A pan lube question

[George Mabry]

I'm new to bullet casting and so far things have gone surprisingly well. The only lubing I've tried is tumble lubing with LLA but I want to try pan lubing. My question is, once I pan lube and resize, will I need to re-lube again like you do if you're tumble lubing? My gut feeling is that I don't need to but I thought I'd throw it out here and see what you guys think. Thanks

George

[randyrat]

Size first then pan lube...don't worry you won't need much lube to size most boolits..bring them down a couple Ks is not that hard to do unless the boolits are hard as a rock. I've sized lots of boolits without lube.
Tip for better stick= Heat your boolits with/ as you melt the lube

[runfiverun]

the pan lube should stay in the lube groove.
if you are thinking about pan lubing a tumble lube boolit forget it.
I have done it in my lube sizer and it just doesn't do much more than make a circular spot where the boolit rides on a blotch of lube in the barrel.

[fryboy]

depends upon how you remove the boolit from the lube , many use a cutter and then size after , this cleans the boolit ( so to speak ) as it sizes , lube on the base and nose should be cleaned off of course , myself i prefer the "whack it crack it " method , i first size then lube and then crack it out of the cake , usually they need no cleaning for me ( except bevel bases ) either way if the lube doesnt stay in the groove they need relubed , a good lube usually does stay
, i think in essence your question of " do i need to relube " is no , the LLA and regular lube work differently , regular lube works by "pumping action" and LLA by covering the bearing bands

[George Mabry]

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to answer my question. My tumble lube with LLA came off without a hitch. I had no leading and I shoot fairly soft .45 acp over 4.2 grains of bullseve. The bullets test out with a SAECO rating of 7-8. One thing I want to try is to tumble lube, resize, then relube with Johnson Paste Wax and see what difference that makes as opposed to just relubing with LLA after the resizing.

I hope to make my first attempt at pan lubing this weekend. There are a ton of receipts for homemade lube so I just picked one and decided to go with the 50%-50% beeswax/petroleum jelly with a touch of STP formula. That doesn't seem to have killed anybody.

thanks again, George

[runfiverun]

you could bolster that lla by making or buying some 45/45/10 lube.
it's super simple to use [just like lla] but it's more robust.

[George Mabry]

I've seen that 45-45-10 mentioned before. What exactly is that? And is it a tumble lube or pan lube?

[rsrocket1]

Top of the stickies! (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?67654-Tumble-Lubing-Made-Easy-amp-Mess-Free)
It's a tumble lube that dries like a firm wax coating. Powder will just brush off and it won't stick to your fingers when loading the bullets. It does get on the seating stem if you use too much. Just like LLA, all you need is a light haze on the boolits.

[George Mabry]

disregard my question RunfiveRun. I found a sticky that gives excellent instructions on what it is and how to use it.

[fryboy]

i didnt care much for LLA straight , while part was i detest the alox smell th erest was it always seemed tacky and rarely dried , the 45-45-10 version ( that i simply call "recluse's recipe" - if you've ever watched the waltons ... lolz ) is much much more better !!! especially for low demand loads like the 45 acp and 38 wadcutters ! it'll handle alot more than i usually give it tho as i've sometimes shot a lil 225-415 out of various .22's at up to around 2100-2200 fps with nary a hitch , to be fair those werent with soft alloy ( straight lino )

[44man]

I pan lube before sizing and made my Kake Cutter to fit over un crimped GC's. Good lube stays in TL boolits just fine and I never TL them, I use a good lube on them, they shoot better.
Had a guy come here all the time for me to load hundreds of .38's for him. I got tired of the lube thing so I used Alox the next time. It worked! He never came back. [smilie=1:

[mdi]

I have pan lubed for a few years now, don't care for additional equipment; lubersizer ($$$ initial outlay, and punches and dies for every bullet $$). I use an oven to heat bullets and lube to same temp., and cut the bullets out of the cake with home made cutters. I lube first then size, which keeps the bullets cleaner. Works on all the bullets I cast (even T/L design)...

