S&W 500 -- 330gr -- Lil' Gun Loads

[want500]

Hi everyone,

I can't seem to find any info anywhere on the proper load for a 330gr flat nose lead cast bullet on a S&W 500 cartridge with Lil Gun. The bullet has no gas check and the maker recommends I keep it under 30,000 psi. I looked up the load data for Lil Gun and it's over 40,000psi with 40 grains.

Most of the load data is listed for Trail Boss, which is totally out of stock everywhere. I just have Lil Gun on hand and am wondering if anyone has loaded this with a 330gr flat nose non-gas checked bullet. This will be fired out of a 8" S&W 500 as well.

On another note...is there a more "universal" powder for the 500? I just started reloading this (or want to rather) cartridge and I'm loading 330, 440, and 700 grain bullets. I was wondering if there was one preferred or most popular powder for these bullets on the 500 so I could just stick to buying one kind of powder -- that way I can find the load data more easily.

Thank you!

[Master_Mechanic]

I have used unique and h110 for my 500 loads, the unique is more of a light load and the h110 is more full power. I am pretty sure i read somewhere about lil gun not being a great powder for 500 loads.

[want500]

Thanks Master_Mechanic...I keep reading Lil' Gun burns too hot and causes premature forcing cone erosion...I might just save it for my higher grain loads.

How many grains of Unique or H110 do you use in a 330grain bullet with no GC?

[Master_Mechanic]

I haven't loaded a boolit that size and I'm not sure off the top of my head, I would suggest a good loading manual or check out the powder manufactures site for load data. Lil gun g a hot powder you would want to use for light target loads. General rule is the hotter the load the slower burning powder you would use.

[want500]

Gotcha, there's no load data from manufacturers or in any book I've looked (went to the gun store to look). Oh well, I guess I'll hold off and go find the right powder.

[Lloyd Smale]

with the large capasity a 500 smith has it would be the last place id fool with lil gun in. Your asking for forcing cone troubles in the future.

[Clay M]

I use 2400 in my 500 S&W .It can be reduce to mild starting loads unlike many of the ball powders.

[want500]

with the large capasity a 500 smith has it would be the last place id fool with lil gun in. Your asking for forcing cone troubles in the future.

The guy at the reloading store recommended it to me :( -- Any better recommendations?


I use 2400 in my 500 S&W .It can be reduce to mild starting loads unlike many of the ball powders.

Thanks! Will see if I can find that in stock.

[mrvmax]

I have used Trail Boss, H110, 2400, 4895 and one other powder that I cannot recall right now. Look up John Ross on this forum and on the web, he has plenty of info posted.

[freedom475]

This has a lot of good info.

I really like Unique for the loads that you seek. The gas-check or even a copper jacket will make little difference at recuced pressure loadings....Just maintain data that fits your bullets weight within +/-10grains of bullet weight
http://www.reloadammo.com/500sw.htm

[Lloyd Smale]

yup try 110/296, aa9. h4227 all will give you near the same velocity (especially 110/296) and with alot less heat. Personaly i wouldnt use lilgun in ANY of my guns anymore. If you doubt it shoot 6 quick shots with lilgun loaded and then 6 with 110 or 4227 and youll see the differnce.
The guy at the reloading store recommended it to me :( -- Any better recommendations?



Thanks! Will see if I can find that in stock.

[TiteWadShooter]

listen to mrvmax, look up "John Ross 500 load data". You'll see loads using slow burning rifle powders.

[Lloyd Smale]

I know that 4198 was one of john linebaughs favorite powders in the 500 max which is close to the same.
listen to mrvmax, look up "John Ross 500 load data". You'll see loads using slow burning rifle powders.

[osteodoc08]

I use Lil Gun all the time in my 41 Mag wheel guns and lever actions. Just like the 357, Forcing cone erosion accelerated when driving very light bullets at warp speed. I use it in my heavy for caliber loadings. I've used probably 3-4# of it in my M57, I havent noticed any abnormal wear. Calculating the # of loads that would be about 1000 to 1250 rounds. Not an extensive test, but not just a few either. Not counting the gobs of W296 and 231 I've used in it.

That being said, I'm sure someone will post the warnings of Bob Baker of Freedom Arms. He warns against its use at all. This came from a client that was using it in his FA 83 in 454. Of course they have their own recommended loadings and I'm sure the Lil Gun was ran up there in pressure and velocity until it was "unrecommended" IIRC, he tested the LilGun and looked at the forcing cone under magnification and determined abnormal wear patterns.

Using any ball/sperical powder with light for caliber loads or at warp speed is going to accelerate wear. Duh. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out. Of course in a lever action, this is a non issue. I get better velocity out of LilGun than any other powder I've tested in my 41 Mag including W296 in my lever actions.

