LEE 356-95-rf and Titewad in 9mm

[tazman]

I just got the results this afternoon on the new Lee 95 grain boolit in my 9mm. The light bullethas the potential to really stretch a pound of lead. Approximately 20 extra bullets per pound over a 120 tc.
Short story-my Taurus pt92afs loves it.
I sized to .357 using Lee liquid alox for lube.
I loaded some Titegroup at4.0 to 4.7 grains to work up a basic load and it worked well. Best grouping boollet I have used in my 9mm yet.
The surprise powder was an unusual selection using some Titewad I recently purchased.
Titewad is often purchased by mistake when looking for Titegroup. It is about the same speed as Red Dot so I thought to give it a try.
I loaded 3.8 grains under the Lee bullet. Function was flawless and showed no signs of pressure in my pistol. Accuracy was exceptional. This is the first time I have been able to shoot under 2 and 1/2 inch groups with the 9 to date.
My groups with this load were 1 and 1/4 inches at 10 yards. After adjusting for point of impact this load continued to shoot the center out of the target consistently.
I tried my old loads to see if I was just having a good day and the groups were the old size I normally shoot.(2-1/2 to 3 inches).
It seems the combination of a fast powder and a light bullet worked out again.
Sorry I can't give a velocity as I don't currently have access to a chronograph.
Disclaimer: the loads listed are for my pistol only and are not suggested to be safe in anyone else's pistol. Use at your own risk!
PS: I tried it in my 357 also with light loads and it shot well. My mold drops them at .359

[FergusonTO35]

Sweet! I'm going to order that mold on payday. Titewad is a well kept secret in powders. It's the best I've ever used in .32 Auto and I bet it's a dandy in .380 and snub nose .38 Special also.

[rintinglen]

Titewad works well in 32 S&W Long, 38 Special and .380 too. I haven't loaded any 32 ACP for a while, but I think it'll do well there. I have been particularly impressed with 2.4 grains under a 148 grain WC in 38 special.

[FergusonTO35]

Just ordered my mold. Can't wait!

[tazman]

I predict you will like it a lot.
I think I will cast up about 500 more of them this afternoon. We have some really nasty weather here just now.

[revwitha9]

I've been working up some 120 gr 9mm with Titewad. 2.3 gr, 2.5 gr and 2.7 gr all cycled my cz without any problems. No pressure signs with these light loads. I was plinking 6" steel plates at 15 yds! Will get my chronograph out this weekend to check velocity. It works in my 1911 under 230 gr boolits too. No complaints with Titewad!

[tazman]

I used 3.4 of Titewad under a 120gr tc in my 9mm and got the best accuracy thus far with that boolit. Great function and no pressure signs in my pistol. I really wish I had access to a chronograph. I would love to know the velocity.
When I was working up the 2.7 grain load would not function my 9mm. Oh well each pistol is a law to itself.

[revwitha9]

I'll post my results with those loads over my chronograph. The difference may be the bullet seating; 1.05 coal for that boolit in my cz.

[tazman]

Thanks for that. I am looking forward to getting some numbers.
My coal is nearly identical to yours. Less than .o10 difference so the results should be similar as far as velocity.
I haven't had any trouble with feeding, the 2.7 grain load would not work my slide.
I have found that my pistol has a fairly large chamber and will feed bullets that are larger than average. This may also be part of the reason I need more powder.

[KSCowboy]

I'm interested in this bullet but can't find a reliable picture any place. Could you post a picture of this bullet? Did you get the 2 or 6 cavity mold?
Thanks!

[tazman]

I'm interested in this bullet but can't find a reliable picture any place. Could you post a picture of this bullet? Did you get the 2 or 6 cavity mold?
Thanks!
Here you go. I got a 6 cavity mold as it is for the 9mm.

97124

[KSCowboy]

Thanks, I will get me one of those!

[revwitha9]

Tazman, ran those 120 gr tc boolits with 3.4 gr of Titewad over my chronograph. 971.5 fps average. Wasnt too impressed with accuracy @ 25 yds. The 2.7 gr load produced much better accuracy with an average 906 fps velocity. Looks like my titewad plinking load!

[FergusonTO35]

3.4 grains might be pushing it a bit with Titewad. I think it really shines in the small capacity, lower pressure cartridges such as .32 Auto.

[tazman]

Tazman, ran those 120 gr tc boolits with 3.4 gr of Titewad over my chronograph. 971.5 fps average. Wasnt too impressed with accuracy @ 25 yds. The 2.7 gr load produced much better accuracy with an average 906 fps velocity. Looks like my titewad plinking load!

