HazMat shipper...Striking out

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I would really like to Ship 3 metal cans of smokeless gunpowder to Texas (from Glencoe MN or nearby).

Do any of my Minnesota castboolit members know of a certified HazMat UPS shipper that might help me out ?

I tried the Gun shops nearby, and I also tried "Track of the wolf", which isn't nearby, but is a small company in the area I grew up in, and know where they are. They sell Black powder and I thought they shipped it. Turns out they drop ship from Arkansas and just sell BP "over the counter".

reference: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?139616-free-Norma-powder&p=2641860&viewfull=1#post2641860

we've sent several emails back and forth, and I can't come up with any other options. So I thought I'd reach out to the membership.

[bhn22]

Try contacting trucking companies instead. They have slightly different rules than UPS.

[Monttexan]

You can ship DG (Hazmat) over the counter at any FedEx station. Don't remember what the fees are, but it varies depending on whether it is considered accessible or inaccessible (whether or not pilots need to have access to it for in-flight safety.) I don't know for sure, but I would guess you should be able to do the same with UPS. Per IATA (International Air Transit Authority) regulations, anyone can ship DG. You just have to fill out the appropriate paperwork and have the commodity packaged per IATA regulations as stimulated for the particular commodity. FedEx being an airline they are covered by and use the IATA regulations. I assume that UPS follows them as well but I don't know that for sure. I'd strongly suggest checking with your nearest UPS station and get their help in getting the stuff packaged correctly and the paperwork filled out. They should have DG paperwork for you to fill out and sign. They won't have DG grade packaging for you to use but they should be able to help you figure out what you need and help make sure you have the paperwork in order. FedEx can help with everything except providing packaging, but it will cost more to ship with them.

[oneokie]

Check with one of the UPS drivers to ask if they know of HazMat shippers in your area.

[runfiverun]

actually I'd call the ups hub itself,, the drivers might not know all the details.
I'm not even sure most of them have a haz-mat license.

[tomme boy]

The extra $ to ship hazmat is a crock of **it. One of the companies I worked for shipped hazardous materials every day. We never charged anyone anything for it. The only thing extra was another piece of paper they had to have to say what they carried. We shipped flammable and explosive types of products. It is all made to make $ for the shipping company and the shipper. That is it.

[Bad Water Bill]

Several years ago I checked fees and quantities covered by one fee called HAZ MAT

Bass pro charged $20.00 to ship 5 # of powder or 5K primers.Cabelas shipped me over 20# from 3 different warehouses in 3 different states on 3 separate trucks for the same $20.00 fee.

I have tried to find any FEDERAL law covering a HAZ MAT fee.

I asked about the fee at a major UPS & FED EX shipping facility. the only thing they wanted was a paper saying what was in the package.

Could it be a way the sellers use to cover the higher insurance they carry for such large quantities?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Yeah, I will be going to the Local UPS Hub on Monday.

[bhn22]

I think you'll find that the HAZMAT fees are likely to have an insurance company behind them. I have worked for a number of companies in the past that charged extra for certain services simply because they could, even if it didn't require extra handling, or cost them extra in any way.

[jonas302]

Im thinking it would be better for him to drive up and pay you in cash

[oneokie]

I'm not even sure most of them have a haz-mat license.

Lot of truth in run's statement.

[jonas302]

As far as the haz-mat fees go UPS charges 28.50 for ground hazmat can be found on there website I'm sure the big shippers get a discount and they have to be contracted although I really do get a kick out of it when UPS tosses that box on the counter just like any other and takes off with out the required signature
If we get an automotive airbag shipped it needs to go hazmat but you can drive around with one in front of your face

[fryboy]

this is one of the areas that suck , i havent tried lately because i became discouraged last time i tried , i think that they make it that way on purpose and in someway to "justify" their high fees ...speculation on my part perhaps but ..oddly enough we can send loaded ammo ( orm-d ) which contains BOTH powder and primers with less hassle , oddly enough we can also send all the parts needed to make some sort of a bomb in one package but it'd be illegal to send it put together ( kind of exactly opposite eh ? ironic ? maybe ...)
it'd be neat if somehow thru our vast membership we could "piggyback" such type of deliveries , say you manage to drive from time to time 50 miles south and meet a member who goes south west 200 miles once a week who in turn meets a member going to a gun show in the next state south 2 weeks after that etc etc .....it may be slow and drawn out but sadly implementing such would be rather hard , best i can say is good luck amigo :(

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

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[Monttexan]

