.225 Winchester and rivals

[blixen]

I've been shopping for a small-bore rifle to use for cast boolits.
I don't have much money, but I've come across a .222 Rem. and a .225 Winchester--both in Savage Model 340 (I own a 30-30 340). Both are at a reasonable price.

The .225 intrigues me--i like rimmed cartridges--but I'm a little worried about finding inexpensive brass and dies.

Which would be the best for casting? And is there much difference between them?

[Bullshop]

""""to use for cast boolits."""
222 Better adjusted case volume and desirable neck length

[Bullshop Junior]

Id get the 222. Brass will be easy to make from 223.

[frnkeore]

I have both calibers but, I haven't shot cast in either. I can tell you that the brass for the 225 isn't easy to come by. I got 120 with my rifle when I bought it but, I don't think that I've seen any brass, I have seen a couple of boxes of loaded in 4 years at gun shows.

Brass is easy for the 222 and as said above, it has a longer neck and also, better throating.

Frank

[blixen]

Thanks.
Go figure, I checked at my local gun store and they have new but dusty RCBS dies and brass for the .225 but neither for the .222! In fact, the .225 brass is virtually the only brass in stock. One of the oddities of the run on ammo and odd-ball calibers, I guess.
Can you make .225 brass from 30-30?
I like that the .225 takes large rifle primers, btw.

You're right about the neck length, though.

[Bullshop]

I believe the parent case for the 225 Win is the 220 swift.

[Bullshop Junior]

I believe the parent case for the 225 Win is the 220 swift.

219 zipper.

[Uncle Jimbo]

I believe the parent case for the 225 Win is the 220 swift.

The .225 Winchester cartridge was introduced in 1964 by the Winchester Repeating Arms Company.

Based on the .219 Zipper case but with a reduced rim diameter to fit the common .473" bolt face, it was intended as a replacement for the .220 Swift cartridge.

[Mk42gunner]

Since the .225 is based on the .219 Zipper, in theory you could make it from .30-30 brass; with enough effort, dies and a lathe or some other way to turn down the rim diameter. Not really something I would want to try to do without expecting to lose a big percentage of cases.

It would be much easier to buy .222 brass or even form it from .223/ 5.56mm if necessary.

Robert

[beagle]

Man, is that a chore. I had a .219 Ackley Improved Zipper about 15 years back and made about a hundred cases from .30/30. Never again. But saying that, the High Wall I had in .219 AIZ handled cast just fine at cast velocities. Needed a lot of work so I kept it for about a year and let it slide on off./beagle

[wch]

[QUOTE=blixen;2646267]I've been shopping for a small-bore rifle to use for cast boolits.
I don't have much money, but I've come across a .222 Rem. and a .225 Winchester--both in Savage Model 340 (I own a 30-30 340). Both are at a reasonable price.

The .225 intrigues me--i like rimmed cartridges--but I'm a little worried about finding inexpensive brass and dies.


I have a 225 Winchester and two wildcats built on that cartridge and in my experience there's no such thing as cheap dies or brass.

[nanuk]

I have some single shots that I want to ream to 225Win

my plan is to then use a 30-30 sized rim cutter to open the rim to allow use of 30-30 brass.

I'm not sure how that'd work in a 340, but as a 340 was chambered in 30-30, it "May" work will little extra work on feeding the larger rim.

[rintinglen]

Use-able .225 brass is easily made from 30-30 brass. Anneal neck and shoulder, re-size, trim and turn case rim. You may have to ream the necks. load light and fire form. A drill press and a file will work to turn the rim, and a 30-06 shell holder will work just fine as a gauge. This is some what tedious, (Ok, a lot tedious), but helpful when the brass merchants can't meet your needs.

All that said, I'd by the 222 in a heart beat and never look back. 223 brass is dirt common and easily transforms into 222. Resize, trim, chamfer =DONE. The smaller case capacity will help when loading cast too.

[leadman]

I had a 223Rem Contender barrel rechambered to 225 Win. I could not even get to the same velocity as the 223 when cases would start getting sticky. Guess this is why SSK blows the shoulder out to make an improved style case.

If it was my choice I would buy the 222.

[blixen]

In my search for a centerfire .22, I had pretty much ruled out the .225 I located for two reasons 1. It's hard to find brass for. 2. It is in a Savage 340 which doesn't allow much trigger work and has that odd barrel band. (Actually, this .225 winchester seems better made than my 30-30 Stevens equivalent.)

But the seller cut the price radically and I figured it was too good to pass up. It's in good condition, particularly the bore and has a nice walnut stock. It has a about 4.5 pound trigger.

I have found .225 unfired brass and RCBS dies at a reasonable price. And I'll have to buy a scope mount. (The rear leaf sight is broken.) And a boolit mold.

Of course, until I fire it--which will require me to buy dies and brass--it's a pig in a poke. Knock on wood, etc.

Thanks to all for helping me chew through this.

[CastingFool]

Blixen, I have 40 225 cases. A friend found them at his house when he first purchased it. They look like in good shape, but they have been fired. If you're interested, send me a pm. CF

[JTCoyoté]

I have some single shots that I want to ream to 225Win

my plan is to then use a 30-30 sized rim cutter to open the rim to allow use of 30-30 brass.

