.38 Marlin

[Avery Arms]

I've got an old winchester loading tool that says "38 MARLIN" on the side of it, this tool has patent dates in 1874 and 1882.

What is a .38 marlin? I've never seen mention of this caliber anywhere. Could it be an obsolete name for a 38-40, 38-55 or something?

[Avery Arms]

I did some quick measurements and came up with a base diameter of .460 and a depth of about 1.5" which should eliminate the .38-55 and any round that is more or less straight walled.

The decapper/expander insert is marked "38 W" which seems to fit with 38wcf as do the rough measurements but the tool itself is marked .38 marlin clear as daylight.

97169

[country gent]

Maybe pick up some cero safe and make a casting of the dies interior. This will allow you to accuratly measure and see what is is.

[bigted]

"Maybe pick up some cero safe and make a casting of the dies interior. This will allow you to accuratly measure and see what is is".

great suggestion. tis what I would do as well.

[dtknowles]

Since 38-40 (38 WCF) is really a 40 cal. it should be easy to check. As to some of the other cartridges the length should be a pretty good guide.

Tim

[.22-10-45]

Hello, Avery Arms. That .38 Marlin stamping is not an obsolete name for the .38-55....I'ts the ORIGINAL name! The Ballard company came out with it in 1876...Ballard was later bought up by Marlin & the excellent single shots continued to be manufactured under that name. The cartridge got the Winchester "dash" treatment when that company started chambering their arms for it.

[Avery Arms]

After measuring it the tool can't be .38-55 because it's too wide and not nearly deep enough. It fits .38-40 better than any other suspected round.

[smkummer]

This post caused me to pull out an old 1974 Remington catalog that had a chart of cartridge interchangeability. They list 38 Marlin, 38 Winchester, 38 Remington, 38-40 and 38 WCF as all the same cartridge.

[jrmartin1964]

.38 Marlin (aka .38-40 Marlin Safety) = .38 W.C.F. (aka .38-40 Winchester). The cartridges are physically interchangeable, and ballistics are virtually identical.

FWIW: From its introduction c.1879 to about 1890, Winchester varied the loading of the .38 W.C.F. from 37 to 40 grains of powder, with a 160 to 180 grain boolit; from c.1890 until blackpowder loadings were discontinued (c.1942) the Winchester cartridge was loaded with 38 grains of powder and a 180 grain pure lead boolit, and bore the headstamp ".38 W.C.F." The Marlin cartridge, introduced c.1895, was loaded with 40 grains of powder and the same 180 grain boolit as the Winchester cartridge, and was headstamped ".38-40".

Jim

[Avery Arms]

Thanks Jim that was very helpful.

[texassako]

I have been delving onto some of the info on old tools. Since everything was fixed in one position, they seemed to have different tools for different brands. Winchester might use bullet X while Marlin used bullet Y and they needed a different tool to seat the different bullet. Take a look on castpics at the Ideal #9 handbook and they say what tools different bullet designs fit in.

[justashooter]

BTW, Marlin called the 38-55 a 38-56, just like they called the 25-35 a 25-36. no difference in the actual cartridge, just a marketing thing. You will occasionally find rifles so marked.

[bigted]

"BTW, Marlin called the 38-55 a 38-56, just like they called the 25-35 a 25-36. no difference in the actual cartridge, just a marketing thing."


NOPE ... the 38-55 is based on a case that went ahead to be the 30-30 and 25-35 cartridge while the 45-70 case went ahead to 38-56 and 40-65 as well as the 33 winchester.

the 25-35 winchester did go into the 25-36 case but they are not the same conformation and I doubt they would chamber in each others chamber.

there are huge differences in these cases and while the 38-55 will slip into the chamber of a 38-56 ... I would caution you to NOT yank the trigger as the 38-55 WILL rupture in the body if it fires at all ...

and NONE of the afore mentioned chambers even remotely resemble the "38 Marlin" case.

be careful as there are folks that take everything at face value that they read on the internet. if it gets published on the internet ... it HAS to be truth ... kinda thing.

no disrespect intended my friend.

[justashooter]

NOPE ... the 38-55 is based on a case that went ahead to be the 30-30 and 25-35 cartridge while the 45-70 case went ahead to 38-56 and 40-65 as well as the 33 winchester.

the 25-35 winchester did go into the 25-36 case but they are not the same conformation and I doubt they would chamber in each others chamber.


on further research, you are right about the 38-56, but you are not right about the 25-36. i have personally fired 25-35 ammo in a 25-36 gun with decent accuracy and no ill effect. the difference is that the 25-36 is .080" longer from the shoulder forward than the 25-35, so a 25-35 will take a slight fireform in a 25-36 chamber. seems that 25-36 could be reloaded from such fireformed brass by backing the 25-35 sizing die out about 80 thou.

http://stevespages.com/jpg/cd2535winchester.jpg

http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=163

[w30wcf]

.38 Marlin (aka .38-40 Marlin Safety) = .38 W.C.F. (aka .38-40 Winchester). The cartridges are physically interchangeable, and ballistics are virtually identical.

FWIW: From its introduction c.1879 to about 1890, Winchester varied the loading of the .38 W.C.F. from 37 to 40 grains of powder, with a 160 to 180 grain boolit; from c.1890 until blackpowder loadings were discontinued (c.1942) the Winchester cartridge was loaded with 38 grains of powder and a 180 grain pure lead boolit, and bore the headstamp ".38 W.C.F." The Marlin cartridge, introduced c.1895, was loaded with 40 grains of powder and the same 180 grain boolit as the Winchester cartridge, and was headstamped ".38-40".

Jim

Jim,
Thank you for the history lesson.:grin:
It is interesting that the .38-40 as named by UMC / Marlin was always loaded with 40 grs. of b.p. while the .38 W.C.F. continued along with 38 grs.

Regarding the .38 Marlin marking on the tool ....... Early on Marlin referred to the .30 W.C.F. As the .30 Marlin prior to, or around the same time, that UMC / Marlin named it the .30-30. It appears that they did the same thing in referring to the .38-40 as .38 Marlin...........

w30wcf