Yep, there are lots of regulations. If you saw a UPS driver delivering DG without a signature and from a vehicle that wasn't placarded, then he's really lucky he didn't get caught. Citations involving DG START at $10,000 and go up in a hurry. Forgot to stop at the railroad crossing in a placarded vehicle? Big fine. Didn't chock the wheels on your tractor trailer when you stopped to pee at the rest area? Here's your fine. Paperwork wasn't within arms reach when you rolled into the weigh station? Here's your fine. Your vehicle was placarded when it didn't need to be? Here's your fine. I was one of the DG specialists at the FedEx station where I worked so I have some knowledge of this stuff though I haven't dealt with it in years. There is a separation chart too that transportation companies have to worry about. You can't have explosives or flammables too close to an oxygenator. Keep the class 6.1 and 6.2 away from acids and explosives. When it's traveling by air, some things need to be accessible in case there's an emergency so they require more handling. I fully understand the frustration everyone here feels. I feel it too. A great deal of handling DG is common sense, but Gov. has it regulated, and worse it is regulated Internationally so it's like dealing with the EPA on steroids.

Don't expect every driver to know the rules either. Not all are trained to deal with DG. Usually just drivers who are on routes where they expect to handle DG have training and are licensed to transport it. Most things can be picked up and delivered without a placarded vehicle because the quantity is so small.

[35isit]

The sender or sending company must have someone haz mat certified. I worked at a Ford dealership that did not have anyone certified. We had to take airbags to another dealership that had someone certified.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

out?.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The problem has been worked out.
I'm currently waiting on funds.

[snowwolfe]

Why wouldn't shipping powder be as simple as going to FedEx or UPS and paying the hazmat fee?

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Why wouldn't shipping powder be as simple as going to FedEx or UPS and paying the hazmat fee?


The sender or sending company must have someone haz mat certified. I worked at a Ford dealership that did not have anyone certified. We had to take airbags to another dealership that had someone certified.

Thats why

[snowwolfe]

I would of thought since all my powder comes via UPS or FedEx that it would be just as easy to go back to them to ship it to a friend. Guess I was wrong. I see tons of people selling powder on Gunbrokers all the time.

[Harter66]

For what its worth I worked for a facility and that's all we shipped. Very briefly.
1.1 Placard any quantity , mass detonation TNT , bulk explosives and about 50% of explosive shells
1.2 Placard any quantity , mass projection the other half of the shells most anti person ammo claymores etc
1.3 placard any quantity , mass fire canned boxed or bagged smokeless powder and propelling charges
1.4 placard 1001 lbs or more in the field we called it gross weight the drivers wanted it by net weight and I smiled politely and said ''local fire regs, flip your placards, check your bills, it not my tiket''. Most small arms ammo up to 50 cal (up to 40mm depending on projectile type ap/ball/tracer fits incendry/ep doesn't), some training devices , some grenades (these are a whole nuther kettle of fish).

Using this guide line 3 lbs of test sample smokeless powder shipped as 1.3 full placards while a 2 pallets of 45 or 9mm required none despite them being over 7000 lbs. While Cartridge M1906 Cal 30 M2 require 1.4 for anything over 48 boxes (1 pallet of 36 and 12 or more) weighing in at 5000 lbs and 7.62 NATO gets a pass to 60 boxes. 50BMG however might be placarded as 1.1,1.3 or 1.4 depending on projectile type and they are no longer allowed to ship ready to use linked ammo because it is no longer allowed to have the tracers and incendry projectiles packed w/explosive projectiles.

Yes that really is the short version.

[Handloader109]

Shawn, NOTHING in this shipment has to be 'placarded'. Read your first page you posted, exception if the shipment is under 1001 pounds, which 3 pounds in the shipment is, there is no requirement. And all of that is irrelevant unless you are going to transport yourself. A lot of wasted electrons used here :)

[Harter66]

It is packaged smokeless powder it is 1.3 not 1.4. When it is placed in commerce any quanity shall be placarded. It goes into commerce the moment the driver or carrier excepts it for commercial transport . It is not in commerce if you or I buy it in the driveway and put it in our private vehical for our private use. Based on 18 yrs of shipping 22LR to 16'' Howie shells, oz of powder test samples to tons of granulated TNT and hand grenades to MOABs ,I could be mistaken, I have been before , but I'm pretty sure I have the over view right.

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

t ...

[Harter66]

Diesel ,
He didn't read mine either....

[Three-Fifty-Seven]

s ...

[popper]

I think most of the real regs. have been in place for a long time on commercial trans. There was a plane crash caused by inappropriate handling/storage long ago. Mostly insurance/cert. costs.

[Bad Water Bill]

I heard it was a truck that burned some time around 75-78 but that could be just another excuse.