hearty wooly britches and an ol tin shirt as well as the hat n boots ... settin round a campfire for warmth n light ... loading cartridges for the next days hunt ... or just replenishing his supply of loaded cartridges ... I believe a feller could very well slip away into yester year and drift into the dreams of the ODG's.

I hope this post stays here and gets some reply's to your own experiences with the little Lyman 310 loading system. I intensely had a grand ol time using this loader this evening. it is a slow and steady process that requires slow deliberate progress and removes the hurry scurry of modern press and scales and ect. ect. ect.

lets hear it for the old time Lyman 310 !!! :drinks:

[montana_charlie]

When I bought my first guns, I was in the Air Force and stationed in Germany.
I also wanted to reload, but there was absolutely no place to set up a loading bench with a benchmounted press.

So, I did it with the Lyman 310 tool, and had dies for each of the calibers I shot in those days.
I had a wooden box (made to hold a set of fine silverware) that I had gutted to hold my tools, components and scale.
I traveled around a lot (as you might expect) and just carried my 'reloading box' around with me.

I probably went for twenty years before I bought my first press.

CM

[Lead pot]

I just ordered a 310 die set for the .44-77

[Bullshop]

Mine although not a true 310 but identical in function also has a mold for the 500gn Government boolit as well as a boolit sizer all in the same tool. I think but cant remember for sure without digging it out it is stamped 45 Gov. with no other markings as to who made it.
It had to have been put into service before the other 45 Gov came into use.
Oh I almost forgot too that I do have a 310 tool with all the trimmings for the 50/110 Winchester. It was given me by a good friend so recently I forgot about it. He knew I have an 1886 Win in 50 cal so when he saw it at a show he picked it up for me. I have not yet used it but hope to correct that when nice weather arrives.

[bigted]

so were the original handles built outta steel or what is now manufactured ... aluminum?

[montana_charlie]

so were the original handles built outta steel or what is now manufactured ... aluminum?
Bought mine new in '66, and the handle was aluminum.
Of course, the tool had been in existence for decades before I showed up.

CM

[Lead pot]

I cant tell what they are made of. If it is aluminum it's an alloy or pot metal. They are hard enough that the threads are holding up pretty good.

[Bent Ramrod]

The original handles for the 310 tool were made out of steel. It is thought that they were leftovers made up by Lyman from the Ideal No. 3 and No. 10 tool handles that were left in stock when production of those tools ceased. The handles were drilled and threaded for the 310 dies and the improved adjustable cartridge extractor, but were not drilled or fitted for the priming or bullet sizing stations along the tool handles. Those functions were taken over by the 310 dies. The handles were also no longer nickel plated, but blued by the hot caustic method, and being cast steel, they took the same purplish tint that inexpensive shotgun frames and Stevens No. 44 receivers do when blued by the same process.

For a while they were stamped with the caliber they were offered in, and drilled to take the base of that specific caliber. Later Lyman drilled and threaded them for the caliber specific adaptor bushings that were included in the 310 die sets, and were stamped only "S" (small), "L" (large) and (very occasionally) "Spl." This last was for an oversized 310 die set for such cartridges as the .50-110. When they ran out of these handles, they went to the aluminum ones, enameled black, that are still offered.

The "plum handles" are scarfed up by enthusiasts whenever they can find them but in point of fact they do nothing that the aluminum handles don't do except weigh more. (And look cooler.)

[bigted]

very cool ... nother question is ... what difference between the large and small handles ... in other words ... will my large handles thread and depth enable me to load 44 and 45 revolver dies?

[montana_charlie]

very cool ... nother question is ... what difference between the large and small handles ... in other words ... will my large handles thread and depth enable me to load 44 and 45 revolver dies?
With mine (and I don't remember what 'size' the handle was) I loaded 7mm Rem Mag ... which is as fat in the body as the 45/70 ... and .357 mag.

When I bought the 310 tool, I ordered it with the 7mm dies. So, if that caliber took a large handle, I suppose that is what I had.
Still, it worked fine with .357 mag (and .38 Special).

The thing about pistol cartridges ...
Your revolver needs all of it's chambers to be identical when you are only neck sizing the brass for your reloads.