Thanks for posting the velocity data.
Doesn't seem to be much of a difference in speed for the difference in powder. I am given to understand that happens if you are approaching the max load for your pistol. Did you see any evidence of overpressure?

Glad you found a good economical load. Each pistol is a law unto itself. Mine is just different from yours is all. That is why we work up loads in our own guns.
Mine seems to like higher velocities for accuracy and function with most loads. Now I really wish I had access to a chronograph.

[tazman]

3.4 grains might be pushing it a bit with Titewad. I think it really shines in the small capacity, lower pressure cartridges such as .32 Auto.

Ramshot competition is right next to titewad on the burn rate chart. AA lists 3.4-3.7 for their 124gr bullet loads using ramshot competition so 3.4 of titewad for a 120 shouldn't be an issue and it wasn't in my pistol.
As I stated in a previous post, lighter loads would not even function my slide.

[revwitha9]

No real significant pressure signs as I could tell. But not really interested in pushing it any higher. The light load works for plinking. I may give it a go with 38 spl 105 swc.

[tazman]

With that cartridge I just keep it nice and light. All I look for is accuracy and I could care less about speed.
38 special is my favorite practice boolit.
By the way, the 95 grain LEE boolit works well in the 38 when appropriately sized. Even less recoil.

[FergusonTO35]

Guys using this boolit in the 9mm, what OAL are you loading to?

[tazman]

For the Lee 356-95-rf my oal is 1.010. I just ran 70 of theses through my Taurus pt92 yesterday with nary a malfunction.

[FergusonTO35]

Wow, that's pretty short!

[UNIQUEDOT]

I've had that mold for a few weeks and have been planning to put it to use and I've also got some titewad in my powder bin, but hadn't really considered it for pistol loading...til I saw this thread. I'm more interested in trying it in the .380 though as I have more than enough 9's loaded up.

[UNIQUEDOT]

Wow, that's pretty short!




It's a short boolit.

[tazman]

Wow, that's pretty short!

As Ferguson stated, it is a short bullet.
Look at the picture I posted on the first page. I know it is hard to see but the bullet sides stay straight until about a sixteenth past the top lube groove. I have a short throat in my barrel so I have to have the flat side even with the mouth of my case to feed. Even then there isn't much bullet inside the case compared to the 120tc.

[tazman]

I've had that mold for a few weeks and have been planning to put it to use and I've also got some titewad in my powder bin, but hadn't really considered it for pistol loading...til I saw this thread. I'm more interested in trying it in the .380 though as I have more than enough 9's loaded up.

There is another post on here somewhere about a member who is using this boolit in a 380 using titewad and loves it. I think I saw it about 4 days ago, but I don't believe he posted data.
Load data should be similar to red dot and slightly less than bullseye by weight.
I love both the powder and boolit for 9mm and 38 special.

[FergusonTO35]

Today I loaded up a box of these with 3.4 grains IMR 700X and OAL of 1.025. I pan lubed the boolits with 60/40 alox and beeswax and loaded as cast. Hope I can try em out tomorrow!!

[tazman]

Today I loaded up a box of these with 3.4 grains IMR 700X and OAL of 1.025. I pan lubed the boolits with 60/40 alox and beeswax and loaded as cast. Hope I can try em out tomorrow!!

If you are loading those in a 9mm the powder charge may be too light to work well. My Lyman manual shows 4.5 grains of 700x as a starting load for the Lee 102rn with a max of 5.0.

Let me know how it works out for you.

[FergusonTO35]

Shot 'em today out of my Kel-Tec PF9 and they work great! 100% function, practically no kick, and the same accuracy and POI as my usual 356-120/3.2 grains Bullseye. And to top it off the brass only goes 4-5 feet instead of into the next county as usual. Next up I'm going to develop a carry load for them.

[tazman]

Let me know what you come up with for the carry load. I find this very interesting.

[FergusonTO35]

I sure will. My standard 9mm carry load is 3.5 grains Bullseye/Lee 356-120. It clocks 980-1000 fps out of my pistols. I'm going to start with the same charge, chronograph it, and shoot some bullseyes. The PF9 and other mini 9's I think really shine with this type of boolit.

Another thing: is there a machinist drawing of this boolit anywhere?

