Not just another 44 mag vs 45 colt thread

[singleshot]

I'm looking at getting another lever gun, and was debating between 44 mag and 45 colt.

One question, I was wondering about the differences in the design of the rim, et al. Is there anything inherent about the rim and groove design of each cartridge that makes them more or less reliable cycling in a lever gun? Any issues with brass life of one over the other? I have yet to see any of my 44 mag brass die after nearly a dozen loadings in each.

Also, does the fact that most people will want to be able to load 44 spec in a 44 mag lever gun make the action less reliable vs the single-length 45 colt? I know that cartridge length is critical to the loading/feeding/ejection of that action.

Thoughts? Are these non-issues?

[hicard]

I would think that the 44 would be more versatile but the sights can only be set for one or the other (44 spcl or 44 mag) at a time. So, my vote is for the 45 Colt.

[Hickok]

I had a Marlin Cowboy in .45 Colt that had a oversized chamber. Ruined cases pretty quick. They had a big bulge on one side after firing. Sent it back to Marlin, but they said it was up to spec. I sold it. I don't know if the newer ones are corrected or not.

I now have a Win. Model 94 in .44 mag, and it is a great gun, but they can be hard to find.

[btroj]

I have a Marlin CB in 45 Colt. Love it. Yes, it has a Huge chamber and bulges cases. I can get better than 10 loads on a case and like the gun well enough to look past that flaw.

Marlin 44s have a bad reputation due to a slow twist, they don't shoot bullets over 240 gr very well at ranges past 50 yards.

Don't own a Rossi at all.

I would decide based on what gun you want and what gun you have moulds for.

[jmort]

There is no significant difference performance wise. Standard pressure .45 Colt is similar to .44 Special and high end loads are similar between .45 Colt and .44 mag. I would get .45 Colt but either one works real good. Many myths about .45 Colt brass which is plenty strong.

[runfiverun]

I just switch my powder measure back and forth between my 44 mag and 45 colt tool heads.
all I see in difference is the 45 colt boolit weighs 10 grs more and is a little bigger in diameter.
one my 44 mag leverguns will feed 44 specials, two won't. [one will feed overly long swc's the other 2 wont]
my model 94 44 mag requires overly large boolits, my rossi model 92 don't. [my browning likes 431]
I don't have my model 94 in 45 colt anymore.
but have 2 24" rifles and a carbine in model 92.
SHRUG
if you see anything there to make up your mind about any differences use it.

[gon2shoot]

The 45 will tend to handle heavier boolits if you lean that way.

[Bullshop Junior]

I have a Marlin CB in 45 Colt. Love it. Yes, it has a Huge chamber and bulges cases. I can get better than 10 loads on a case and like the gun well enough to look past that flaw.

Marlin 44s have a bad reputation due to a slow twist, they don't shoot bullets over 240 gr very well at ranges past 50 yards.

Don't own a Rossi at all.

I would decide based on what gun you want and what gun you have moulds for.

What year Marlin? They changed to a faster rate of twist on both the 44mag and 444 aftee a few years of the slow twist...

[Bullshop Junior]

How about another option, and get a 454 casull?

[bigted]

id say it boils down to personal taste. which "talks" to you? either will take 300+ grain boolits. if ya don't have it yet ... you can look around and get the twist you need for the boolits ya want to shoot. you will play hob getting a revolver and a rifle to perform best with a single type of loaded cartridges ... meaning that the revolver will pick a certain load and the rifle will decide on a different load ... but it is possible to have both perform mediocre with a single load. I would load for the rifle and if it is good for revolver performance then I think I would just suffer along with how the revolver shoots ... giving the heads up to the rifle first.

[lar45]

The 44mag has a larger rim in relation to the diameter of it's body. I don't know if this would be a factor in more reliable extraction or not??
I have a Puma in 45 Colt that is stainless with the 24" octagon barrel. The ejected cases from it look fine.

[ReloaderFred]

I have a couple Marlin's in .44 Magnum, a Winchester 94 in .44 Magnum and two Marlin 1894CB's in .45 Colt. I shoot the .45 Colts much more than any of the .44's. The .45 Colt rifles are just plain fun guns..

Hope this helps.

