Biggest 458 caliber mold

[moose0011]

My question is simple? Who makes the Biggest 458 mold out there? I have saw some 720 grain molds.. but I haven't saw where you can buy them? any idea? And who here has shot them and or hunted with them?

[bhn22]

Accurate only goes up to 550 gr. You can design any bullet you like at Mountain Molds, I suppose you could literally fill the case with lead if you really want to, just make certain your barrel has a fast enough twist to stabilize it, and enough case capacity for powder to propel it. What caliber are you loading for? Having the bullet shank protrude below the case neck usually doesn't work out well, and there are nose length restrictions for rifle magazines. Once you get past those little details, you can get whatever you want.

[btroj]

They aren't going to feed well in my Marlin so I don't want them.

I don't have a need for over 420 gr in a 45-70 so I don't even look at heavier than that.

A 720 gr bullet is a monster for a 45. Not sure what they are good for other than emptying a pot. Ingot moulds maybe?

[moose0011]

I am a gunsmith and I have a 458 Win Mag with a 1:12 twist. It is on a M-98 and I can alter that as well. I just want one because I can I guess. I would only shoot it from time to time. I think it sounds neat.. :)

[moose0011]

They aren't going to feed well in my Marlin so I don't want them.

I don't have a need for over 420 gr in a 45-70 so I don't even look at heavier than that.

A 720 gr bullet is a monster for a 45. Not sure what they are good for other than emptying a pot. Ingot moulds maybe?


yes you are correct they will be good for that. just think 10 of them and a pound is gone. I realize most people don't need them.. that is why I didn't word it that way. Most don't need a lot of things.. this is just something I was looking for. I will single load one that is for sure. and I may only make a few here and there..

[btroj]

The recoil would become more than I want in a hurry. Even at 1200 fps it is gonna get your attention.

[Cast Bullet Engineering]

Something like this?

http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/bullet-moulds/rifle/458-calibre/458-730gc-single-cavity

Regards,
David.

[moose0011]

ABSOLUTELY!!!!!!!!! Thank you very much :)

[moose0011]

Something like this?

http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/bullet-moulds/rifle/458-calibre/458-730gc-single-cavity

Regards,
David.

How much is that to ship it to America? and what is the lead time?

[Cast Bullet Engineering]

Lead time is a few days to make the mould, shipping to the USA is $35-70 AUD, this is from the Australia Post website, for the "Pack and Track" option, it's the cheapest way we can get insurance and traceability on the package.
Customers tell me it takes about 10-14 days to get to the USA from Australia.

David.

[moose0011]

Ok one more question.. Does the Top Punch you sell for it work in the lyman 4500?

[moose0011]

I guess it was 2 more questions? the $149 is that Australian or US? What would it be for the Mold/top punch/ and shipping?

[tygar]

I am a gunsmith and I have a 458 Win Mag with a 1:12 twist. It is on a M-98 and I can alter that as well. I just want one because I can I guess. I would only shoot it from time to time. I think it sounds neat.. :)

I know this is Cast Bullets, but I have some 600gr Barns that I sometimes shoot in my 450 Watts. I shoot a lot of big boomers with up to 510s with no problems, but that 600 at full pop, will flat kick your az.

So unless you load it down I expect you can expect something pretty interesting.

[moose0011]

Yeah I know what you mean.. I just want it for the fun of it from time to time.. I will probably shoot the 405's and 300's the most but from time to time O yeah bring out the big boy. I always have people brag how recoil doesn't bother them. well.. :) And I have some that have tried to tell me how bad there 270 kicks lol. honestly I don't think a heavy kicker is for most people. I don't plan on just blasting them over and over. I will share them. I like to plink mostly with my 17 hornet or my 22-250 ackley. I am also in the middle of a 6.5 that I designed. I have started ordering stuff for a 338 norma as well. However I started this 458 Win Mag about 3 or 4 years ago because I had a friend that was all about a big bore and I was all about the small bore. well I got him into small bores and I have been super excited about this big bore and I want to say I have the biggest you can go with this big bore. Just to say it.. I just like to shoot though it really doesn't matter.. you can give me targets at 1200 and a good rifle set up or you can give me a cheap little 22 pistol and pop cans or whatever else needs to be shot before recycled..

