35 Whelen, 358 Winchester, or 9.3x62

[Jevyod]

It looks like I might be doing a build sometime in the near future! The problem is, I am not sure what caliber. The 3 that I listed in the title are the ones that I am looking at pretty hard. Some things I am considering; I will be casting for it, so it should accept cast pretty well. Another thing, I really am not a big fan of a lot of extra recoil. I will make sure it fits properly, so I believe it wont be that big of a deal. But I am definitely not looking for a magnum thumper! Also, I want something that can easily take an elk or moose at 200-300 yards. I am hoping to achieve speeds of 2200+ fps. So if it were you, which one would you build? The one that is looking very attractive at this point is the 358 Winchester. I am open to persuasion!

[waksupi]

Stick with the .358 Win. The others are fine, but both are over bore.

[Bullshop Junior]

The 358 is gonna be hard to beat with what you want it for.

[dragon813gt]

358 is the winner in that group w/ what you want to do w/ it. I have no experience w/ it yet. But will shortly.

[shooter93]

Very hard to beat the 358 Winchester as mentioned.....but I love the 9.3x62 myself. Thump enough for anything and recoil is fine. Neck is a bit short though like the 358 but not insurmountable.

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I have owned all three. Sold them off one at a time to fund other projects. Bad move times 3!

I just picked up a YUGO 48 commercial action with a spoon bill handle. Over the next four months it is going to morph into a 358 Win in a 20 barreled Mannlicher stock.
I also have another 9,3x62 in process.

The 9,3x62 with NORMA ammunition is legal for everything but Elephant in Africa. I have made three trips, and am going back next July for 3 weeks. My PH in RSA and his Father routinely kill Cape Buffalo and everything on down with theirs.

Forced to choose just one, it's the 9,3 every time out.
Rich

[btroj]

I don't own one but want a 358 Win. Darn tough to beat it as a cast bullet cartridge.

I must have missed the part of the OP asking about hunting in Africa.....

[Artful]

I have a 358 (Savage 99) and want to make a bolt gun - I bought 35 Whelen dies but after some though and experience I've sold them and am planning now on doing the bolt gun in 358 WCF.

[OuchHot!]

I have had 35Whelens for several decades. I was principally using J bullets and frankly, they were always tough to find in the pre-internet era. Several bullet manufacturers listed them but they seemed seldom in inventory. I currently have both 35w (Rem 700 classic) and 9.3X62 (CZ and Ruger African). I think that in the internet era it is actually easier to get 9.3 j types than .35. The Privi factory ammo is super as is the booteak stuff. So from an ammo and j-type bullet point of view, I like the 9.3 best. From a terminal ballistics point of view I think that the 358 win will do anything that you want.

[seaboltm]

I have owned all three. Given your parameters, 358 Winchester makes a lot of sense. You can even use 357 cast boolits for plinking loads. Of course so can the Whelen, but given your other parameters, 358 Winchester makes sense.

[LIMPINGJ]

Talking about using pistol boolits for plinking don't forget the 9.3X62 can use MAK boolits.

[Duckiller]

Do you want a short action or std length action? Everyone has a favorite caliber and that is the advice you are getting. Since you are going to be reloading all three will do what you want. Factor ammo, in case luggage gets lost, may be more available in 358Win and 35 W. 9.3x62 will definately kill large animals. The two calibers that kill the most moose are 303Br and 6.5x55. Your three calibers have much more power. Not sure where you are shooting moose and elk, if you could also encounter large unfriendly bears then your calibers would be very appropriate. It is going to be your gun that you get to carry. Pick one that you are going to like and enjoy it and hunting with it.

[reed1911]

Based on the OP design wants, I give another vote to the .358. Easy to load for, plethora of bullets out there for it, plenty of moulds, brass is so easy to come by, well known backstory for cast loads.

