Ruger SST Blackhawk Undersize

[alamogunr]

I have a Ruger stainless Bisley Blackhawk w/5.5" barrel that I bought a few years ago when I thought I needed anything new that came out. I haven't shot it because there were so many other interesting things to try out.

I finally got it out and checked the throats. They were right at .450 with plug gauges. A boolet sized .452 won't push thru but required hard taps w/ a dowell. That slug measured .4514. I apparently slugged the one chamber that passed a .451 gauge. This prompted me to slug the barrel. It is a little constricted where it screws into the frame and the slug measures .4511 with a micrometer.

I'm not sure that reaming the throats would be a good idea considering the throats match the barrel now. I could get a .451 sizer or, I could just send it off to be converted to a 5 shot .45 Colt, which I have wanted for awhile but couldn't pull the trigger. Mucho difference between a 5 shot and a size die.

Ideas??

[tacklebury]

Perhaps some lapping bullets? I know Marshall Stanton at Beartooth Bullets sells kits and if you talk with him, he may have some good ideas. 8)

[dubber123]

I'd get the cylinder reamed to .452" or so. If you felt a little frame restriction, the bore is likely larger than you recorded by a little bit. I've been working with a BH with monster .455" throats and a .452" barrel. With boolits that fit the throats, I've got it to 2" at 50 yds. and I'm rusty.

[runfiverun]

iv'e found that the stainless cylinders run a little small.
my 44 specials showed this same tendency too.
I pulled the blued cylinder and fit it into my stainless revolver and the groups shrank by half.
in the mean time the stainless cylinder in the blued gun opened the groups by about the same amount.
so the stainless cylinder is sitting there waiting for me to either cut it a tick or find someone to do it for me. [or i'll just shoot some of the 5-k jaxketed bullets I have in it and forget about it]
in your case I'd try shooting some 452 sized boolits and see what happens.
if you get some leading under the frame [or just behind it] then I'd try some lapping to open the barrel a tick right there.
if I get it in the throat of the barrel before the tight spot I'd look at opening the cylinders and making them a bit more even.

[detox]

Or you can use a softer alloy such as 20-1 lead tin and a good soft lube such as LBT soft Blue or 50/50. A quicker burning powder such as Red Dot will help also. This combo should work without opening throats.

The RCBS 230gr Cowboy bullet shoots most accurate in my 45LC BackHawk using 9.0gr of Tin Star N32C

http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/4,1436.html

[ClemY]

I have a number of .45 NMBHs that were undersized. My .44 Rugers, both Redhawk and SBH were about .431". My Dan Wesson 744 was the small .44. Plug gages showed it to be .428-.429". I reamed it to .431" and it is the most accurate .44 I have. The .45s all benefitted from being opened up. The .45s had throats that were oval, tapered, S shaped, you name it. They were tight enough that when they were reamed, they came out pretty uniform and shot a lot better.

[MT Gianni]

The throats only fit the bbl where the restriction is. The rest of it the constriction has them undersized no matter the throats. IMO, you have two area that need attention.

[alamogunr]

The throats only fit the bbl where the restriction is. The rest of it the constriction has them undersized no matter the throats. IMO, you have two area that need attention.

I've been chewing on this for the last several days and trying to find a nearby smith that could ream the cylinder throats. If I can get the throats reamed to .4525, then I could try firelapping to open up the constriction at the frame.

Any idea how many shots it might take? I've got some of Veral Smith's lapping compound that I've never tried to use.

[dubber123]

I've been chewing on this for the last several days and trying to find a nearby smith that could ream the cylinder throats. If I can get the throats reamed to .4525, then I could try firelapping to open up the constriction at the frame.

Any idea how many shots it might take? I've got some of Veral Smith's lapping compound that I've never tried to use.

If it's a decent restriction, I'd count on at least 40, the Ruger barrel steel seems tougher than some. I have heard their stainless is worse. The last blued one I did required just about 100 rounds to cure it's several tight spots. It turned a leading, so-so shooter into one that will shoot 1,400 fps. with a plain base, WW boolit into 2" or less at 50 yds., and not lead any more than requires a tight patch to clean out. No brushing.

[alamogunr]

Thanks! Hopefully, I can find a smith that can ream my cylinder. When we get some decent dry weather I'll be ready

[MtGun44]

If you want .4525, ream to .4515 and polish or lap the last .001, reaming leaves a
fairly rough surface that needs to be polished.

Bill

[C. Latch]

www.cylindersmith.com.

I can't believe nobody's posted that yet. I sent him my .45 cylinder (same gun as yours, same problems, in both cylinder and barrel) before ever firing a shot. I think it was $40something dollars round trip.

[alamogunr]

Thanks, Bill. I hadn't thought of that since I'm not a machinist and it has been several years since Cylindersmith reamed a cylinder for me. I wish he still did this work. I would just box it up and send it to him.

Edit: C. Latch posted while I was composing this.

[alamogunr]

www.cylindersmith.com.

I can't believe nobody's posted that yet. I sent him my .45 cylinder (same gun as yours, same problems, in both cylinder and barrel) before ever firing a shot. I think it was $40something dollars round trip.

