44 mag Ruger SBH Leading

[Chapo]

I'll tell you that happened in hopes that you guys can chime in:

I got a 44 mag 5.5" barrel ruger SBH. Loaded some mild 429-214gr boolits on a Lee mold over 19.6 grains of 2400 in hopes to be a plinker. There was no load data perse for this boolit, but Lee suggested taking the load data for the next higher size. When I was done shooting my barrel was covered with lube (lee alox, which is no issue) but also leaded. Also noticed some powder pellets inside the case.

I used a lead remover with no issues but was my problem too much pressure on a .429 boolit? Should I reduce the powder charge?

[sixshot]

Sounds like your bullets might be a bit small, also could be not enough crimp. Some times it takes a bit of tinkering to get the correct fit & then that Ruger will sing like a canary.

Dick

[williamwaco]

Leading is almost always caused by bullets that are too small, and / or too hard.
Too hard and too small are a perfect storm for leading.

Your .44 mag needs bullets around .430 to .432.

Powder pellets, usually referred to as unburned powder are almost always present in those heavy 2400 loads.

If you will look at them closely under a 6 or 8 x glass, and mash them with your fingertip you will see that they are usually ash remaining from burned powder.

The only load I have used in the Ruger with LLA was 9 grains Bullseye with the Lee T430-240 SWC Tumble lube
bullet at a velocity of around 1100 fps it was sized .430. There was NO leading.

[monge]

I have that same gun and mold try them as cast just lube and load, it worked for me!

[Chapo]

thanks fellas...Monge, what powder do u use?

[Chapo]

Also, I've always wondered why would Lee publish molds say at .429 diameter when the bullets may be a bit small? Why not say the smallest should be .430-.432?

[monge]

Chapo I like Unique 10 gr is a good starting point about 900fps.

[white eagle]

try slugging the bore and checking the cylinders
fit the boolit to the gun

[44man]

Two things, the boolit is too light for a Ruger, best is 240 gr and up.
Then Alox.
My boolits are at least groove size or a tad over, from .430" to .432" but I shoot mostly full power loads--DEER ya know! I shoot until the cylinder pin needs cleaned and new STP put on but I shoot over two years without touching the bore. UNTIL I TRIED ALOX!
99% of my cleaning bores is to show patches with no lead on them to show here I have no leading. Sometimes I feel guilty and wipe the black off the outside.
A 240 or 250 gr with Unique or 231 and a good lube will be both accurate and will not lead. Your 2400 load has passed what Alox can take. Even 7 gr of Unique is fun to shoot and accurate. I see no difference from 7 to 10 gr. Both are beer can accurate to 50 yards.
I have 13 Lee size dies and that means I gave away 13 bottles of LLA. Even sent some to a fellow in Canada for just postage. I bet he hates me!

[.429]

Also, I've always wondered why would Lee publish molds say at .429 diameter when the bullets may be a bit small? Why not say the smallest should be .430-.432?

I have spoken to someone at Lee on the phone and the guy told me that Lee isn't completely on board with the .001 larger than bore theory

[44man]

I have spoken to someone at Lee on the phone and the guy told me that Lee isn't completely on board with the .001 larger than bore theory
I am not either. BUT IT DOES NO HARM unless too large. A few thousandths is OK but to say it is a MUST is wrong. It is as wrong as saying an under size boolit must be soft to obturate. The under size boolit is the problem and nothing will fix it.
The worst is when some tell you you need a boolit over throat size for under size throats. Or you need SOFT so a boolit expands after being sized by the throats.
My best groups in revolvers has been with groove, .001" or .002" over.
If you have a large throat size, you do not need to fit to them, the groove is more important. Just get a straight start to the bore.
Stuff is repeated over and over and over with no basis in fact.
I blame gun rags with writers that only advertise products.
But I am also annoyed with some here that keep repeating what does not work. However I respect them as they try.
But Lee is wrong about Alox, DON'T SEND IT WITH DIES so dies are cheaper. I DO NOT WANT IT!

[.429]

Yeah, I size some to the bore dia. And some .001 or .002 over. It just depends what works for my application. I'm having good accuracy both ways

[.429]

*and no leading. But I have not used under bore size boolits. No reason to and I trust that I would have leading if I did

[williamwaco]

I too am not on board with the .001 over bore diameter.

I get better results at .002 or .003.

Same with both rifles and handguns.

Maybe when I get a little more experience, I will wise up and see the wisdom of the .001 number. After all I have only been doing this 50 years.