Fred

[Nobade]

After messing with both for many years, here is my take:

44 Mag - slightly easier brass availability. Barrels normally run .432"+ in the grooves. Bullet moulds normally are .430" or so. Options? Recut moulds, buy custom ones, or paper patch. At full power, these rifles are pretty impressive.

45 Colt - huge chambers, best to anneal the brass well and only neck size. My Marlin fired cases body is nearly the same diameter as the rim. Fired cases will accept a .458" boolit no problem, and shoots quite well with them. Barrels normally run .452" or so in the grooves, so bullet moulds are no problem to get. Off the shelf works fine. Once you get your brass fireformed and don't resize it, the blowby into the action and your face stops. If you really want to, the 45 can be loaded to the same power level as the 44 and they do about the same thing. Modern brass is plenty strong and holds 35,000 psi loads no problem.

Which to get? Do you have now or in the future have a desire to own a matching revolver? The type of that may determine your choice. Which bullet moulds do you own already? Which one can you find a stash of brass for? Which one can you find a good deal on the rifle you want? They both work, just need to have the right techniques applied to them to work to their potential.

Currently I like the Marlin 45 Colt with black powder to go with my Colt SAA, and the 44 Mag rifle uses paper patched boolits over way more 4227 than the books say to use, seated out to touch the lands, which is WAY too long to work through the action. It duplicates a 445 Supermag and shoots into less than 3 inches at 200M. Lots of ways to go with these two!

-Nobade

[osteodoc08]

I absolutely love my marlin CB and carbine. I've got a 4x burris on the carbine. Both are awesome. The carbine is a good woods gun. Love them.

[GBertolet]

Get the 45 Colt, especially if you reload. My 45 Colt Marlin chamber is slightly oversized also, about .006. I delt with it by using .453 or .454 cast bullets, which fill the chamber better, giving better bullet alignment with the bore. Partialy sizing the cases the length of the bullet works wonders in improving case life, and controling gas blowback when using light loadings. It's an easy fix for the big chambers.

2001, when my Marlin was made, both the 44 and 45 had 1 in 38 twist rifling. A little slow, but according to Greenhill's formula, the 45 cal can handle heavier bullets better than the 44 cal can. I only use 250 gr bullets in my 45 Colt, so this point is moot for me. In top loadings, the 44 Mag and 45 Colt have near identical ballistics.

[singleshot]

Thanks for all the input! I currently have a Ruger 77/44 and SBH combo that I take hunting with me, so I may just go with a 45 colt.

I was a little worried by the tiny rim on the 45 colt, but it sounds like that's a non-issue. If I only have 1 45 LC rifle, neck-sizing will be no problem, so I can mitigate the over-sized chamber issue. Beagling Lee moulds is easy, so I'll be able to drop whatever size boolits the rifle will take.

[truckboss]

I have two marlin cowboys in 45 colt a 20 and 24 inch tube.Huge chambers,I can chamber a 461 in both .Both will shoot 2 inch groups at 100 yards with the buckhorns and full length sized cases and a 454 bullet.YMMV.Nothing Wrong with a 44,like with any gun tweak you load and loading technique and you should be able to get the max out of any gun.

[Deep Six]

They both have the same rim diameter so you get a lot more bite on the 44. I know that 44 is sure easier to run through the press than 45 is. As far as feeding goes, my Rossi jams up with short bullets in the 44 special case but anything with a nose of 0.350-ish or longer is fine. It feeds any 44 mag with a nose of up to 0.430-ish without issue. Basically anything that will fit in a Smith 29 or Super Blackhawk cylinder will feed with the exception of short nose 44 special. I hear you can tune the rifle for cartridge OAL though.

[Mk42gunner]

My Marlin 1894CB in .45 Colt has never failed to feed, extract or eject a case; I don't think there is any need to worry about the proportion of case to rim diameter.

My rifle was made in 2000, and is sufficiently accurate for me. With my plinking load it is pretty much put the bead where you want the hole, The hotter deer load with 2400 and a 452424 is close enough that if I ever do use it for deer there will be no excuses.

I personally see no need for using anything heavier than the standard 250-260 grain projectile; if I want to hunt something that needs more power than a slightly warm .45 Colt, I have other rifles to use. But I don't live in elk or big bear country either.

