32 H&R Mag question for the Gurus

[Redd508]

I'm having mixed results and am looking for feedback. I'm loading a 93 gr LRN over 10.3 gr of LilGun with published data putting my velocity just over 1000 fps.

At 10 yards i get 2" 5 shot groups and at 15 yards they open up to 3" (4" with the one flyer). When i back out to 25 yards my grouos open up dramatically. Approximately 12" and almost a foot to the left.

I'm casting 50/50 soww/coww and water quenching. My first attempt with the 32 was with strait coww water dropped and 10 yard accuracy was terrible. I figured the boolits were too hard to engage the rifling enough to stabilize and that seems to hold true.

I'm shooting freehand with a moderate crosswind from the right. The gun is an NEF R73 Ultra with a 6" bbl. Are the winds enough to drift the boolits at that short a range? Or is there some other forces at work here that im not seeing?

Any help is appreciated.

Redd

[Outpost75]

#1 slug cylinder throats and size bullets to THAT diameter. If your chambers are average you will need bullets sized. 313".

#2 Your alloy is harder than necessary, try the bullets, as-cast, air cooled and UN-sized at whatever diameter they drop and just tumble lube with Lee Liquid Alox.

I don't have any experience with LilGun. I always had better results with the faster burners. Try 3 grs. of Bullseye, 3.5 grs. of W231 or SR7625, or 4 grs. of Unique or PB. These will all give close to 1000 fps in a 6" using half as much powder as you are using with the LilGun. OK pressure wise in a strong gun, such as a Ruger, to increase these charges up to 1/2 grain, but these are well proven if the goal is accuracy and not just seeking a "magic" (and meaningless) velocity "number."

[Bullshop]

My gun does much better with heavier boolits. It prefers the standard 32/20 boolit the 115gn fn.
My gun is a Ruger single six that was a 22 rf but has been converted to CF. The barrel is a factory Ruger 32 mag I got on the net.

[JSH]

It is a break open gun like a tc. Read up on sizing brass and headspacing. With the single shot I bet you would be better off with a heavier bullet like a 120-155. Just guessing that there is a lot of jump in the throat.
From what you describe it sounds almost like an out of square muzzle or really bad crown.
At 10 yards it should be a very small clover leaf.
My buckeye shoots a 90 grain into around 4" at 100 meters.
Jeff

[Redd508]

My next step was a softer alloy. I hadn't considered the crown or muzzle squareness. I'm not looking for one ragged hole at 100 accuracy. I dont expect the NEF is capable but you never know. I would however, like to be minute of bunny noggin at 30 or so yards.

Do i need a gun-smithy to check the muzzle or is there a moderately easy way for me to check this?

Also, I'm not so much concerned about velocity except as it relates to accuracy. Light, heavy, slow or fast doesnt matter so much as long as it can make meat. I like punching paper too but grocery getting is more the primary role i had in mind. I thought about trying 32 Long data to find a load the gun likes.

I like the gun and want to give it a fair shake before i consider selling it.

[dverna]

How does it shoot jacketed or factory ammo? If it shoots those well it. it is not the crown.

How can re-crown a barrel yourself it you are not looking for match grade performance.

Don Verna

[Outpost75]

For a quick touch-up you can carefully use one of these. This was a standard armorer's tool for cop guns back in the day.

http://www.brownells.com/userdocs/learn/Inst-198%20Revolver%20Deburring%20Too.pdf

[Mk42gunner]

My Ruger SSM seems to agree with Bullshop's, i.e. it prefers a heavier boolit. And in my experience; lilgun likes a heavier projectile as well, at least in the .32H&R Magnum.

I have always used plain old air cooled wheel weights in my .32's, sized to .313" with a standard small pistol primer.

If you are trying to test loads, you really need to do it from a steady, rested position. Even back when Uncle Sam was paying for most of my ammunition I didn't try to test accuracy freehanded. Once you get satisfactory groups, then move on to freehand practice.

Robert

[Redd508]

I can do a recrown but i havent tried factory yet. Theres not much selection around here except the uber hornady dragon slayers. I'm not willing to drop coin on those yet but i am keeping my eyes open for a fairly priced factory target load. I may have to order a box of something before long. It sounds like a test i should have started with as a base line. Good advice.

