.36 cal for 300 yards?

[seekersoftheredmist]

In the market for a new smoke pole.32 or 36 cal is what im considering. This will be mainly for plinking around with but might use it for deer as well. the question i have is how accurate are they to say... 300 yards AND what kind of energy would they have at that distance? enough to knock down steel or even better to ethically take deer sized game? OR would i be better off with a 45 cal ( ive had several) or just get another 50 cal. Im wanting to go with a kentucky style long gun. any help would be much obliged.

[StrawHat]

Of the PRB calibers you mention, I consider the 45 to be marginal and the 50 a better choice for deer. Unless you have the correct twist for the round ball and can load a lot of powder to make it an express rifle.

[Good Cheer]

For longer range round ball shooting a longer barrel in the .54 to .60 range is probably going to work best.

[Nobade]

I do have a .350"X.358" bullet firing rifle, which uses a .349", 300 grain bullet. Propelled by 50 gr. Swiss FFFg, it is essentially a caseless 38-55. Hitting things at 300 yards is easy, if you know the dope. But killing game at that range is not something I would try. It surely has enough momentum to go through a deer, but the trajectory and time of flight are very large. Just like any other black powder powered rifle, keep the shots close - under 150 yards or so in order to have some idea of where to aim. Now if you are talking about a 36 cal roundball gun, then as excess 650 said, 75 yards is a long shot. Balls fall out of the air in a hurry, and get blown around by the wind a lot. They also need to be a lot bigger than you would expect to work well at longer ranges. I am very confident in my 58 cal. ball gun at 100 yards but much past that is kind of pushing it.

-Nobade

[Squeeze]

I have done some testing in some faster twist .32 with maxi's at 100 yards, (TC cherokee 1-30, and some custom inlines 1-34,1-36 twist, I have tried some 1-48 twist, but accuracy is severely diminished) I can get some accuracy on a very calm day, but any wind will drift the bullet easily 6 inches and more. And from the bench, there is a long gap from shot report, to impact report. But under the right conditions, I can get some pretty decent accuracy (at least surprising to me) Im still in the research and development stages for this, and personally, I wouldnt hunt deer with less that abt a .45, maybe a .40 in some cases, and where I hunt all shots are well under 100 yard. Next time out, I'll have to bring a box of damp newsprint and do some ballistics testing at range. (been wanting to anyway) and eventually compare different calibur's and bullets

[Chihuahua Floyd]

I agree with the above comments on keeping the 32 and 36 calibers out of the woods during deer season. I know deer have been killed with them but its not about how little gun you can use. And I personally will not take a 300 yard shot with a muzzle loader at a deer.
CF

[Junior1942]

I agree with the above comments on keeping the 32 and 36 calibers out of the woods during deer season. I know deer have been killed with them but its not about how little gun you can use. And I personally will not take a 300 yard shot with a muzzle loader at a deer.
CFWhat CF said.

[Omnivore]

Redmist; I'd say get a 50 cal and then learn to load it well, shoot it accurately, and care for it well. The 50 caliber patched round ball, driven hard, is your starting caliber in my opinion. Conical bullets in 45 will do the job too. For what it's worth; WA Fish and Game regs lists 40 as the minimum caliber in a muzzleloader for deer and 45 for anything larger. Using those minimum calibers, you'd want elongated bullets pushed fairly fast, to reach out that far with authority. Think 45-70...

If you're talking 18th century style shooting, it's a ball, and the longer range shooting needs a bigger ball. Sixty caliber or more will do better on long shots. We've all heard of the 200 or 300 yard shots in the American Revolution (famous because of their extreme rarity) but the objective there was to put a man out of the fight, not to anchor and retrieve a big game animal. Very different tasks, and the latter requires a decent caliber and better shot placement.

[Hanshi]

A .36 prb at 300yards! No way. A heavy .36 bullet, yes. Speaking of deer, I've always found the .45 shooting a prb to be an excellent choice. It's also a fair all around caliber, too. If I didn't want a .45 (!!!), I'd go up to the .50 rather than down to the .40 though it, too, can be made to suffice.

[DIRT Farmer]

I have hit the 300 meter chicken with my 40. Then I put the rifle up and started bragging. A 54 round ball will do reasonably well to 200 if you practice enough to learn it. Wind and miraige will rule out hunting with it at that range.