Robert

[retiredPO]

I faced the same dilema.... So I bought both... went with the Rossi..... the 44 is the 20 inch oct. barrel... the 45 lc is 20 inch reg. barrel. Still cant decide which one I like better.... with a little flushing and cleaning they both cycle and chamber and shoot beautifully.... no oversize cassings with the rossi either.... and the price makes 2 affordable.

[Hickok]

I personally see no need for using anything heavier than the standard 250-260 grain projectile; if I want to hunt something that needs more power than a slightly warm .45 Colt, I have other rifles to use. But I don't live in elk or big bear country either.

Robert+1 to what you said Robert. I got into the heavy boolit thing for both the .44 and the .45 Colt for a short while.
In revolvers it didn't take long to find out shooting 300-325 gr boolits at 1100-1200 fps took the fun out of shooting real quick. After one 50 round shooting session off the bench, my shooting hand actually swelled up! Went back to 250-260 gr boolits at 900-1200fps, depending on the load, and enjoy the shooting! These loads will kill anything that I may encounter in WV.

[W.R.Buchanan]

My personal choice would be a .44 Marlin CB model. I have an 1894 CB with 24" bbl. and it shoots really well. I can shoot Specials or Magnums interchangeably however it get mostly lightly loaded magnums so I don't have to clean the chamber that often. They also made some of these guns with 20" Octagon Barrels. They all have 1:38 twist barrels.

You've read the problems with the .45 LC gun having big chambers. the .44's don't have this problem. The groove dia on my gun is .431 so I shoot boolits sized to .432. I just signed up for a Mihec 429244 mould that drops at .434 so they can be sized to .432 and not have any holidays. a 260 gr boolit at 1600 fps will do anything you need to do in NA, including shooting for fun.

You already have a 77/44 and an SBH, why not add a Levergun to the rack in the same caliber and that way you won't have to tool up for another caliber that is not that much different from what you already have.

Makes sense. I had a Marlin 44 Carbine and sold it but I love my 1894CB and SBH Bisley and BH Bisley. They are all keepers, and I would like to also add a 77/44 for a knock around gun, and to use in bad weather.

Sound familiar?

Randy

[Grapeshot]

I had the 1873 Uberti carbine I bought rebarreled with a Douglas barrel and a tighter .45 Colt chamber. The barrel sported a 1:16 twist and outshot the Marlin .45 Colt rifle I bought 16 years later. I sold the Marlin and I still shoot my '73 with great results.

[Ilwil]

The .45 Colt cartridge was designed in 1873 as a revolver cartridge. I believe that the reason it wasn't used in rifles then was because metallurgy then couldn't produce a small rim that wouldn't be ripped off the case by a rifle extractor. Now, modern metallurgy is such that .45 Colt rims work just fine in rifles. I have been shooting them in rifles for many years with never a problem, in Italian, Brazilian, and now my Henry Big Boy. Oh, by the way; what an absolute sweetheart of a rifle. Accurate and gorgeous.

[TXGunNut]

I have a good Trapper in 45 Colt that will do anything I'd ask a 44 Mag to do. Nothing against the 44, if I didn't have other guns in either caliber I'd possibly go with the 44 but the 45 Colt is a sentimental favorite. I've often lusted after the 44 Spl and 44-40, never been much interested in the 44 Mag.

[runfiverun]

actually they changed the whole case design.
went from balloon head cases [which held more black powder] to a standard webbed case,
they also made the rim larger in diameter.
this made the round feasible for lever guns.

[ReloaderFred]

What actually made the .45 Colt viable for rifle use was cutting an extractor groove in the case. The original cases didn't have one, which is why the round was never originally chambered in the 1866 and 1873 Winchester rifles. There was nothing for the extractor to grab hold of.

Hope this helps.

Fred

[singleshot]

Thanks for all the comments and great insight. I learned several new things on this thread.

I really like the 44 mag, but I think for the levergun I'm leaning toward the 45 LC. I have a lonely 45 cal mold that drops 260gr boolits that doesn't get used anymore and I'm thinking of pressing it back into service.

Thanks again! Great thread!