How long ago was that? I just clicked on your link and all I got was a blank screen.

[C. Latch]

Hmmm.

He did mine sometime last summer. Screen is blank for me too. :(

[C. Latch]

I dug up his email address. It couldn't hurt to email him.

cas@cylindersmith.com

[dubber123]

I emailed him about doing a .357 for me recently. He responded very quickly, but told me he no longer does that caliber. I'm not sure if he dropped any other calibers. The .45's seem to have the majority of the issues, so I would think that it would still be on the list.

[kweidner]

I would lap first and see what the outcome is. You will slightly lap throats in the process. Hate to spend $ to get throats where you want them and then open them up more in the firelapping process.

[John 242]

I'm trying to figure out what comes first, the chicken or the egg... or in this case, reaming the throats or fire lapping the barrel constriction?

It would make sense to ream the throats first, because undersized bullets won't effectively lap the constriction. Bill say's to leave .001 for lapping the reamer marks away... That makes sense.

However, in order to skin this cat, don't we need to know what the bore diameter is forward of the barrel constriction or are we assuming that it's about .452?
Just trying to understand what going on. Thanks.

Also, any tutorials on making your own fire-lapping bullets, such as what sort of lapping compound, grit, jacketed bullets, WW or pure lead, light or moderate pressure loads? Again, thanks.

[alamogunr]

I'm trying to figure out what comes first, the chicken or the egg... or in this case, reaming the throats or fire lapping the barrel constriction?

It would make sense to ream the throats first, because undersized bullets won't effectively lap the constriction. Bill say's to leave .001 for lapping the reamer marks away... That makes sense.

However, in order to skin this cat, don't we need to know what the bore diameter is forward of the barrel constriction or are we assuming that it's about .452?
Just trying to understand what going on. Thanks.

Also, any tutorials on making your own fire-lapping bullets, such as what sort of lapping compound, grit, jacketed bullets, WW or pure lead, light or moderate pressure loads? Again, thanks.

Wouldn't firelapping only affect the constriction? At least until the constriction was relieved to the diameter of the next smallest part of the barrel.

[C. Latch]

Wouldn't firelapping only affect the constriction? At least until the constriction was relieved to the diameter of the next smallest part of the barrel.

As I understand it, you can't touch the choke in the barrel until you get rid of the cylinder throat tightness. And, then, as you lap out the choke, you do next to nothing to the rest of the barrel as the lapping grit wears down in the choked portion.

[dubber123]

As I understand it, you can't touch the choke in the barrel until you get rid of the cylinder throat tightness. And, then, as you lap out the choke, you do next to nothing to the rest of the barrel as the lapping grit wears down in the choked portion.


Correct, shooting lapping boolits through throats that are smaller than the tightest portion of the barrel will do little or nothing to the constriction. I just got done putting 100+ through a badly constricted .45 BH, and even in this marathon lapping session I could detect VERY little increase in throat diameter. I finally got the majority of the choke out, the bore now looks like a mirror, it just barely leads with plain base boolits at 1,400+ fps., and it cut groups at 50 yds. in half.

[alamogunr]

I guess I should have said that I meant fire lapping after reaming the throats. Also I haven't forgotten Bill"s(MtGun44) recommendation to ream .001 under desired dia. and polish the rest.

[TXGunNut]

How does it shoot?

[alamogunr]

How does it shoot?

I only shot it once about 5-6 years ago. I just picked it out of the back of the safe a couple of weeks ago. The weather here in TN has not been conducive to going to the range. At my age, my enthusiasm doesn't outweigh my desire for comfort. Right now, ice is forming on the trees. Hopefully, none of them will fall.

[Ruger45Bisley]

On my 5.5" stainless Bisley I sent both the ACP and Colt cylinder to get reamed correctly by CylinderSmith, then I ran a whole bunch of lapping boolits down the tube using Beartooths lapping Kit, order several boxes of bullets, you'll need them. But it does shoot better now!

[JimA]

Both my SS Bisley and Flattop .45 convertables had variously undersized throats. When Cylindersmith reamed all 4 throats to .4525 they were much improved.

[alamogunr]

On my 5.5" stainless Bisley I sent both the ACP and Colt cylinder to get reamed correctly by CylinderSmith, then I ran a whole bunch of lapping boolits down the tube using Beartooths lapping Kit, order several boxes of bullets, you'll need them. But it does shoot better now!

Why would I need to "order" boolets? Why would not a soft .45 cal unsized boolet work, as long as it would chamber? If it wouldn't chamber, size it and depend on the soft alloy to obturate.

[dubber123]

Why would I need to "order" boolets? Why would not a soft .45 cal unsized boolet work, as long as it would chamber? If it wouldn't chamber, size it and depend on the soft alloy to obturate.

They don't need to be that soft, air cooled WW's is perfect. At the speeds you will be shooting them, obturation won't occur. I've never chronoed them, but 400 fps, is probably in the ballpark.. All you need is boolits, some valve lapping compound, (I use 320 grit), and a pair of steel plates to roll them between to embed the grit.