[seekersoftheredmist]

Just a quick question: how many of yall commenting actually shoot "long range" Muzzle loaders? 200 yards and beyond? out here we dont consider "long range" until you get past 600 yards. Just wondering. many of the replies have said NO to shooting past 75 yards! that made me laugh. also the bullet i was going to use would be a paper patched variety.if a gun will shoot moa or less at 75-100 then it should be able to hit a 14" plate at 300 yards. the muzzle velocity should be comparable to a 38-55 and its a proven mid range (600 easily and in) round. Please list your experiences to help prove your opinion with some technical data too ( for example: grains of powder, weight of projectile, length of barrel, sight system , ect) thanks fellers!!!

[mooman76]

Maybe if you had given this info to start with, you would have gotten better answers. Most as myself probably thought you were talking RBs or regular conicals since that that is what is usually used.

[StrawHat]

Just a quick question: how many of yall commenting actually shoot "long range" Muzzle loaders? 200 yards and beyond? out here we dont consider "long range" until you get past 600 yards. Just wondering. many of the replies have said NO to shooting past 75 yards! that made me laugh. also the bullet i was going to use would be a paper patched variety.if a gun will shoot moa or less at 75-100 then it should be able to hit a 14" plate at 300 yards. the muzzle velocity should be comparable to a 38-55 and its a proven mid range (600 easily and in) round. Please list your experiences to help prove your opinion with some technical data too ( for example: grains of powder, weight of projectile, length of barrel, sight system , ect) thanks fellers!!!

You want credentials to back up our recommendations and you provided none of your own.

If you already have formed an opinion and choose not to give adequate information about the question, don't whine about the answers you receive.

[Nobade]

Yep, that's not a very good way to get along here. Besides, didn't you read my post above? I directly address what you are saying. Heck, hitting torso plates at 750 yd. isn't terribly hard with that rifle. But there's no way I would use it for hunting past about 150 yd, and preferably a lot closer. There is a big difference between fooling around shooting steel and killing game.

-Nobade

[GARD72977]

Give him a break guys. I read the post and it can be taken harsh but I doubt that is how it was intended. Im very interested in this post. I have been wanting to do a small bore fast twist. Other interests and lack of money have been in the way. At least I can read this thread where other people are having the fun I want to!

[Rooster59]

I have no credentials on the subject except hours on end as spectator when my friends are shooting BPCR matches. Two of them are top shooters out to 1,000 yards with heavy caliber and none would hunt beyond 200 with the same gun. Hitting a steel plate and ethical hunting at the same yardage are two different things.

It can probably be done with a small caliber front stuffer but boy would it take a lot of work, money, practice, and close to divine intervention.

Good luck with the effort and don't forget to post pictures.

[Geraldo]

Sounds to me like you've got your mind made up. Build it and let us know if it works or if it's just beating your head against the wall.

You want 300 yard experience hunting, look up IdahoRon's posts and see how its done.

[Squeeze]

Ive been wanting to have a fast twist .36 inline built and shoot either paper patch, or the MMP sabots for a .32 in a .36. maybe in abt a year. I DO have .416 and .45 smokeless builds that will shoot to 600+, still fine tuning them. So many toys, so little range time..

[johnson1942]

talking on the internet is no different than talking in person, at leaste it should be that way. if you ruffle feathers in person you will do it on the internet. but you shouldnt be in either case. so much for that. match your bullet to the twist you have, size it right, wrap it right and use the right powder charge and it will reach out their. i have a 1/22 twist 50 that can shoot a 720 grain bullet and when i sighted it in at 200 yards i was very surprised at how much the wind moved that bullet sideways. i was hopeing it would plow right through the wind but it didnt. i suspect a 38/55 bullet wouldnt have gone sideways any diff. that my big 50 did. i like your ideas and have been thinking about a fast twist like your talking about. research every detail that involves makeing the perfect long distance gun and it should shoot well. if you knocking over a target the big bores will have you hands down but getting it their is about the same. i have learned so much from the posts on this site, down to fine details and i will continue to learn here and thanks every one for the miles of input i carefully go through. keep it comming

[Bullshop]

Ive been wanting to have a fast twist .36 inline built and shoot either paper patch, or the MMP sabots for a .32 in a .36. maybe in abt a year. I DO have .416 and .45 smokeless builds that will shoot to 600+, still fine tuning them. So many toys, so little range time..
A couple years ago there was a fella on the Dirty White Boys forum that rebarreled a White inline to 35 cal. He had me make him up some 290gn boolits for it and he did some fine shooting with it.
35 cal raised quite a ruckus with the BPCR guys about the same time. Something about the 35 Maynard not being legal for competition but shooting perty darn good.
I had a 40 cal White and it was easily the equal of a modern 40/65 quick twist shooting 400gn boolits.