Also I didn't even realize that barnes made a 600 grain bullet in the 458

[John Allen]

Yowsers, that is going to kick!

[tygar]

Also I didn't even realize that barnes made a 600 grain bullet in the 458

Ya, they are quite old. Can't remember just when I got them but could be as far back as late 70s or 80s. If you had to shoot a big one close, they would certainly do the trick.

I've had lots of .45 cals & bigger, 470 Nitro doubles, .460s etc. Got down to the plain .458s in Win Mag (bolts & double), Lott & Watts. You can basically almost duplicate the .460 with the Watts & the .458 double is as good as the .470. Plus you can shoot the WinMag in both the Lott & Watts.

Anyhow, I have come to really like a 400gr bullet in all of them. My double even likes them. It shoots 500s to POI at 50yds & the 400s about 1" high. It's easy to shoot & about 20% less recoil, flatter shooting etc.

Have fun.

[moose0011]

that is the plan.. Fun.. Thats what it is all about right. As long as its safe and at no one elses expense.

[JeffinNZ]

Something like this?

http://www.castbulletengineering.com.au/bullet-moulds/rifle/458-calibre/458-730gc-single-cavity

Regards,
David.

David, does that bullet have a hinge in the middle. :Fire:

[Cast Bullet Engineering]

I guess it was 2 more questions? the $149 is that Australian or US? What would it be for the Mold/top punch/ and shipping?

Mould, Top Punch (suits RCBS and Lyman) and shipping is $204-70 AUD, about $184-50 USD.

Regards,
David.

[Cast Bullet Engineering]

David, does that bullet have a hinge in the middle. :Fire:

Yep, it's a big sucker isn't it! Jim showed me some targets that another US shooter shot using this bullet out of a Ruger #1 in 458 Win Mag.
Very impressive groups, and they stabilised without a problem.

DC

[moose0011]

Sweet... is the best way to create an online account and order online?

[Whiterabbit]

on the domestic side, the mold is an NEI 458-645-GC, #351.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65955&d=1364705832

Given how few are floating around, unless you have a specific known source for the mold, probably just as easy to order from CBE. Certainly faster.



Oh, and at <1000 fps these things don't recoil hardly at all :)

[moose0011]

on the domestic side, the mold is an NEI 458-645-GC, #351.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65955&d=1364705832

Given how few are floating around, unless you have a specific known source for the mold, probably just as easy to order from CBE. Certainly faster.



Oh, and at <1000 fps these things don't recoil hardly at all :)

Why do I think you are lying about the recoil :wink:

[Cast Bullet Engineering]

Sweet... is the best way to create an online account and order online?

Totally up to you, happy to go with whatever is the easiest way for you.
You can order it online, or send me an e-mail, either way, same result!

DC

[bhn22]

Why do I think you are lying about the recoil :wink:

I dunno, the smiley face made me trust him instantly. He seems sincere...

[moose0011]

Totally up to you, happy to go with whatever is the easiest way for you.
You can order it online, or send me an e-mail, either way, same result!

DC

OK so $184.50 is it shipped. I will be contacting you in a few weeks then. :)

[moose0011]

I dunno, the smiley face made me trust him instantly. He seems sincere...

You are absolutely right. He must be a big guy. Thats all I can say.. :)

[Whiterabbit]

that smiley is what you will look like after pulling the trigger on one of those bad boys.

Seriously though, recoil energy is 1/2*mv^2. if you halve the bullet speed, you drop the recoil energy by FOUR! We know that perceived recoil isn't all that related to numbers, but the point is still there. The recoil you have to deal with is linear to bullet weight, and exponential to speed.

Like I told my gun club. I like shooting anything that involves a big bullet moving slow. Just feels.....civilized.






(6'3" and 145 lb. I blow away in the wind unless I turn sideways....)

[moose0011]

Man your a big boy.. lol I am only 6'7 320lbs. I have to be careful on windy days..

To be Honest I have never really shot any big bullets slow. I have shot winchester 510 gr soft points and hornady and remington 500 grain solids all factory.. that is all I have shot out of it.

