Published % of arsenic in shot ??

[Wayne S]

Is there any published data listing the % of arsenic in chilled & magnum shot ? And are there any other commercial sources for low amounts of As ??
AND YES, I KNOW, C/O WW's are a source

[felix]

Contact Rotometals at the very top of this page. They prolly have contracts making magnum shot lead for the commercial shotgun loaders who make their own shot from the bars. ... felix

[Wayne S]

Thank you

[tonyjones]

I found a MSDS for "reclaimed lead shot, reload lead, magnum shot" at the Mayco Industries website. The As content was listed as 0.1 to 2.0 %. I would assume both chilled and magnum shot to contain around 1 % As. Too much would be an unnecessary expense and too little would not yield a round pellet. IIRC, BPI literature once stated that US produced chilled and magnum shot contained 1 % to 1.5 % As. Again, for our purposes, I would assume 1 %. 0.1 to 0.2 % is plenty for cast bullet use as a grain modifier. More than 0.25 % is a waste and may lead to deleterious effects.

Regards,

Tony

[KYCaster]

Check Bumpo's Lead Alloy Calculator, IIRC, he has what you want.

Jerry

[Defcon-One]

Bumpo says: Lawrence Magnum shot 4% (correction, 1.25%) Arsenic. Chilled shot, about half of that.

FYI: COWW may not have any Arsenic at all according to testing that I have had done!

Arsenic is just a grain refiner, you do not need it to water drop harden, the Antimony is the real hardener!

[waksupi]

In the purifying of lead, trace arsenic is one element that cannot be removed by common processing methods. There is always a trace, even in pure lead.

[bumpo628]

Bumpo says: Lawrence Magnum shot 4% Arsenic. Chilled shot, about half of that.

FYI: COWW may not have any Arsenic at all according to testing that I have had done!

Arsenic is just a grain refiner, you do not need it to water drop harden, the Antimony is the real hardener!

Defcon, the 4% was for the antimony.
I found an msds sheet that stated the magnum shot had 1.25% arsenic, but I'll need to search to find it again.

Since the antimony in the chilled shot was half the magnum, I assumed the arsenic was half as well. Kind of a wild guess....but I could not find any arsenic data on the chilled. The source in the pop-up note that I listed in the magnum shot antimony box no longer displays the antimony values for the different shot sizes.

[Wayne S]

Bumpo says: Lawrence Magnum shot 4% Arsenic. Chilled shot, about half of that.

FYI: COWW may not have any Arsenic at all according to testing that I have had done!

Arsenic is just a grain refiner, you do not need it to water drop harden, the Antimony is the real hardener!
Then explain why every article going back 20 + years and started in either Handloader" or The American Rifleman says that As in small amounts is required for hardening cast either by HT or WD.??

[Wayne S]

Defcon, the 4% was for the antimony.
I found an msds sheet that stated the magnum shot had 1.25% arsenic, but I'll need to search to find it again.

. Please do and post, Magnum Shot with the 1.25% (As) will go a long way when only about .025 or 1/4 of 1 % is needed

[felix]

Then explain why every article going back 20 + years and started in either Handloader" or The American Rifleman says that As in small amounts is required for hardening cast either by HT or WD.??

Easy to explain when the very first article is read in detail. The chances are VERY GOOD that the feeds used were close to lab grade. Did they use grain modifiers other than arsenic, for example? If so, on all accounts, then the statement would tend to be correct as stated. However, when junk lead is used, there is no telling what is in it that would act as a grain modifier besides arsenic. In general, for our boolit practices, the amount of slush stage determines the amount of POTENTIAL hardness gained by rapid cooling. ... felix

[fastfire]

felix, please elaborate on this I am learning here.
(The amount of slush stage) determines the amount of POTENTIAL hardness gained by rapid cooling. ... felix
I realize the slush stage is just before the liquid stage.
Thank You



Easy to explain when the very first article is read in detail. The chances are VERY GOOD that the feeds used were close to lab grade. Did they use grain modifiers other than arsenic, for example? If so, on all accounts, then the statement would tend to be correct as stated. However, when junk lead is used, there is no telling what is in it that would act as a grain modifier besides arsenic. In general, for our boolit practices, the amount of slush stage determines the amount of POTENTIAL hardness gained by rapid cooling. ... felix

[felix]

Yes, the slush stage is exactly that between the totally solid and totally liquid stages. The slush stage is caused by a poor marriage of components. When all components are satisfied PERFECTLY as ONE individual unit, then that unit won't be affected as would be as individual components, no matter the externals like pressure and temperature. This is the closest an ALLOY can become like a COMPOUND which share both electronics and magnetics, and not just magnetics in in the sense of an alloy. ... felix

[fastfire]

OK, I kind of understand that, not being a Metallurgist.


Yes, the slush stage is exactly that between the totally solid and totally liquid stages. The slush stage is caused by a poor marriage of components. When all components are satisfied PERFECTLY as ONE individual unit, then that unit won't be affected as would be as individual components, no matter the externals like pressure and temperature. This is the closest an ALLOY can become like a COMPOUND which share both electronics and magnetics, and not just magnetics in in the sense of an alloy. ... felix

[Defcon-One]

My error. I grabbed data from the wrong cell! Yes, It was 1.25% As for Magnum, half that for Chilled!

Sorry

**********


Then explain why every article going back 20 + years and started in either Handloader" or The American Rifleman says that As in small amounts is required for hardening cast either by HT or WD.??


The best explaination would be that they are wrong! But, I suspect that the quote was not accurate. They probably said it aids in hardening or something like that. It is definitely not required! Antimony on the other hand is required for heat treating. Maybe you are confusing the two as I did above?


Need a few quotes (Fryxell from his book):

"In addition, arsenic (As) is commonly added to industrial lead-tin-antimony alloys to improve the strength (this strength enhancement is only observed when As is added to a Sb containing alloy, As is virtually worthless in the absence of Sb). Arsenic also significantly enhances the ability of the alloy to be hardened via heat treatment. All that is needed is 0.1% (more does no good)....."

Or this (Same source):

"...This age hardening of antimony containing alloys can be accelerated at higher temperatures, i.e. heat treating the bullets. This is most commonly done by sizing the bullets first (since lead alloys work soften, and hence sizing would negate a significant portion of the hardness imparted by the heat treating process) then heating them to about 450 deg. F in the oven and quenching by dumping them in cold water."

Also Note: Size, then heat treat.

RCBS say the same things. I can quote them if you want!