[missionary5155]

Good morning
JES Reboring has a caliber .375 Whelen for sale right now on Gunbroker. Type in Whelen in the search and it will be at the end of the list as a Buy Now. Just another option. His barrels are very well made and shoot as good and better than factory. I have no economic gain involved.
Mike in Peru

[dragon813gt]

Great, now I want to buy that one. I just bought a Savage 99 he converted to 358 Winchester. His prices are very reasonable when you factor in rifle cost plus rebore.

[texasnative46]

To All,

ANY of the 3 calibers is FINE for hunting BIG game & unless you are planning to hunt in Africa, the .358 is GREAT & for the reasons that several members have stated above.
(I once had a Sako Finn-Wolf that I was FOOLISH enough to sell & have kicked myself several times since, as it was FLAWLESS.)

In my case, I plan to hunt BIG game in Africa in Fall 2017 & Red Deer/Russian Boar in Eastern Europe this Winter, so my choice is 9.3x62mm.
(The 9.3x62 is LAWFUL in both places for anything except Elephant. The other 2 calibers are NOT.)

just my OPINION, tex

[Ola]

From European perspective:

9,3x62 is THE caliber for regular hunter. High quality factory ammo available everywhere. Bullets designed mainly for thin skinned big animals (compared to f.e. .375 H&H). 9,3 bullets work nice when hunting boar, deer, moose, bears, African plains came. Also solids and thick jacketed bullets available.

The other 2 are for handloader hunters that don't want to use the same calibers everyone else is using. If the cases are plugged always with factory bullets -> .35 Whelen. If lead bullets are part of the equation -> .358 Win (I have one and really like it).

[Yodogsandman]

The 35 Whelen is the only classic American cartridge listed. It was a classic wildcat before most of us were born. It will do anything the others can do except that metric tube thing that can go hunt the big 5 in Africa because of their laws. Go hunt any other continent! It has history and a story behind it. Just my humble opinion.

[Harter66]

I load for a 358 Win .
179525

I believe this was a 35-250 fp over 4350 for 2100 fps . H322 will drive that bullet hard enough to open a Mauser inside the bow floor plate release .
I have moulds from 88-230 gr . The 14 twist seems to allow all the speed you could want and all the weight you can stand .

[scattershot]

Well, considering that you handload, And can load the Whelen round down (and the 9.3 too, for that matter) the only consideration really becomes do you want a short action, or a standard length? Brass availability would favor the .358 or .35 Whelen, so choose your action length and go for it.


Good luck!

[kiwi]

I have the 9.3x62 only shoot cast in it J-words are too expensive have a nice 292 grain mould from Tom at Accurate molds with 18 grains of 2400 it's a real ***** to shoot
but flattens animals like hitting them with a truck,
Would like a .358 but don't see them down under very often.

[dh2]

A friend kept on me to do a 9.3 x 63mm Mauser build with him one for each of us, over time I found a barrel and reamer and all needed parts , while working on it I ordered a 27-285C from accurate, after building it and doing a bit of load work it has serval times shoot a 1 inch three shoot group at 100 yards when pushed by H4895 , So I could see no other choice , And what would you ever want to hunt that it would not kill. recoil to me is manageable

[Biggs300]

I love old threads that come back to life. I have, and reload for both the 358 Winchester and 9.3x62 Mauser. If, in the past 2+ years, the OP hasn't made a decision, I will offer the opinion that either caliber would work well for his proposed uses. Both are easy to load, and components including brass and a decent selection of bullets (or boolit) are available. Also, both calibers have a host of powders that work well. My 358 Win Ruger Hawkeye excels with 225 grain NP's or similar bullets at 2,400+ fps works out to 250 yards (some say 300 yards) and hits harder than I have ever expected. My powder of choice for the 358 Winny is Ramshot TAC. My 9.3x62 also does well with 286 grain NP's with a good dose of Ramshot Big Game. I'd also like to try the 232 grain Norma Oryx's. I've used their factory 286 grain oryx ammo in my 9.3 which is really accurate for factory ammo. Still, the 358 Win is my rifle of choice for deer, elk (especially under 300 yards) and hogs.