[George Mabry]

...and cut the bullets out of the cake with home made cutters...

How did you make your home-made cutter? On some YouTube videos I've watched, it looks like they are able to just poke the bullets out of the cake with the flat end of a pencil.

[runfiverun]

a cake cutter is just a tube slightly larger than the boolit.
it just cuts the boolit from the lube cake.

[mwc]

I finely found a good use for a golf club, I cut it down in sections where it is swedged to different sizes to make it taper, the different sizes work for different calibers , use a spent shell case and drill out the flash hole so that a 16 penny nail slides thru epoxy or glue the case in one end of your section of golf club, insert the nail and put a cork or block of wood on the point for a handle.http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg509/mchapman60/reloading/P2220202.jpg (http://s1241.photobucket.com/user/mchapman60/media/reloading/P2220202.jpg.html)http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg509/mchapman60/reloading/P2220198.jpg (http://s1241.photobucket.com/user/mchapman60/media/reloading/P2220198.jpg.html)

[mwc]

You can also use the handle part of the club to make a moon clip unloading tool, if anyone shoots with moon clips.http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg509/mchapman60/reloading/P2220211.jpg (http://s1241.photobucket.com/user/mchapman60/media/reloading/P2220211.jpg.html)http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg509/mchapman60/reloading/P2220207.jpg (http://s1241.photobucket.com/user/mchapman60/media/reloading/P2220207.jpg.html)

[freebullet]

I use Felix lube hardened a touch with extra bees wax & carnuba. I size the boolits with push through dies. Stand them in silicon baking pans from the thrift store and pour the lube in the space I didn't put boolits. As soon as it hardens to the touch I remove the entire lube block boolits and all from the pan. Then push them through the back and they all come out near perfect.

[L Ross]

George, do you even need to size the bullets? I pan lube with Bullshop's NASA, never need a cake cutter, just push the out of the cake with a finger, (padded with pointy rifle bullets), and shoot as cast. Over the years I have had many more problems with bullets being too small than those needing to be sized smaller.

Duke

[mdi]

How did you make your home-made cutter? On some YouTube videos I've watched, it looks like they are able to just poke the bullets out of the cake with the flat end of a pencil.
I haven't had a lot of success punching bullets outta the cake. Prolly the lube I use and I haven't done a lot of research on correct temperature for punching. I found some stainless steel tubing and reamed the ID to a few thousandths larger than bullet diameter. I tapered one end to a sharp edge and rounded the other end for comfort. Mine are about 8" long. I have a small dowell about 1" longer than the tube and punch the bullets out of the tube with my thumb. Some use a fired case to cut bullets out and if you search you'll find a bunch of different methods of using "cake/cookie cutters"...

[George Mabry]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

I finished collecting all the supplies I'll need to pan lube. The last item I found was a $10.00 hot plate. If the weather is not too miserable tomorrow I'll get out in the garage and give it a go. I've got 2-3 different recipes I want to try. I'll try pushing the bullets out of the cake and if that fails I'll get to work on a cutter. Thanks for the tips on that.

Duke: I've been casting with a Lee .452 mould. The first 200 rounds cycled just fine without sizing but the second batch of 200 or so rounds had about 5 that failed to fully seat. A couple of those were stuck so back I had to ram a rod down the barrel to open the action back up. Since that episode, I've sized all my casts.

thanks again to everyone. I've enjoyed this whole experience of casting and lubing as much as I enjoy the shooting. It's a great hobby/sport we have here.

George

[fryboy]

this helped me a bit and is what i refer to as "whack it crack it " playing with the temp was my final key ( g'luck )

http://goatlips.hrillc.com/goatlipstips.cas-town.com/panlubing.html

[George Mabry]

Thanks Fryboy. That is going to be my first method to try.