[MtGun44]

Actually, the formula quoted is for muzzle energy, not recoil energy. Perceived recoils is much
better described by momentum rather than energy, and the momentum is a direct function
of velocity, so expect the perceived recoil to be proportional to mass times velocity, not mass
times velocity squared. The momentum of the ejected gas is usually included in these calcs
too, as they become significant - the calculation puts the boolit plus powder weight as the total
ejecta, but each has a different velocity - the gas being higher.

Simplified, short version -
405 gr x 1750 fps = 709,000 (rounding to nearest 1000)
720 gr x 1300 fps = 936,000

expect the second load to feel like about 32% more recoil. Personally, my absolute upper limit
with the 405 was about 2100 fps, which works out to 850,000. So, I'd rather not shoot a 720 gr
at 1300 fps, thank you!

In any case - muzzle energy is mostly a useless number - it does not relate well to killing power
or to recoil of the gun, so while it is an accurate mathematical calculation of the energy that
the boolit carries - it doesn't mean much in the real world.

Does the twist in a std .45-70 stabilize this long a boolit properly?

Bill

[Whiterabbit]

well, the formula quoted was for free recoiling energy. In my experience, NOT holding things equal (ie not loading to the same pressure or the same RPM or the same stability factor, since we strive for target accuracy, which may lead to 'incomparable' loads when changing bullet weight), light bullets in fact do show more perceived recoil in the same gun.

But I digress. Wasn't talking about bullet - muzzle energy, was talking about free recoiling energy. I and many others do understand that does account for the bullet weight and the powder charge weight and why.

I and most others also understand that muzzle energy doesn't not equate to killing power or felt recoil, which is why it was not used.

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/GunRecoilFormulae.pdf

Anyways, perhaps unimportant discussion for this thread. I shouldn't have brought it up.

[tygar]

well, the formula quoted was for free recoiling energy. In my experience, NOT holding things equal (ie not loading to the same pressure or the same RPM or the same stability factor, since we strive for target accuracy, which may lead to 'incomparable' loads when changing bullet weight), light bullets in fact do show more perceived recoil in the same gun.

But I digress. Wasn't talking about bullet - muzzle energy, was talking about free recoiling energy. I and many others do understand that does account for the bullet weight and the powder charge weight and why.

I and most others also understand that muzzle energy doesn't not equate to killing power or felt recoil, which is why it was not used.

http://www.saami.org/PubResources/GunRecoilFormulae.pdf

Anyways, perhaps unimportant discussion for this thread. I shouldn't have brought it up.

OK You & Mtgun44 are talking stuff & for us "ology" majors way out of our league.

I don't know what all that means but I will tell you that shooting the same bullet at the same speed with one round out of a straight wall case & one out of a bottle neck - the bottle neck will "kick" more; period!

You shoot a 500 gr out of a 460 at 2500 & a 500 out of a 450 Watts at 2500, the 460 will knock the **** out of you & the 450 is manageable.

And the more "overbore" a case is e.g. a 378 Wby vs a 375H&H, same bullet, same weight, the 378 is much harder. In fact, in felt recoil the 378 can fell worse than a 460. That's why the more overbore a cartridge the more benefit a muzzle break provides with the 300, 338 & 378 Wby providing the most reduction.

In addition, if you take that same 500gr bullet & replace it with a 400 with the same powder charge, on paper its a 20% reduction but felt recoil reduction is greater. That 500 at 2500 hurts, the 400 at 2500 is not a problem.

Now youall probably said that in your posts above but I wouldn't know.

Tom

[Whiterabbit]

Thanks for posting your experience on that :)

[Cast Bullet Engineering]

I've got a 585 Nyati myself and shoot 900 grain cast bullets from it at around 1700 fps. I also shoot 750 grain Woodleighs at 2250 fps, the Woodleighs are much nicer to shoot than the cast bullets.
Yet on paper for muzzle energy, the cast loads are much lower. I think it's got something to do with trying to launch heavy bullets!

DC

[Whiterabbit]

1/2 M V^2 (now muzzle energy, not free recoiling energy, but energy is energy! :)) . double velocity, increase muzzle energy by a factor of four.