My testing methods may be flawed but i know what i can do offhand with other handguns for a comparison. I didnt have time for a prolonged range session but it did tell me something was off. Though it was an improvement over the first run with hard cast and 700x.

I'll have to check the forcing cone too i reckon. I havent had to check so many things for tweeks before. I'm learning something here. Thats gotta be a good thing.

[JSH]

Sorry I saw h&r and thought handi rifle. Forgot about the original 32 mag guns.
I would still take loop and look at the crown.
How does the forcing cone look?
As mentioned you need to slug the cylinder, forcing cone and muzzle. In that orde if any of them get bigger than the last you have your work cut out for you. I describe it as choke all the way to the muzzle.
How does your crimp look? All the cases been trimmed to equal length?
Jeff

[mikeym1a]

My .32 shooting has been done with 10lb coww, 1lb 50/50 solder. Cast, air cooled, tumble lubed, loaded and shot as cast. Never shot paper with it, but, with the number of tin cans that fell over, it was pretty accurate. If you group is largish at 10 yds, and opens up the further you go, then I would suspect the slug is marginal. Another guy suggested that you slug the chamber to see what size the boolits come out. Then you slug the barrel. Then you compare the size of the chamber slug to the bore slug. The chamber slug should be .001 larger than your bore slug. That is where I would look first. And if you decide to get rid of the piece, let me know. I'm interested. mikey

[Larry Gibson]

Sizing?

Lube?

No need to WQ. Lol fun is not a good powder for that weight cast in the 32 H&R. I've had no problems with 90 gr cast in my Ruger SSH, Contender and several S&Ws and a couple H&Read. I suggest 3 gr Bullseye or 4 gr Unique with your cast bullet.

Larry Gibson

[Fishman]

When I had a NEF .32 mag it shot the lee 93 gr lrn well cast from air cooled ww, unsized at .313, tumble lubed with lee alox, and 3.2 gr of bullseye. As others have stated, a softer alloy and a faster powder should work better.

[leftiye]

I'm a slow powder, heavy boolit type of guy, but the .32 mag ain't a true mag. It doesn't work at magnum pressures, so LIL GUN might not ignite and/or burn well at 21,000 instead of 44000. I'd try blue dot. All of the other measurements and lead hardnesses are standard factors in revolver accuracy, and most guns won't shoot well with boolits smaller than chamber mouths, chamber mouths smaller than groove diameter. Out of square crowns and buggered forcing cones never help either.

[Green Frog]

If all else fails, a change of powder may be of some help. I like Accurate #7 and #9 for my 327 Fed Mag, but got the basic loads from their 32 H&R Mag-wannabe data. I like to reserve my bullets running 100 grains or less for 32 S&W L and use 110-115 grain bullets in the H&R. I'm using mostly 125s in my 327 FM. I'm currently regarding my 32 H&R brass as candidates for "target" loads in my custom K-327 S&W, so I'll be waiting to see what other good accuracy loads show up in this thread.

Froggie

[Outpost75]

The .32 H&R Mag compares best with the .32-20 Winchester and the same bullets and powders work well in it which do in the .32-20:

Bullets 90-120 grains, such as RCBS 32-90CM, #311008, Saeco #322, and #325 or similar.
SOFT lead bullets no harder than 12 BHN, sized to fit the cylinder throats. Meaning .313" for most guns.
Pressures are the about same as .38 Special +P <20kpsi, so the same powders which work in .38 Special are best.
Gaschecks are neither necessary, nor desireable at these velocities and pressures.

Bullets either lighter than 90 or heavier than 120 grains are a mistake.
Alloys harder than 12 BHN are a mistake.
GC bullets are (usually a mistake - unless you are intentionally going beyond SAAMI MAP, aka shooting "proof" loads!)
Bullets smaller than .3125" are a mistake.
Powders slower than Unique or PB are a mistake.

Performance parameters of factory loads are either 85-gr. JHP or 98-grain lead bullet at 1050 fps from a 4" vented test barrel with 0.008" cylinder gap. Factory load velocity and performance is approximated with Saeco #325 and 3.0 grains of Bullseye, 3.5 of W231 or SR7625, or 4 grs. Unique or PB.

[Bullshop]

"""Powders slower than Unique or PB are a mistake."""
Perhaps not completely. I will have to go check my records to be sure but think one of my favorite high end loads uses the 115gn FN boolit with 5744 powder.
Again I think but will have to go check to be sure but I think in burn rate 5744 is somewhere in the neighborhood of the 4227 powders.