CM

[.22-10-45]

I have some very early Lyman 310 tools, .22 Hornet , .38 Spec., .38-55. These are the old style nickle plated iron just like the earlier Ideal No. 3's.

[Bent Ramrod]

22-10-45,

You ought to get some pictures of them and post them here and on the ARTCA site. If Lyman had a few leftover Ideal nickeled handles and turned them into 310 tools, they must have been quite rare.

The larger nickeled 3's and 10's will fit adjustable chambers and muzzle resizers that are the same diameter and thread pitch as 310 dies. But they would not have the adjustable extractor and they would have the priming station and perhaps the bullet sizing hole and punch along the handle.

Bigted,

Some of the large handles will allow dies for smaller cartridges to screw in deep enough to be usable, and some small handles can take large dies screwed in a turn or two and have them work. It's generally a cut and try situation.

CM,

Yes, neck sizing is not without its hazards. A friend tried neck sizing only on his fired .30 Mauser cases and was plenty disgusted when they no longer would feed in his pistol. He got a press and dies at the next gun show.

[mazo kid]

Ted, thanks for writing of your experience. I do have modern presses, and truth be told, they are used most of the time. About the only times I use my 310 tool is for depriming BP cases prior to cleaning in the field. I do have several complete sets, along with several pounds of assorted dies. At one time I had a mint, in the box, set of 50-70 handles and dies. I believe they were the Special handles. Those handles were of the " alloy" type. I sold that set to a friend and realize now they command a large price. Your vision of sitting around a campfire reloading ammo reminds me of a scene in an older movie. I believe the movie was The Last Hunt, about buffalo hunters. There was a scene where the hunters were doing just as you described, except that they were probably using the Ideal tong tools. I might have to see about finding that movie again!

[bigted]

mazo ... when you locate that movie ... id be interested in the name so I could find one also ... sounds like a movie I need to own.

[StrawHat]

I have and use 310 dies and the tool for all of my rifles except the 50-70. At this point in life, my rifle cartridge needs can be handled with the 310 and time to spare! I still use a Dillon for the handgun stuff and an O frame for the 50-70. The tong tool gives me the control I need and the relaxation I seek when loading. 22 WCF, 405 WCF and 45-70, oh, add the new 22 Hornet.

[Springfield]

I have 310 tolls for 22 Hornet, 38/357, 44-40, 45 Colt and 303 British. Never used them to load, yet. I also have the Ideal tong tool for the 45-70, with the included bullet mould. I have cast with it but never loaded a complete shell with it.

97774

[RobertS]

Found this article recently while looking for something else. Author tells how he used his trapdoor springfield rifle chamber as a makeshift loading press, for priming and seating bullets. I may have to give it a try myself. Check it out:
http://www.marlinowners.com/forum/45-70-govt/25117-45-70-joe-brennan-article.html

[Hang Fire]

This is my .44-40 Lyman Ideal Tool, it has the dies to do everything for reloading the cartridge. I also have an aluminum handle one for loading .45-70 with four die set. I enjoy just sitting around and loading with them,

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010326.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/TANSTAAFL-2/media/P1010326.jpg.html)


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/P1010324.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/TANSTAAFL-2/media/P1010324.jpg.html)

The Ideal sizes the bullets to .426", which is correct for my 1886 Colt SAA.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y92/TANSTAAFL-2/TT1.jpg (http://s3.photobucket.com/user/TANSTAAFL-2/media/TT1.jpg.html)

[bigted]

very nice.

[hydraulic]

I worked for the Forest Service in the Bighorn National Forest, years ago. Had my camper parked up on the mountain, and on Saturday I'd drive down to Sheridan for groceries. I had permission to shoot prarie dogs on the Pitchfork Ranch, so I'd stop and spend an hour burning up 100 rds. of .222's with an old 722 Remington. The rest of the week I'd sit out by the campfire, evenings, and reload those 100 rds. with my 310 tool.
Hey Kurt! What did it cost you to get that custom made set of 310 dies in .44-77?

[Lead pot]

Hi Charlie, How are you and the Mrs?

The 310 shop is making a neck sizing and seating die for my chamber. $54.

[hydraulic]

We're doing well and hope you and yours are the same. CM