That's what MtGun44 meant when he said we cannot compare muzzle energy to felt recoil when he mistook my mentioning free recoil energy for muzzle energy. That we cannot "technically" compare free recoil energy to felt recoil also I mentioned myself in my initial post. :)

I have examples too! in my 460, I can launch a 740 grain bullet at 930 fps, and a 200 grain bullet at almost three times the velocity. The 740's are civilized, but the 200's are downright brutal. So, two examples that contradict in (muzzle)energy vs recoil.

neat stuff.

[MtGun44]

1/2 M v^2 is the formula for kinetic energy. If you use the mass of a boolit and the velocity of the bullet at the
muzzle, it is muzzle energy. This is pretty straight up physics. I don't really know the proper definition of
"free recoil energy" so can't make a comment. Depending how you want do define what you are taking the
mass of and what you are taking the velocity of - boolit or rifle, the answers are very different.

In any case, perceived recoil has as much to do with the weight of the gun and shape and size of the stock as
it does the load. Frankly, no simple math calculation seems to do any real justice to matching the
percieved recoil. A lot of it is totally subjective, too. MUCH voodoo in trying to "calculate recoil" and not
a lot of really good science. Lots of folks have their pet method, but different shooters will agree or
disagree which gun and load kicks more, regardless what some numerical value says.

Two guns of identical weight shooting identical ammo will have a massively different perceived recoil with
different stock drop and comb shape. Any mathematical system will tell you that the recoil is identical,
but shooters will not agree with the math. Therefore, the math is not useful, however elegant the
physics and math might be.

The term I prefer is "perceived recoil" because that is what the shooter FEELS, and most calcs do not
do a very good job of matching it. In GENERAL, momentum calcs seem to do reasonably well, but I still
think that they fall short a lot of any capture of the stock shape effects and shooter body type and size.

Bill

[armorer59]

Wow! Happy I fould this thread!. CBE has the mold I want!

512-975GC Single Cavity

Price: $149.00
Attributes: Gas Check
Other features:
Select:
Special Order 50 BMG or 500 Whisper design. - A Top Punch is available for this mould. Please order in the 'other features' drop down box above.
Qty:

[Natenator]

My question is simple? Who makes the Biggest 458 mold out there? I have saw some 720 grain molds.. but I haven't saw where you can buy them? any idea? And who here has shot them and or hunted with them?

NEI I believe is the mould maker for the 730. I have some from Matt's bullets cast.

[Wayne Smith]

NEI has been worthless since Walt died and is now out of business, I believe.

[stubshaft]

NEI has finally closed their doors.

[Natenator]

NEI has finally closed their doors.

****. I just saw that mould on a website not too long ago.

[Stephen Cohen]

Yep, it's a big sucker isn't it! Jim showed me some targets that another US shooter shot using this bullet out of a Ruger #1 in 458 Win Mag.
Very impressive groups, and they stabilised without a problem.

DC

I am happy with the 460gr I purchased just after you took over the business. I have 3 of your moulds now and I doubt that one will be my next buy, I have a low threshold for pain. Interestingly the 460gr I purchased holds all shots into 30mm at 100mtrs from my 458wm and is the most accurate cast my mate has ever used in his 45/70. Regards Stephen

[M.A.D]

I use a CBE , casts 720 grains , but i have a 12 inch 1-10 twist barrel in my Ruger falling block. I can confirm.. It knocks down feral cats , rabbits, Foxes, feral dogs and Pigs up to 90 kg..

[Stephen Cohen]

I use a CBE , casts 720 grains , but i have a 12 inch 1-10 twist barrel in my Ruger falling block. I can confirm.. It knocks down feral cats , rabbits, Foxes, feral dogs and Pigs up to 90 kg..

My God man your my new hero, 12'' barrelled 458 firing 720gr cast, I feel like a wimp firing my 500gr out of full size rifle. I bet your dunny has a roll of 80grit sand paper where the dunny roll should be. I must admit I thought of trying that mould myself once but my shoulder hurt just thinking of it. Just pulling your chain mate Regards Stephen.

[MT Chambers]

I have a 600 gr. spitzer paper patch mold from M.T. Chambers Supply.

[Ozark mike]

Always wonderd how a 720 would feel out of my bfr. I know I can sprain a wrist with 500 grainer guess I ought to hurry up and beat myself up side the head so I don't have to wonder anymore

[corbinace]

Always fun to see a dormant thread sprout new foliage.