[MT Gianni]

I have a decent load with H110 . It groups well but does not gain much over 4.4 gr unique which is more efficient.

[Redd508]

All 5 cylinder throats measure .313 and the muzzle measures .311. I didnt slug the cone yet but unless its smaller than the muzzle i'd say the gun isnt the problem. That means theres hope to make a good shooter with this one. I'll keep my eye out for a heavier boolit mold. My powder cabinet wasnt stocked with the 32 in mind so a trip to the local supply house is warranted also.

I see Unique and Bullseye mentioned a couple of times. Are there any other recommended powders that cross caliber lines well? I've read alot about "the load" also so ideally is there something like reddot that i can get more use out of?

[sixshot]

My 32 maggie shoots great with 3 grs of WST (similar to 231) & runs about 950 fps, its a ground squirrels worst nightmare! Bullet is the RCBS 100 gr plain base.

Dick

[Outpost75]

3 grs. of Red Dot is a full load with the 94-grain Meister LFN, or 2.5 grs. with Saeco #325 or RCBS 32-90CM.

[mpbarry1]

FWIW, my 32-20 likes W231 at 3.2 grains under a 115 gr RNFP. It shot better than unique or red dot. You may want to push yours harder, but i would try some 231.

[Fishman]

I have a decent load with H110 . It groups well but does not gain much over 4.4 gr unique which is more efficient.

+1 on the 10 gr of h110 under a 115 gr gas checked bullet. I will have to respectfully disagree with Outpost's blanket statement on this matter, specifically using the Ruger single six. I believe that is a first, as his posts are always excellent.

[olafhardt]

I got a 32 Colt Positive that I hot rodded up to 1135 fps with the Hornady LSWC's. Before I did that l had severely overloaded it, I cut the load 10% to get to 1135. It never would shoot for shucks. I spent a while running aluminum screen thru it and brushing lead out. I haven't shot much since but it did seem better. You might have a leading problem.

[Redd508]

I check my bbl after each range trip and have had zero leading so far. I think i'll try softer alloy before i buy more powder. I've got hp-38, 700x, sr4756, lilgun and 296.

I'm open to advice. If my powders are all way off base then tell me. If my thinking is flawed and the powder is potentially a bigger problem than the alloy let me know that too.

[Green Frog]

I check my bbl after each range trip and have had zero leading so far. I think i'll try softer alloy before i buy more powder. I've got hp-38, 700x, sr4756, lilgun and 296.

I'm open to advice. If my powders are all way off base then tell me. If my thinking is flawed and the powder is potentially a bigger problem than the alloy let me know that too.

If you can't find a good load with HP-38 or 700x, I think you have a gun problem rather than a load problem. I'd be interested to hear (good or bad) how you eventually do with them because by reputation, either of those powders should be ideal for the 32 H&R. As an aside, I wouldn't spend too much time developing a load for 4756 as there is a pretty strong indication it is being discontinued. :(

Several folks have said it before, but I'll repeat... the water dropping step in your casting may be unnecessary. I like straight COWs with just a % or two of tin added and then size and lube like they drop onto the pad. If your bullets are harder than they need to be and too small, that would create some of the conditions you are observing.

Froggie

[mpbarry1]

hp-38 = W231, try it.

[Redd508]

My initial run was with 700x but my alloy was wq coww. I figured it was too hard and the 700x didnt fully burn. I thought the powder wasnt ideal but if yall say otherwise i'll try it again with soft lead and a tighter crimp.

As to boolit size, i'm loading unsized cuz they drop at .313. I can run a batch without water dropping and load half each 700x and hp38 for a comparison. I know better than to change up too many variables at once but i did it anyway. So this round will be same bullet different powders.

[Old Dawg]

My first .32 H&R was an NEF with a 6 inch barrel. The bullet was the SAECO 98 gr. SWC that weighed 104 gr as cast from wheel weights. Chronographed MV was exactly 1200 fps with a very low standard deviation. IIRC max load was 6.1 gr Blue Dot. It was a full power load but there was never any problem with primers, extraction, etc. I tumble lubed with JPW and after firing the first 500 rounds there was zero leading. Accuracy, 2" at 25 yards was about average for me as I am not a very good handgun shooter.

I think Lil' Gun is far too slow for those bullets.