[tazman]

It is basically the ranch dog 100. So close as to be the same thing.
98259

[FergusonTO35]

Nice. I really hope the decide to copy his 9mm, .357, and .30 WCF Boolits as well.

[tazman]

I would like to get hold of a Lee mold similar to the Lyman 356637 147gr to try out but as yet they don't make one.
I would even like to get 15 0r 20 of that boolit to try out to see how they work in my 9mm.

[FergusonTO35]

Yesterday I molded some more of these Boolits and tried dip lubing them with LLA and mineral spirits. I dipped them to a little above the top groove and let them dry. Checked them after church and the LLA had dried to a gummy consistency which is just right in my experience. Hopefully the dip lube version will shoot as well as with standard lube, it's alot easier and faster to be sure.

I also measured a couple of my boolits with a caliper. Here are the somewhat imprecise dimensions:
Overall length: .400
Bearing surface length: .125
Ogive length: .275
Meplat width: .250

Compare that to the 356-120-TC:
Overall length: .558
Bearing surface length: .258
Ogive length: .300
Meplat width: .210

[tazman]

Very close to the ranch dog diagram measurements. Just a few thousandths here and there. Just enough to change the weight to 95 grains I expect.

I cast another batch of these today myself. I gave them a thin coat of LLA and am waiting until tomorrow for them to dry. Using the range scrap I recently acquired, they dropped at .357 so I don't need to size them, just lube and load.
I am definitely going to have to get access to a chronograph.

[FergusonTO35]

A chronograph is one of the most useful things you can have. It quickly dispenses with the hopelessly optimistic published velocities of factory ammo and reloading data, and also reveals hidden gems.

[FergusonTO35]

Ok, I fired this boolit out of my Kel-Tec today with 3.5 grains Bullseye, Remington primer, and loaded to 1.025. Here's the readout from my chrono:

Low: 917.8
High: 965.0
Average: 938.8
Extreme Spread: 47.2
Standard Deviation: 15.3

That's ok but I know it can do better. I loaded up another box with 3.6 grains of Titegroup, hopefully I can try 'em tomorrow.

[FergusonTO35]

Sorry the pics are sideways. Don't know why that happened or how to fix it.

[tazman]

How was your accuracy?

[FergusonTO35]

Accuracy was very good, probably better than my usual load with the Lee 356-120-TC.

[tazman]

Keep the results coming.
I am working with this boolit also but don't have a chrono so can't post much results.

[FergusonTO35]

Tried 3.6 grains Titegroup today and was reminded why Ii've never been impressed with this powder. Lower velocity, higher spread, and the barrel and empty shells are hot. I'll try Titewad next, start around 3.2 grains and work my way up. Here's the results:
Low: 850.4
High: 936.3
Average: 910.8
Extreme Spread: 45.91
Standard Deviation: 34.48

[tazman]

I noticed the cases being hotter than normal when loading titegroup as well.
Will be interested in your titewad data.
I had my best results in accuracy with this boolit so far with titewad.
I ended up using 3.7 grains after working up from below where you intend to start. Another poster found his most accurate load to be 2.7. That load wouldn't work my slide but functioned his perfectly and gave him excellent accuracy.
It will be interesting to see where you end up.

[FergusonTO35]

Today I loaded some up with 3.4 grains of Titewad and OAL of 1.030. This load feels fairly intense out of my little Kel-Tec but would probably be a great choice for a larger gun. Not as accurate as the more mild loads I've tried but that's probably just me. The PF9 is not a very strong pistol so I think I'll try for something a little more mild to use in it, ~3.1 grains Titewad might do it. Here's the numbers:

Low: 1007
High: 1059
Average: 1034
Extreme Spread: 51.85
Standard Deviation: 15.3

[tazman]

That's a fast load for a barrel that short. I wonder what it gets from my 5 inch barrel.

Did the brass seem hot? Did you have any pressure signs?
I know I ask a lot of questions, but all knowledge is useful at some point.

The earlier poster was getting about 920fps or so with less than 3 grains of powder.

[FergusonTO35]

Tazman, I am really enjoying this so ask all the questions you want. The brass did not seem hot and there were no pressure signs at all. The load is probably just right for a larger gun but its a little overwhelming for the PF9, which is .380 Auto size and construction. I load ammo for this gun to .38 Special/strong .380 power level which I think is just right. The next load I try will probably be a smaller charge of Titewad with a Federal Gold Medal primer to see if I can get the spread down.

[tazman]

Too much muzzle flash then probably. The lighter load may be just the ticket for your pistol.