I'm not sure how that'd work in a 340, but as a 340 was chambered in 30-30, it "May" work will little extra work on feeding the larger rim.

The smaller capacity .222 would likely be the best choice for cast bullets... but for jacketed slugs you can't beat the .225 Winchester.

I like the rimmed .225 Winny 'cause it works really well in my single shot... I have made a "few" cases from .30-30s over the years... real easy if you have a small lathe, neck sizing dies for a 7mm and a .243, as well as a full length .225 sizing die / reloading set... and a .223 neck reamer.

You cut the 30-30 down from 2.028" fired length to 1.939", it will shrink in forming to about 1.937" and loose about .009" when the head is trimmed to 1.928"). You run the neck of the shortened .30-30, up into the 7mm neck sizer to where the top of the rim is 1.65" from the base of the neck... next run it up into the .243 die to the same point... and finish it up in the full length .225 sizer. You do all of this using a .30-30 shell holder.

The next 3 operations are lathe simple... Chuck the case up in the 3 jaw, turn the rim down from .500" to .468"-.472" diameter. Then face the head .007" to .009", depending on the make of the case, to a rim thickness of .047" to .049"... This will not only give the proper rim thickness, but it removes the .30-30 head stamp as well. Now you're ready to run your primer pocket reamer into the pocket the same amount you removed from the head so your primer will set properly... I only go in about .005" since I use the shorter large magnum pistol primers in my "home-brew" .225 Winny cases. Finally, ream the neck ID if needed, anneal the shoulder and neck, and you're ready to load.

Only a small amount of fire forming is apparent at the shoulder... once you get your shop rhythm down you can make 20 cases in about an hour... I use a load of 33.5 grains of H-414 and a 55gr. PSP to form the case... which gives a fairly accurate 3300fps and produces a perfect .225 Winchester case...

My most accurate load with a fully formed case is 36.5gr. of H-414 with a 55gr HPBT... it gives nickle sized groups at 100 yards if I do my part, at a muzzle velocity of 3575 fps... It instantly "geysers" 16oz. water filled soda bottles at 300 yards with a mid-range trajectory just 3" or so... set the 200 yard sighted cross-hairs on the cap, 'n' squeeze...

Here's a couple of pics...

Coyoté

[frnkeore]

That's a beautiful stock set on your rifle :)

My 225 is built on a High Wall with a close couple DST. I didn't build it, I bought it at a gun show. It has a 15 twist barrel (measured) and I don't know the barrel maker but, it shoots. My best load is 33.0 gr of Varget with a 55 gr V-Max bullet. It will shoot 1/2" groups @ 100 yards. I have H414, I'll try your load, too.

The rifle in my Avatar is simular but, it's a 30/40 with SST.

Frank
112924

[JTCoyoté]

Frank,

The wood on your little High Wall ain't too shabby itself...

You will like that H-414 load, it's fairly easy on the brass. I use it for both 52 and 55 grain boat tails. I use a medium roll crimp and CCI magnum primers... LMRP with the factory brass and LMPP in the "30-30 Home brew" cases.

My .225 Martini has a 1 - 15" twist in it's heavy 24" barrel as well... The trigger is a much polished and labored over helical sear with lightened spring, just enough spring to set it... "Double D" shot it a couple of times a few years back... the first squeeze prompted him to say... "I have never felt such a trigger. It doesn't snap. It doesn't pull. It doesn't drag. Its like its attached to your finger!"

I took that to mean that he liked my trigger-work... Anyway it has a new scope now a bit shorter in length with rings that don't stand so proud. It has a bit longer eye relief, placing the eyepiece about 1.5" further forward, and a 50mm objective, more light grasp for these old eyes...

Read the link below for the story behind the quote... Oh, the reason we weren't able to hit anything that day was, the scope's reticle had worked loose on the 900+ mile drive up to Doug's place.

http://britishmilitariaforums.yuku.com/topic/6714/Rock-Chucking-At-Rim-Rock-Part-1#.U-cMVqN2HFx

Coyoté

[JTCoyoté]

Here are a couple of pics showing the neck sized and rim trimmed 30-30 case ready for fire forming to .225 Winchester...

113497 113498 113499

Coyoté

[Pirate69]

This may not be of any help but I will offer it anyway. I bought a Model 70 Winchester chamber in 225 in the early "70s. It had a unertial target scope on it. It also had a bull barrel. It has been one of the best rifles I have shot in my life and has produced groups that I am proud of. I do not know if it will shoot cast, but the 225 will shoot jackets. Food for thought.

[257]

I have 3 rifles in 225 win mod 70 /highwall/sav 340 they all shoot unbelievable groups 5 shots the size of a dime at 100 yards I hand load every thing for these 3 guns I have forming die for 30-30 to 225 it can be a pain in the butt plus trimming the rim is time consuming I bought 500 new w-w brass last fall for 1.00 each have found lots of used at gun shows for cheap. most the time if I find new brass it's 50 to 60 dollars per 100

[saleen322]

I too have a 225 Win, a 340 Savage. Brass is a little tougher to find but I always find it with a little looking around. I am pretty sure Winchester still makes seasonal runs of it. Good shooting round with case capacity close to a 22-250.