[MTtimberline]

I've had excellent results with a light bullet in a Ruger for practice. I've had good accuracy with a 200 RNFP and 7.0-7.5 gr 231/HP-38 in a Vaquero. This will put it at about 1000 fps. Those were sized to .430 and traditional lube grooves. I have no experience with LLA. The same charges work equally well with 240 gr SWC for me. These are a lot of fun to shoot all day if you wanted. Then you can always go up to the full power loads with 2400 when you want them. This is what works for me.

[Airman Basic]

Two things, the boolit is too light for a Ruger, best is 240 gr and up.
Then Alox.
My boolits are at least groove size or a tad over, from .430" to .432" but I shoot mostly full power loads--DEER ya know! I shoot until the cylinder pin needs cleaned and new STP put on but I shoot over two years without touching the bore. UNTIL I TRIED ALOX!
99% of my cleaning bores is to show patches with no lead on them to show here I have no leading. Sometimes I feel guilty and wipe the black off the outside.
A 240 or 250 gr with Unique or 231 and a good lube will be both accurate and will not lead. Your 2400 load has passed what Alox can take. Even 7 gr of Unique is fun to shoot and accurate. I see no difference from 7 to 10 gr. Both are beer can accurate to 50 yards.
I have 13 Lee size dies and that means I gave away 13 bottles of LLA. Even sent some to a fellow in Canada for just postage. I bet he hates me!
I squirt a little LLA in my beeswax, paraffin, vaseline mix. But I've got my lifetime supply, too, thanks anyway. Might not do any good, but makes me feel like I'm not wasting all those little bottles of goo. Do use a right smart amount of 45-45-10 from White Label. You ever tried that stuff?

[monge]

I have shot some non lubed .002 over boolits in in my 44sp at about 800fps no leading about 6rds just to see what would happen,just little lead at cone. I think size and hardness is key lube is second for light target loads my two cents

[44man]

All of my BFR's shoot best with .001" over groove. All are .0005" under throat.
Now the Marlin lever gun needs larger with the micro groove so I use .311".
It is your gun and what it likes but a little over groove is OK. Don't matter if it likes .003" over at all.
The reason light boolits don't work good in the Ruger is twist. Maybe you can get stability but I never had a use for light, being an IHMSA shooter and then a revolver hunter.
My standards are high and I hate anything over 1" at 50 meters. I do not like light for deer.
That is where we butt heads. Maybe it is because most of my shooting is at or near max.
Like the .475 BFR, it starts to come on board at 400 gr and loves 420 gr, hates lighter. The Freedom with the slower twist loves 350 gr boolits. I have shot 1/2" groups with the Freedom and 350 gr boolits at 50 yards. As I increase boolit weight the Freedom starts to get worse but the BFR gets better.
The S&W 29 loves a 250 to 265 gr boolit. The 240 is good but rotates around the flight path and will still do 1/2" at 50.
You need to watch boolit flight with a spotting scope. I have shot better groups at 200 meters then most do at 25 yards so there is also the definition of accuracy. A few words I hate---"shoots good."
The revolver has out shot rifles, ask Rick.
The affect of a lube is so great you can pee in the weeds better.

[Salmoneye]

I have spoken to someone at Lee on the phone and the guy told me that Lee isn't completely on board with the .001 larger than bore theory

Then tell them to argue with SAAMI, as it is their specs...

[Airman Basic]

The affect of a lube is so great you can pee in the weeds better.
:???:

[monge]

Lube is very important at max velocity but at modest loads alox does work, I shoot 350gr at 1800fps out of my 45-70 lever 150 yards 11/2 all day no leading ! this is a bone breaking shock inducing load no tracking what more does one ask for in a short range load.as for my rugers they do very much in size every gun is different you must slug or pin gauge each gun.

[NSP64]

Check your cylinder throats, then slug your bore.
Look for tightness at the barrel/frame joint.

[.429]

Then tell them to argue with SAAMI, as it is their specs...

Nah, I won't be telling them. But if you'd like their #, I'll share it with u

[44man]

:???:
Yep, just changing the lube can make a gun shoot bad or make it a tack driver.
Nothing to do with leading at all so leading is not the only thing to look for. I feel that is the biggest mistake made, to only look for a lube that does not lead the gun.
Once the bore stays good, it is not where you should quit.

[detox]

Your problem is a classic

You may have two problems. You are getting gas cutting past bullet caused by bullets being sized too small and your bullets are not obturating (swelling up) when fired caused by alloy being too hard for pressure curve.

Size bullets .001-.002 oversize
Use quicker burning powder and softer alloy...especially if cylinder throats are smaller than barrels groove diameter. Keep velocity under 1000fps with soft alloy (under 12 bhn)

[kweidner]

Rugers a notorious for frame restriction check that first or it won't matter what you do. Fire lapped mine twice before I got it under control. Love my Rugers......and Dan's ......and Smiths .....and. .......well you get the picture.