Lake City Match vs. NM brass

[Alvin]

Hey everyone, I think this is the right place to post this question but apologies if not. A friend of mine recently cleaned his reloading area and gave me about 150 Lake City March and NM brass. I was wondering if those with experience with both can tell me if there is really any difference between the two.

For those who aren't familiar with the NM rounds, it was basically Lake City's special match ammo. The NM ammo used the best of the best components and QA was on a higher level then even their match ammo. The only difference I could tell was their is no scoring near the base as with the Match brass I have. My friend has some new match and NM ammo, so I'll get to try some out.

[madsenshooter]

The scoring will separate after several reloadings, sooner than the brass without it. Some guys won't reload the scored brass, but I've gotten at least half a dozen low pressure cast boolit reloads out if it. You might weigh a series of each and see if there's any real difference in quality control between the two.

[Larry Gibson]

If both types have "LC MATCH" on the headstamp they are the same cases. The non-canalured cases came from M118 Match and the canalured cases came from M852 Match loaded with 168 MKs. The canalure was to identify each round as "not for combat use" back when it wasn't.

Larry Gibson

[USSR]

Alvin,

The "NM" headstamped brass were made specifically for issue at Camp Perry during the National Match. This brass when manufactured was destined to be loaded with the very best match bullets which were sorted by weight and pulled from the production line. Little difference between the brass other than the headstamp.

Don

[Bob S]

The last "NM" brass I have is 1982, and it was A-136 ("M118"), not "cannelured". Not sure if any "NM" was made after that date was made after that date; I'm reasonably certain that after A-171 was standardized, no special NM was made. At least in my time at the Nationals (up through 1993), we were issued A-171 "Match" on the line. I have buckets of A-171 brass headstamped up through 1993, with the "cannelure", reload it often, and I have never had any case failures at all. For what it's worth ...

Resp'y,
Bob S.

[Scharfschuetze]

I've not had any issues with the cannelured M852 Match brass either.

Almost any 308/7.62 brass when used in the M14/M1A rifles will generally have a very short life compared to brass used in bolt guns or the M1 Garand. When loading for my M14NM or M1A match rifles I purposely never loaded a case more than twice when they were used in those rifles and even with that short use, some cases already showed an incipient case separation. I even used a vented gas plug in my personal M1A match rifle to reduce the ejection cycle velocity, but without any significant results concerning case life.

When used in bolt rifles, that knurled match brass will last through many reloads and I really like it for use in just about any application from cast boolits to match loads to hunting loads.

Like Bob W, I too started seeing the M118 Special Ball in the brown box in the mid 80s start to replace the M118 Match in the white box at the various DCM and military matches. Almost to a man our scores dropped a bit with its issue and it was a real relief to see the M852 Match ammo (with the knurled case and back in a white box) get into the supply chain. I guess it was about 92/93 or so that we got a ruling from the Army in memo form that we could use it for combat purposes in our M24 rifles.

[Alvin]

I've not had any issues with the cannelured M852 Match brass either.

Almost any 308/7.62 brass when used in the M14/M1A rifles will generally have a very short life compared to brass used in bolt guns or the M1 Garand. When loading for my M14NM or M1A match rifles I purposely never loaded a case more than twice when they were used in those rifles and even with that short use, some cases already showed an incipient case separation. I even used a vented gas plug in my personal M1A match rifle to reduce the ejection cycle velocity, but without any significant results concerning case life.

When used in bolt rifles, that knurled match brass will last through many reloads and I really like it for use in just about any application from cast boolits to match loads to hunting loads.

Like Bob W, I too started seeing the M118 Special Ball in the brown box in the mid 80s start to replace the M118 Match in the white box at the various DCM and military matches. Almost to a man our scores dropped a bit with its issue and it was a real relief to see the M852 Match ammo (with the knurled case and back in a white box) get into the supply chain. I guess it was about 92/93 or so that we got a ruling from the Army in memo form that we could use it for combat purposes in our M24 rifles.

I guess scoring is the incorrect term, the match brass is "knurled" at the base which is not present in the NM brass. So for general reloading, the knurled match brass should be good for multiple reloads in a bolt action rifle but not for a M1A?

[45 2.1]

So for general reloading, the knurled match brass should be good for multiple reloads in a bolt action rifle but not for a M1A?

You will see this mentioned quite a few times about semi auto rifles. The problem seems to be for these people is one of proper case sizing. If they have this trouble, it is one of setting the shoulder back too much for their individual rifle chamber. Several of use load military cases many, many times in the various semi-auto rifles with no problems.

[tygar]

You will see this mentioned quite a few times about semi auto rifles. The problem seems to be for these people is one of proper case sizing. If they have this trouble, it is one of setting the shoulder back too much for their individual rifle chamber. Several of use load military cases many, many times in the various semi-auto rifles with no problems.

I have used NM brass for my M1s, M1As & AR10s (o6 & 308) exclusively when firing for groups. I use the same scenario as for any other match brass I use. Weighed within 1/2 gr, matched in groups of at least 110-120, shot for groups & any not measuring within the group norm is removed, then fired for score 3 more times then relegated to use as testing brass.

I have never had problems with knurled brass separating, but I do not mix it with the other NM but use it with like brass.

Regular LC is used for the plinking & "revolution" stockpile stuff.

I have tried LCM in my LR bolts but it doesn't usually do as well, plus you need to reduce the load do to thicker brass in LC & that means more experimenting.

I have a lot of it but it's not infinite so I may be using the 4x fired brass again one of these days. Also, I anneal after the 4th x.

Also use small base die.

[Alvin]

Thanks for all the good information guys, helps me plan on what to do with the brass. I don't do any competition shooting, but like taking the M1A out for long distance shooting. I'll load up the brass as normal this weekend and let you guys know how it shoots. I also have a few hundred rounds of the newer lake city LR brass coming my way, am I right in assuming this is the new match brass or are they still making match ammo?

[woodbutcher]

:wink:The following is my definition of an expert:
Ex=Has been.
Spurt=Drip under pressure.
Combine the two,And you get "A has been drip".:roll:
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

[Cmm_3940]

This may be anecdotal as well for all I know, but I read one source that claimed the 'thicker brass' thing was true for 30/7.62 LC cases, but not for 5.56.

[tygar]

This may be anecdotal as well for all I know, but I read one source that claimed the 'thicker brass' thing was true for 30/7.62 LC cases, but not for 5.56.

It is not anecdotal. Just weigh it. Thicker brass is heavier, period. Loading Rem, Nos, Hor, with the same load as LC & the LC goes faster, plus it takes less grains of water than the others. Not speculation.

I've never seen a LCM 5.56 case. Only LC. That's what I use in my ARs exclusively. 25.0 RL15 w/80gr Bergers (or Sierra) will go as far as the wind will let it but excellent out to 600.