[Uncle Grinch]

I've got and shoot all three calibers and seem to always come back to the 9.3x62. Maybe it's me and my desire for something just a little different. You really can't make a bad decision with these choices. Pick the one your heart likes the best.

[jhalcott]

For a handloader and in the bolt gun, the 358win is better thanthe Whelen.I have had both. I still have the Whelen. It takes more powderto get the same balliztics as in the 358.

[waksupi]

For a handloader and in the bolt gun, the 358win is better thanthe Whelen.I have had both. I still have the Whelen. It takes more powderto get the same balliztics as in the 358.


I've said the same thing many times.The Whelen is overbore for what we want to accomplish.

[mstarling]

If you are ever going to Africa the 9,3x62 is a great choice! Ammunition is available there which is not true of 35 Whelen. The 9,3x62 is just short of .375 H&H in terms of effectiveness and fits in a standard length action. The chambering is allowed for dangerous game in some places in Africa. The standard 0.366" projectile is 286 gr ... and my standard handload delivers 2425 fps. That load kills way over it's apparent abilities. I have CZ 550 American and a VZ24 practical custom rifles in 9,3x62.

Have taken Kudu, Wildebeast, Bushpig, Warthog, and Reedbok in Africa. Have taken hogs and deer in the US with it. The rifles just work!

[justingrosche]

181796 +1 for the Whelen

[paul h]

I've said the same thing many times.The Whelen is overbore for what we want to accomplish.

Yup, for cast boolits the 358 win is just the right size, for jacketed go with the whelen.

[5Shot]

Yup, for cast boolits the 358 win is just the right size, for jacketed go with the whelen.

I hate to add to a thread that is almost out of diapers, but...how does the 358 do with heavies, like 285-300+ ?

[paul h]

~2100 fps depending on barrel length. You could possibly push them a bit harder but my thought on the best accuracy with cast is not to run the pressure to the redline, and I think on game performance with cast is about it's best with a top speed of 2100 fps.

[ulav8r]

Since the thread has been refreshed, depends on action choice and where it will be used. If going to Africa is a possibility, 9.3 hands down. If you love recoil, 35 Whelen. For a short action, 358. For a Mauser action, 358x57mm to simplify feeding.

[azrednek]

358 Norma Mag, brass easily made from trimmed 300 Win or most H&H type brass. Can be down loaded down to powder puff cast loads or up to being more than sufficient for any North American game animal.

[MarkP]

Another idea; Remington M SEVEN in 350 Rem Mag.

[paul h]

A couple knocks against the 350 rem mag for cast bullet use is the neck is much shorter than the whelen: ~0.35" vs ~0.46" and COAL limitations in the magazines. With heavy for caliber cast bullets such as the 358009, you want the longer neck to keep the gas check in the neck.

As a jacketed bullet hunting rifle I prefer my 350 rem mag, but for shooting cast the whelen is a better choice for a cartridge with the same case capacity.

[gzig5]

For me to would depend on the action you build off of. Short action M700/M70 then the .358 Win. Long action m700/M70 the 35 Whelen. Mauser action, the 9.3x57 or 9.3x62 depending on full length or intermediate. I'm looking at doing a 9x57 (.358 bore) on a WWI Danzig SR/LT action that currently has a rough 8x57 bore. It's kinda right in the middle.

[texasnative46]

gzig5,

Unless you just want to build a rifle, you may want to check out the numerous REALLY NICE Austrian, Danish, German, Norwegian & Swedish-made rifles "that seem to be all-over the larger gun-shows" in 2016.

At the last big San Antonio gun-show there was a vendor who had more than 2 dozen REALLY nice rifles (Some included good European-made scopes, too.) in 8x57, 9x57, 9.3x57 & 9.3x62 on his tables.

Prices ranged (seemingly based on how "fancy" that the rifles were, as all of the rifles seemed to be in good working condition) from just over 300.oo to a couple that were "really fancy" for over 600.oo each.
(Had all of the rifles not been in RH, I would likely have bought at least 2 of them. = I'm a southpaw, which is why I started buying the Remington Model 760.)

yours, tex

[waksupi]

I hate to add to a thread that is almost out of diapers, but...how does the 358 do with heavies, like 285-300+ ?

Excellent, with the right twist.

[gzig5]

Satx,
I have a perfectly good Husky 146 9.3x57 in the safe I picked up for $200 a few years ago. I haven't been to a gun show in a while so I don't know what's trending, and around here they aren't that good. My 9x57 project is only because the rifle won't shoot well enough any more and I happen to have a Shilen 358 blank on hand. I was thinking about having it rebored but I haven't decided yet.

[Texas by God]

I love my .358 model 700 adl rebore. Very accurate and I doubt I'll ever meet anything it won't kill. I've owned a .35 Whlen Imp & a 9.3x 62 mm and they were excellent- but for me the .358 is the keeper. Best, Thomas.

[texasnative46]

gzig5,

With a nice .358 Shilen barrel in hand, I wouldn't even consider any other caliber, presuming that I wasn't headed to Africa for dangerous game OR for the biggest/toughest bears. = I cannot think of any USA/Canadian game that cannot be collected with 225/250 grain bullets at >2000FPS.
(As I've said elsewhere, I once owned a Sako Finn-Wolf in .358WCF & found it to be utter perfection for Red Deer in BRD, out to at least 200M.)

IF you believe that the .358WCF isn't enough gun, the .35 Whelen is FINE, too.

just my OPINION, tex

[Old Coot]

The 9.3x62 and 9.3x57 are what the 35 Whelen and the .358 Winchester could -- Should-- of been if American gunmakers weren't stuck on velocity. Or the idea that the consumer won't buy a rifle that doesn't develop velocity over 2600 fps.
The big advantage of either European cartridge is the faster twist ( 1in 12 to 1 in 14in.) which allows you to use bullets up to and including 300gr. and the availability of those projectiles for reloading. Those faster twists shoot the lighter bullets just fine. Why Rem-chester had to handicap the American hunter to 35 Remington projectiles is a mystery to me. Brodie

[texasnative46]

Old Coot,

I would presume that you're 100% correct, as my old Sako Finn-Wolf had a 1/12 twist rate & did FINE with any bullet that I ever tried in it.

yours, satx

[Nrut]

Pass the .35 Whelen in 1:16 twist for me, thank you..
Why?
The slower your twist the easier it is to shoot cast bullets accurately..
You will note that most .35 cal. bullet shooters on this forum that are using 1:12 & 1:14 twist barrels are water dropping or heat treating their bullets to get accuracy over about 2000 fps..
I'll take the Whelen over the others because is has more latitude for reloading..
1. longer neck
2. longer throat
3. longer action to accommodate longer OAL


The 1:16 twist will stabilize the 310 gr bullet shown below..
http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/images/N.O.E._Bullet_Moulds_360-310-FN_(GC)_310_gr_Sketch.Jpg


Don't believe me?
Figure it out yourself using Berger's twist calculator..
http://www.bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/

OAL length of the NOE Thumper bullet is 1.219"
BC is .281
Wt. is 310 grs.

[Old Coot]

That is quite true Nrut, cast bullets at velocities over 2000 fps do shoot more accurately (or are at least reported to ) in slower twist barrels . The ghosts of 20 million buffalo never saw a bullet going over 1500 fps either, and they are just as dead.
Brodie

[paul h]

I've shot a five shot 1" group at 100 yds with my 350 Rigby using the Lyman 3589. It has a 1-14 twist barrel and bullets were air cooled wheel weights. Didn't chrono the load but it should have been in the 2000-2100 fps range.

Not saying there is anything wrong with 1-16, but 1-14 shouldn't hamper shooting cast in various 35 chambereings.

My 350 Rem mag has not been as cast friendly, but I figure that's a combination of shorter case neck, 1-12" barrel and shorter chamber throat.