[seekersoftheredmist]

Sounds Fun and interesting Squeeze. Let me know how it project progresses and if and when you get it completed! Good luck with the build!!

[seekersoftheredmist]

Now to clear the SMOKE in here.... OBVIOUSLY some have had there glutimus maximus chapped over something i said..... ? still cant figure that out but anyhow.... To those that have responded with their firsthand knowledge thanks and i will be watching for more advice from you. Let me say this, i am NOT a "noob" nor a novice to black powder and or guns! been shooting them and fixing them ( im the gunsmith here at the gunshop here in town) for many years. Most of the Whitetail I kill are with a smoke pole. Most of them are beyond the 200 yard mark. All of them ( knock on wood and thank the Lord) have either fell where they were standing or went no further than 40 yards and then piled up. Some of these were from inline, some were from side hammer. From experience a few summers ago i tested a maxiball shot into 3 water jugs and then behind that wet newspaper. the 45 cal boolit went through all the filled milk jugs and into 2 inches of newsprint flattening out very very well. ( thats a lot of penetration for 85 grains of powder) seeing that made a believer out of me as to just how far these guns can shoot and perform. I have however never shot a 36 cal at a distance over 150 yards and that seemed rather monotonous as the hits were rather easy as we were shooting cantaloupes at those distances. My sons and i like to shoot regularly and enjoy finding out just how accurate they can be. It is MY desire BEFORE i purchase OR Build a long rifle ( kentucky style "ish") to have some folks let me know of their experiences in shooting them at longer distance. Now I in NO WAY want to offend any one ( shouldnt even have to type that, we are grown men for petes sake.. but alas..) If you have not shot a .36 cal at distances over 150 yards, tested the penetration at said distances and further, taken game with said gun at said distances, then thanks for the comments but i am truly looking for those who have "been there , done that". to everyone else: Thanks for commenting on my post and have a great time shooting these ole guns that we all love! God bless!

[Bullshop]

The Irish teem used MLs at the Creedmoor matches and if I recall correctly only lost to the US team Shooting Sharps and Rolling Blocks. by one point. They were shooting 45 caliber but they were also shooting to 1000 yards.
The biggest issue is not if a 36 would be accurate enough or powerful enough because with a properly built gun, sights, load, and boolit it will be. The issue is shot placement made difficult at longer range by a very steep trajectory.
Just like in long range high power shooting if we know the precise range and the trajectory of our load if it is within the capability of our sights we can dial in the range and quite easily make the shot.
The principle is no different than what SHOOTERS are doing in Afghanistan. All you need is a way to precisely measure the range and if you are up on your homework with learning your trajectory shot placement to your 300 yard mark should be no big deal.
A 35 or 36 cal boolit of soft lead of about 200 to 300 grain with an impact velocity of say in the neighborhood of about 800 fps will certainly penetrate a WT deer.
So what I am saying I guess is that what is needed is a shooting system and a main component of the system being a dependable range finder no different from the shooting systems being put to effective use in warfare today just on a smaller scale.

[Squeeze]

now you have me curious just how far I can shoot. Im using the Knight mountaineer to .32 conversion (its been posted on several forums) with a 1-36 twist (it was built for roundball, but does well with a conical so far) I havent shot it past 100 yet, but It surprised me there already. Ive tried it with Maxis, 25 grn of Blackhorn 209 powder, and a lubed overpowder wad and its very accurate , nice round holes. Next time to the range Im going to see what it takes to tighten up at 100, then try 150 to 200. See at what range it starts to tumble maybe. the gun never ceases to surprise me with its abilities. but its a conundrum unto itself, lol (follows no rules) the .36 build I have in mind is posted on pg 2 here under .32 build It would take #11 caps, so no BH, but some real black can do wonders. Can always try a duplex, but im not sold completely on BH yet

[Bullshop]

What twist are you planning for the 36? The 1/36 twist of your 32 really wont allow a boolit length that would be capable of very long range.
For the 36 you might consider what works good in a similar caliber CF rifle, something like a 35 Whelen. With 1/14" to 1/16" twist the 35 Whelen will handle about a 300gn boolit. With the right twist and boolit you might be very surprised at just how far you can shoot accurately with your 36.

[Squeeze]

exactly what I had in mind, built more specific to long ranges and bullets. possibly eventually for a varmint gun. These small call muzzleloaders have kept me at the range and smiling through all the ammo drought. and at about 1/4 price or less per shot of the smokeless or .50 cals (they are all prob $1-2 or more avg per trigger pull) I dont even lift my CF out of the safes anymore, I pretty much have a muzzleloader to cover any need I might have. something about them keeps me entertained. :grin:

[johnson1942]

i forgot to mention that 25 years ago on the edge of a oak forest next to the canadian line i made a 175 yard shot on a white tail doe. i was resting my .45 1-60 twist round ball gun i had built on a fench post and i elevated to 6 inches above where i wanted to hit. i was useing 100 grains of pyrodex behind a .445 round ball. it hit in a straight line 6 inches below where i aimed. she went to her knees then got up and limped off. it was hard trailing her and i got a .50 roundball. i could hit them where i wanted but trailing them to get them wasnt what i wanted. 7 or 8 years ago i did the same thing here in ne. and 125 yards. she went down hard but then got up and it also was long and hard trailing her. i thought at a closer range i wouldnt have this problem and i really liked the gun so i used it again.both shots were in the forward chest cavity as they should be but lacked what a .50 has. the point is you can make long shots with a roundball but they lack omph in the smaller cals. still love that gun and shoot it for fun alot. if you read about lewis and clark, some of the members of their crew were takeing antelope out to 300 yards with their .58 cal rifles. also the first shot fired at the battle of new orleans was at 215 yards and it was a head shot at a enemy officer. a rancher just across the border from me went to africa about 15 years ago with a pacific rifle underhammer around a .80 cal. and was useing 150 grains of powder behind the bullet(roundball). he said they shot loads of ducks on a pond at over 200 yards with it. yes i thought the same thing, a lot of wasted meat and you couldnt do that here in the states. the point is roundballs can shoot and much better and longer distances than we usually shoot them at. i have since built and in the process now of building another paperpatch rifle. i really like to see what all types of muzzleloaders can do and it really is alot. by the way the weather is getting a little better and i have a couple of muzzleloaders to sight in, cant wait. have fun

[DIRT Farmer]

I and a few others here shoot Gibbs rifles, refered to as small bore .451s These rifles will shoot to 1 MOA or better. Considering the mid range on these rifles +/- 40 feet at 500 yards with subsonic loads and a 500+ grain paper patch load hitting a target is simply a matter of having the exact range and reading the wind and miriage. Hitting a deer size target at 1000 yds is doable. Ethical hunting is another topic.
I have three long range bullet guns, The Gibbs, Volenteer 451 and a Poor Boy, Thompson Center with a Green Mountain 458 1/18. I have considered having another barrel set up in 32 1/14 twist to make a M/L 32-40 equivlant for 200 yd matches but so many projects so little time.

[Bullshop]

I have a nice lock and stock that I have been wanting to build a Gibbs type rifle from but as you say time/money have not been compliant.

[seekersoftheredmist]

WOOOhooo! see , Now we are talking! Gibbs, Varmint hunting.... THis... THIS is what i was looking for! keep her coming fellers! Prolly will stick to HOLY Black as my powder. the other stuff never has shown me the accuracy that Black has. What about a duplex load in your smoke poles? thoughts?

[DIRT Farmer]

The system that works for long range has been designed around black powder since the begining. That noted, Idaho Ron has been getting good results with pydroex.
For me when I go varmit hunting I use my 40 with round ball. The sneeky thing just adds to it. However coyotes are serious, I use a 22-250 for them.

[Bullshop]

Just remembered to go with that lock and stock I have a 40 cal barrel. It has a .412 groove 1/14" twist. Its about 34" long and almost 2" diameter.
I was saving it and a Kraig action to do a 405 Win but a 40 Gibbs seems interesting as well.

[DIRT Farmer]

From what I know, and I am far from an expert on LRML, the 40 makes a great mid range gun, IE to 500 yds.

[johnson1942]

bullshop,your barrel would shoot about a 450 grain .40 call bullet. it would be iffy with 6 thousands deep grooves and paperpatch. paperpatch shouldnt be more than 4 thousands deep. the way you could make that barrel a tack driver is cut off 3 inches and then on that 3 inch piece take out the lands for 1 and 1/2 inches. then have a grooved long range bullet mould made to .412 and 450 grains in weight. use no harder lead than 30 to 1 in casting this bullet. now push the bullet through the 3 inch barrel piece and preingrave the bullet. it will go down your barrel easily as it is preingraved for it. just use a fiber or poly wad between powder and bullet and you gun will be a long range tack driver good for good groups at 100 yards or a thousand yards. i have a .448 cal gun like this and it has killed 6 deer and is a tackdriver. i have shot deer at 150 yards in the very spot i was aiming at. it goes through them and plows dirt on the other side. they drop like a rock with the 400 grain i use. your barrel is a exciting barrel as the grooves are deeper than usual and the twist is better than a normal .40 cal. it is made perfectly for a long range gun and a preingraved bullet. the first shooter to preingrave was a man from calif. in the 1950/s. it seems to be a calif. invention and used by several shooters over the years in calif. only. their is a outfit on the internet makeing modern rifles into inlines and shooting a preingraved copper clad bullet at normal high power rifle speeds. they charge around 5000 dollars for their guns. you could cut your barrel down to 1 inch diam and mount it on a thompson reagade or even a thompson hawken. put a high post site on the front and a long range soule sight on the back and your in business. or you could build one from scratch. if i had you barrel i would be excited, your sitting on sleeper and one that would win matches with a good shooter behind it. let us know what you do.

[Bullshop]

Oh man now you got me all wobbly in the knees and butterfly's in my stomach.
I have a Wesson lock that might be perfect for this.

[Squeeze]

I almost bought gibbs last year. It was the 14lb weight that kept me from it because it would always just be a range gun and not hunt. I went with a pac-nor .45 on a savage ML instead. It can easily outshoot my abilities, and I probobly havent broken it in yet. just finished another rem/pac in .416 I just need some good optics on, should be even better at range. Im just starting into the smokeless world, and either can still use black (lol I know...whole different animal, and blasphemy to you traditionalists, but it just seems to be where my interest goes) :grin:

[Boz330]

I almost bought gibbs last year. It was the 14lb weight that kept me from it because it would always just be a range gun and not hunt. I went with a pac-nor .45 on a savage ML instead. It can easily outshoot my abilities, and I probobly havent broken it in yet. just finished another rem/pac in .416 I just need some good optics on, should be even better at range. Im just starting into the smokeless world, and either can still use black (lol I know...whole different animal, and blasphemy to you traditionalists, but it just seems to be where my interest goes) :grin:

I believe that Pedersoli is making a Gibbs hunting model now. Cost is about the same as the target model. Recoil might get your attention though. Basically you have a 45-90 to 45-100 in a ML.

Bob

[Squeeze]

Just ordered a barrel in .36 (true .360 bore) with a 1-14 twist and ~.005 rifling depth. I ordered some MMP sabots and some hornady XTP's in .311 in a few weights. Im also looking for a good .38 mold for PP or maybe just a GG slip fit. any suggestions?

[John Boy]

the question i have is how accurate are they to say... 300 yards AND what kind of energy would they have at that distance? enough to knock down steel or even better to ethically take deer sized game?The question tells me the OP is inexperienced,lacks knowledge of firearms caliber capabilities and is not a sporting person to even think about a one shot kill on a deer at 300 with a 32 or 36 caliber bullet
Buy some reference books with loading data!

[johnson1942]

to shoot that gun paperpatch you will need to reduce a 1.05 long bullet to .352 diam. it wil shoot accurate as close and as far as you want. you will need to make a wad to go behind the bullet between the powder and the base of the bullet. the bullet should be no harder than 30 to one but 40 to one would be best. you can use double wrap dry wrapped with number nine onion skin paper all wood fiber paper but what will shoot with no fliers and load very easy is one wrap with 18 pound paper as that kind of wrap comes of at the muzzle perfectly every time if you use the double wrap slice along the seam through both layers of paper to the bullet almost to the base. then the double wrap will also come off at the muzzle every time. put both style of wraping the bullet on top of the wad as you put them on the powder. the wad under the bullet will keep the paper on the bullet when it goes down the bore. wipe good between rounds or it wont work. you gun should shoot very very good to any range following these rules. it should be more accurate than you can shoot. if you have any questions pm me and i will be glad to help. also dont try to turn it into a magnum. i wouldnt push the bullet more than 1500 ft. per second. 1200 to 1500 will give the consistant accracy you want. you will have to figure the powder charge to get that.

[Squeeze]

I almost went with a smokeless capable on a .35 whelen platform. It would have matched its centerfire counterpart in ballistics. but since im in a smoke only state, I went with a true .36. (I want it for varminting)

[Odinbreaker]

In Wisconsin you have to have a minimum of 40 cal riled for deer hunting. Check your state law

[Good Cheer]

Mine are set up with sights for hunting rather than target practice (so far).
.401" bore x 16" twist x 32".
.458" bore x 24" twist x 26".
To get the weight needed for accuracy down range, velocity is sacrificed. Less than high end loads will probably shoot the most accurately. This type of curve is what I'm used to seeing with a sweet spot before the up turn.
http://i791.photobucket.com/albums/yy192/SNARGLEFLERK/NE457124_zpsfa07e4a9.jpg (http://s791.photobucket.com/user/SNARGLEFLERK/media/NE457124_zpsfa07e4a9.jpg.html)
Better to have a piece set up so that you don't have to floor board to get where you want to go. But hey, that's my experiences not somebody elses.

[Squeeze]

Nice! thanks, I ordered a barrel 7/8 straight .360 1-14 ~.005 depth. 28" length. I plan on using an Allen inline action. (similar to a White/Knight plunger style) I have my eye on a magneto speed Chrono. Im hoping to have by the time the build is completed. Ill probably start with an MMP sabot and shoot .311 in 85-100 grn first, Then see how a PP or even GG land riders work. If I can get anything good, Id like the gun for coyote/fox/groundhog. Most guys have said about the same.. Too hot wont work either. I was almost figuring on 12-1500 speed. It will be a few months yet to get the barrel and action. Then Im hoping to find a close factory stock to repurpose with any luck. I thought worse case scenario I could even use plastic with some bedding/fiberglass. etc and spray it with bedliner for a start.

[johnson1942]

good action to work with. that wont be a hard gun to put together . mmp sabots are good sabots. you would find the single wrap paperpatch very very easy to load and it would drive tacks. you could push those sabots a little faster than a cast or paperpatched bullet. any way you shoot it it will be a shooter. keep us posted.

[Wayne Smith]

I can't believe nobody has mentioned Ned Roberts The Caplock Muzzleloading Rifle! "Preengraving" a bullet is not new, that is what a false muzzle does.

[johnson1942]

who said it was new? read the book also as well as the ones about pope.

[Squeeze]

I thought about getting a barrel drop. But I want a lighter barrel on this. I have a few for larger calibers, I was figuring on sizing/knurling at best here. Most of my drops are not even used. I went with fullform dies from swinglock, and hankins. I have guns that will outshoot my abilities with out of the box jacketed factories unsized, so not even going to try with a 7/8 barrel .36

[DougGuy]

As others have said, shooting for fun to 300yd would make an interesting day, but hunting at that distance? With either one of those calibers? No way..

There is this very small group of people who will post here from time to time that seems to be of a mindset of wanting to take deer with what any prudent hunter would consider a LOT less than ethical cartridge/caliber/load, just to say they did it. Regardless of how many deer they wound and then let get away in this effort.

I took an old doe once with a .45 Colt revolver. In dressing this old girl out, I found 3 different sized pieces of buckshot and a broadhead. Why do people take these kind of shots if they can't go into the woods with an adequate load for taking the animal they are hunting? JS...

[Chev. William]

RE: Why.....? I would guess that there are several possibilities;
A) They don't have anything better suited and Need The Meat.
B) They Are like some Fishermen who 'Crow' about landing a 'Trophy Size Fish in 4lb Fly line.
C) They "Don't Give a S***" about Ethics, possibly also about Morals Either.
D) They Were "Drunk, or Under The Influence" at the Time and could not track the wounded animal.
E) They have never learned of a better way.
F) Any Combination of the above.

It is "A sad commentary on The Human Animal" that such Game Injuring "Hunters" still exist and still get out to do such damage. But I DO NOT Advocate more Laws nor Regulations as such would not stop these types of persons, But would only restrict Law Abiding Citizens instead.

Best Regards,
Chev. William

[Squeeze]

Haha, nothing like muzzleloader to start a nice heated debate. and lots of responses aimed at differing interpretations of a non existing statement.

[Newtire]

Don't own a .36 with a fast enough twist to shoot a conical that far. Who makes such an animal? Would be fun I'll bet.

On the 300 yd. shooting with a round ball I can't say. I once tried repeatedly to hit a gong the size of a garbage can lid at 350 yds. with a .50 GM barrel and 70 gr. 3f. I could put 5 shots into 3"-4" groups at 100 yds. on a regular basis. At 350 yds. the ball appeared to become unstable as no amount of aim correction could make that ball hit anywhere near that gong. I would suspect a .36 round ball would be worse?

Someone ought to try and see with a conical I guess.

[waksupi]

I don't like to shoot deer past 200 yards with a cartridge rifle. I sure wouldn't do it with a muzzleloader.

[arcticap]

Don't own a .36 with a fast enough twist to shoot a conical that far. Who makes such an animal? Would be fun I'll bet.

The original Knight Rifle Co. made a special edition LK-93 "Wolverine" inline in .36 caliber with a 1 in 24" twist Green Mountain barrel.
Many folks shoot it with MMP .36 sabots that are made for .32 bullets, but it can also shoot round balls fairly well.
However I don't know how well it can shoot bore size conicals.

One seller said that he was able to shoot cloverleaf groups at 50 yards with 85 grain XTP bullets and sabots.
So I ended up buying it from him [w/o the scope & bipod].

234521

Here's 2 threads about it, #2 also has more photos:

1. https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/fast-twist-36-cal-build.32809/page-2#post-266398

2. https://www.modernmuzzleloader.com/threads/lk-93-36-and-round-ball.32045/#post-256913

[indian joe]

Just a quick question: how many of yall commenting actually shoot "long range" Muzzle loaders? 200 yards and beyond? out here we dont consider "long range" until you get past 600 yards. Just wondering. many of the replies have said NO to shooting past 75 yards! that made me laugh. also the bullet i was going to use would be a paper patched variety.if a gun will shoot moa or less at 75-100 then it should be able to hit a 14" plate at 300 yards. the muzzle velocity should be comparable to a 38-55 and its a proven mid range (600 easily and in) round. Please list your experiences to help prove your opinion with some technical data too ( for example: grains of powder, weight of projectile, length of barrel, sight system , ect) thanks fellers!!!

You said kentucky style long gun and you nominated 32 or 36 calibre - thats a round ball squirrel gun - then you think you gonna kill a deer at 300 yards ?????

could have a lot of fun plinking little stuff (squirrel, rabbit, turkey) from 25 to 50 yards with a small calibre round ball gun

a 32 or 36 slug gun ran hard might do the job at 100yards but its not a kentucky style ---needs to do some more reading here .....

[indian joe]

Just a quick question: how many of yall commenting actually shoot "long range" Muzzle loaders? 200 yards and beyond? out here we dont consider "long range" until you get past 600 yards. Just wondering. many of the replies have said NO to shooting past 75 yards! that made me laugh. also the bullet i was going to use would be a paper patched variety.if a gun will shoot moa or less at 75-100 then it should be able to hit a 14" plate at 300 yards. the muzzle velocity should be comparable to a 38-55 and its a proven mid range (600 easily and in) round. Please list your experiences to help prove your opinion with some technical data too ( for example: grains of powder, weight of projectile, length of barrel, sight system , ect) thanks fellers!!!

You said kentucky style long gun and you nominated 32 or 36 calibre - thats a round ball squirrel gun - then you think you gonna kill a deer at 300 yards ?????

could have a lot of fun plinking little stuff (squirrel, rabbit, turkey) from 25 to 50 yards with a small calibre round ball gun

a 32 or 36 slug gun ran hard might do the job at 100yards but its not a kentucky style ---needs to do some more reading here .....

[charlie b]

Note that this is an old thread. The OP has long since made his decision. Would be interesting if he had results.