LilGun is also the wrong powder if your wanting a leisurly launch out of your 500, hence, the non GC boolits. I think in this case TrailBoss or similar would be right up your alley.

[Bonz]

VV N105 is great in my 500 S&W but also use PowerPistol

[Whiterabbit]

I have used Trail Boss, H110, 2400, 4895 and one other powder that I cannot recall right now. Look up John Ross on this forum and on the web, he has plenty of info posted.

OK, I want to know how you got 4895 to work. heavy bullets only? light only? how did you not end up with unburned powder all over the barrel?

[freedom475]

I use Lil Gun all the time in my 41 Mag wheel guns and lever actions.
.


Seems no-one wants to give up on LilGun...even after it was PROVEN to detroy guns.

I shot lots of it too, still have 4-5lbs of it...but as soon as I heard it was shown (by a major weapons manufacture) to destroy guns I got very scared...powder is just way too cheap and Lilgun never did anything that 296/h110 can't do.

[singleshot]

Freedom475,

Was this post meant to be in blue text?

[olafhardt]

6.4 grains of Unique manages to get the 365 grain Lee modern minie out the barrel of my Handirifle and down the range. You can load it backwards to be the world's largest hollow point.

[lar45]

I know that it's not pressure tested load data, but...
I really like QuickLoad. http://www.neconos.com/index.html
It's a great tool for playing what if with various bullet/powder combinations. All you need is the bullet length, weight and loaded length. You will always want to check it against published data, if availible, and some common sence.

[bigboredad]

If you haven't checked hogdons sight they have listings for a 325g bullet. I like long shot for medium loads in the big boomers. It does tend to get lost in the big 500 case so check and double check before putting your bullet on top

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Thanks Master_Mechanic...I keep reading Lil' Gun burns too hot and causes premature forcing cone erosion...I might just save it for my higher grain loads.

How many grains of Unique or H110 do you use in a 330grain bullet with no GC?


I have used unique and h110 for my 500 loads, the unique is more of a light load and the h110 is more full power. I am pretty sure i read somewhere about lil gun not being a great powder for 500 loads.

I save my lil'gun for my "little gun" (22 hornet).

I'm with Master_Mechanic on unique and h110 for the 500.
I load a 385gr Balisticast RF PB with 17gr of Unique.
I load the Lee 440gr RF with GC with H110, I don't recall the load right now.

[want500]

Thanks guys! Really informative.

I'm still stuck with only lil' gun for now... I tried 40 grains over a 325grain jacketed Hornady and it went fine.

I have one general question for you experience reloaders....how much can you down load a powder charge until you risk getting a squib? Say the recommended load is 40 grains, can you go as low as 30gr as a general rule of thumb? Or maybe 10%? Or is it too different from powder to powder to have a rule of thumb.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

some powders, like H110 or W-296, downloading below the manufacturer's data is a NO-NO. I wouldn't hazard a GUESS about Lil'gun and downloading, as I have no idea.
Trial Boss or Unique would be my suggestions if you want to go lower than the book.

[dnotarianni]

Lil-gun, H-110, 296 can only be downloaded if you fill the case to 90-95%. I have downloaded H-110 and Lil-gun by putting in the charge I want and adding a 1/2" cardboard disc over the powder followed by 410 felt wads to take up all the space in the case. Your results may vary. Lot easier to just use Unique. I load a 350gr over 20gr Unique and a 475gr over 16gr Unique with no fillers. Download as you like with Unique. Problem with some powders is a light charge just lays flat in the case when you fire and the primer either causes a fizzle where the bullet gets stuck in the barrel or a detonation where you need to buy a new gun and a prosthetic hand.
Dave

[44man]

My friend is shooting my 440 gr for the JRH out of his S&W .500 with full loads of 296, it is a PB just water dropped. Best boolit for the JRH. My .475 uses a PB.
I have taken a PB to over max in the .454 and they shot good.
But we have not shot a light boolit.
I would think 2400 would be a good choice.
I sure don't worry about a PB anymore. Just keep it tough enough.

[Ghost101]

I tried using LiGun with a 460gr FN, in my .500 S&W. Noticed that there appeared to be some flame cutting of the top strap. Don't remember the load, don't need to as I stopped using it.

Ghost101

[Changeling]

I "think" that all those individuals argueing the virtues of "Lil Gun" should not heed the warnings of individuals with 20 to 30 or more years of experience shooting "Hand Cannons" it's there thing!
What the Heck do they know? You young guys in the know should just keep doing what you have been doing, since you have thourghly investigated the powder, why listen to anyone young/old guys. Problem solved!!:bigsmyl2: