Anyone cast for a Les Baer .45?

[snowwolfe]

Never tried cast in my Les Baer and the 45 acp is a caliber I never cast for in the past. This particular Les Baer was built with the 1.5 inch group guarantee at 50 yards.
Have a large supply of Lyman #2 to work with. What would be a good place to start mold wise? Will mainly be plinking but might take a deer if the opportunity presents itself. Pistol is really tight so need to run it with warm loads to keep it functioning perfectly.

[tomme boy]

Do you know what recoil spring is in it? If it has been changed? I think Les puts in a 18# on his 5" models. I helped a friend with his and we went with a Lyman 452374 225 RN with 5 grs. of Win 231 and it worked fine. They were sized to .452"

[snowwolfe]

Pretty sure the spring is a 18.5 pound. I was told to run at least 200 full power loads through it to break it in. So doubt I want to load up anything light.

[dubber123]

The H&G 68 always receives good accuracy reviews, but I have never used it. I have used the Lyman 452460 200 SWC, and got some 1" 25 yd. groups from a plain old Springfield loaded model. A Les Baer has been on the list for a while, I love finely fitted machines.

[felix]

Snowwolfe, my experience with very close tolerance machines indicate exact ammo as per the machine as spec-ed. What ammo did Les advise for the particular gun you have? The only gun I have spec-ed that closely is my BR gun, and that affair is a manual operation only where "things" can be felt in advance for every round. Autos/simiautos are true machine guns, suggesting here that the majority of them are loosely spec-ed as not to cause hang-ups during their operations for ANY reason. In other words, it would be best to use your tightly fit gun with ammo intended until the gun loosens up slightly.

I had a (small block) 403 Olds engine built to very close specs with materials suggested by the builder for the purpose. It tore up 2 high-performance starters within 12K miles. The engine did last 200K miles before the car was sold, and did not loose any noticeable compression during that time. That was the advantage I was looking for, and I did get what I paid for. Piston tolerance was in spec-ed at 0.002 with valves holding 25 inches of vacuum at idle. Torque measured 389 ft-lb at crank, flat response from 750-2500 rpm. The engine would run on 6 cylinders in the most ugly weather you could imagine for a point-type ignition system. Can you spell longevity, reliability? That is what you have in your LesBaer, so take care of it as such. ... felix

[Dale53]

I was a competition shooter for a number of years (both NRA Bullseye and full charge IPSC). My bullet of choice, then, for both sedate target work and full loads was the H&G #68 (a 200 gr long nose SWC). I use the Mihec moulds for this bullet. This will run in most 1911's (and I would almost guarantee it will run perfectly in the Les Baer) and will cut a clean hole in target or flesh.

A simple phone call to Baer will give you suggested load data for either purpose. However, most reloading manuals (like the Lyman #4 with data for Lyman's 452630) should satisfy your needs.


My alloy for the 1911 AND the Smith 625's is WW's+2% tin. Lyman #2 will work just fine. I size my bullets at .452" and use Lars' White Label Carnauba Red lube.

You will thoroughly enjoy the Les Baer.

This photo will show you how to adjust overall length of the loaded round:
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj80/Dale53/1911Headspace.png (http://s269.photobucket.com/user/Dale53/media/1911Headspace.png.html)

Dale53

[MtGun44]

H&G 68 over 4.8 BE or 4.8 TG, seat to 1.250-1.260, taper crimp as a separate
operation to about .468 or a bit tighter. Size boolits to .452 and cut that Lyman #2 with
about half Pb, making sure you wind up with about 2% tin for good mold
fill out. My match bbl 1911s need about 1.250 and the more standard barrels
do fine with 1.260. Since the ammo may find it's way into any of them, I have
finally standardized on 1.250, which is probably what the Les Baer will want,
too.
Match bbl guns are famous for needing fairly deep seating of a SWC and a fairly
tight TC to fully chamber due to tight chamber and short throats in the bbl. Most
likely issue will be failure to close due to too long seating and/or too little TC.

Use the barrel as your gage as per the excellent post above and you will be fine.
Too hard an alloy is not your friend for .45 ACP, no reason in the world for #2.

Bill

[wv109323]

A RN 230 gn. should be the most reliable feeding bullet profile. The 230 carries a little more recoil and probably is not as accurate as the 200 gn. SWC. The 200 SWC is more popular in Bullseye and other pistol disciplines than the 230 RN. I don't think your pistol would have a 18.5 lb. spring with the 1.5" guarantee but what do I know. The 1.5" guarantee was mostly for the Bullseye shooters and they don't push their bullets that hard and thus don't need that stiff of a spring. A 16 lb. spring is standard for the government model with factory 230 ammo. Most BE shooters do not exceed 4.2 gns of Bullseye powder with a 200 gn. SWC boolit. The "sweetspot" for the 200 gn. boolit is around 750 to 800 fps and 800 to 850 with the 230 gn. RN boolit. Lead hardness is not that critical at these velocities. Lyman #2 is well within the hardness needed for the .45 ACP.
I would stay with the 200 SWC sized at .452. A taper crimp is preferred over a roll crimp for headspace reasons. Make sure you get enough taper crimp to ensure reliability. That should be .468 to .470 depending on the type(wall thickness) of your brass.
A Les Bauer should not need a stronger break-in load though you might experience a few malfunctions early on. Keep the pistol well oiled.

[snowwolfe]

I thank you guys for your advice and think the suggestion to give Les Baer a call is a good one. Will call them next week and maybe look into getting some different alloy as well. Might order a 452460 to start with. I am all ears so keep the ideas coming.

Worse thing is I checked my powder supply and while I have like 70 pounds of rifle powder and 10 pounds of 296 I don't have anything for the .45 or my 10mm!! Going to have to keep a close eye on the powder web sites for the next couple of weeks.

[bruce381]

my old les Baer shoots 1 1/2 inch at 50 yards with saeco 69 (H&G 68 style) 200 gr SWC.
231@ 5.4 gr OAL 1.250 tapper crimp .470-.472

[Cmm_3940]

I cast for my Les Baer Concept I and Concept VIII. Lee 452-200-RF seated 1.10" COL and 452-230-TC seated 1.18" COL. the 230gr TC never fails to feed. The 200 RF jams occasionally but is fine for practice and saves me a bit of lead. Seat and crimp separately to .470 and use standard powder charges for these bullet weights.

[doghawg]

My LB UTC runs well on 201 RCBS (1.235") sized .452" with BAC lube over 5.8 gr. of 231 for 880 fps. Also Lyman #452374 (1.272") sized .452" BAC lube over 5.3 gr. of 231 for 820 fps.

[h8dirt]

I don't have a LB but I do have a Wilson Combat Classic in 45 ACP. The load used by Wilson to shoot my test target was 4.5 grains of VV N310 under a H&G 68 sized to 0.452" and loaded to 1.250" OAL and taper crimped to 0.469" at the case mouth using a LPP. That has worked great for me. I also use WST at 4.4 grains for loads that are a bit lighter but still very accurate. My alloy is 16+/- BHN with White's BAC lube.

[Beau Cassidy]

Drop your spring down to about 12 or 13 lbs and shoot a H&G 68 style with 3.5 grains of Clays. I did pretty good with that when shooting Bullseye.

[MtGun44]

"RN is most reliable feeding profile."

Not really. H&G 68 is just as reliable in any modern 1911.

Bill

[Jupiter7]

"RN is most reliable feeding profile."

Not really. H&G 68 is just as reliable in any modern 1911.

Bill

Yes, maybe just as reliable, but that means as apt to failure also. I'll be the oddball, I don't care for the 200gr h&g 68 or clones over other designs. I think that the OP mentioned possibly taking deer in his first post. This calls for a different bullet that capitalizes on the 45auto's strength, boolit weight. Honestly, my best results with my 1911's have been RNFP or TC style designs(in 9, 40 and 45) like the rcbs 45-230cm. For hunting add a nice flat nose. My personal favorite for match work, and all around shooting is a copy of the rcbs boolit. Drops a 235grn solid or 205gr HP. I can swap from one to the next with same powder charge(5grs BE) and get completely different results as desired, same profile and no die changes. Your Baer deserves a really nice mold, check out what Noe or Miha have brewing. And not all guns will run the H&g 68.
MP re-run of described mold

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?229962-MiHec-2-or-4-cavity-brass-45-RCBS-Cramer-HP-Rerun

[MtGun44]

I stand by my original statement. That RNs feed most reliably is a oft-repeated
myth.

I have no disagreement with anyone's favorite boolit for .45 ACP, but I will not agree
that a RN is factually a more reliable feeding design in modern 1911s. In other guns chambered
in .45 ACP, I have inadequate experience to make the same claim, so do not. Someone may
like a RN better, but it is not accurate to say it is a more certain feeder.

The only 1911s I have seen that would not run with a PROPERLY LOADED H&G 68 are dead
original military barrels with the little narrow groove as the feed ramp and totally square
90 degree corners on the right and left of the chamber. All commercial 1911s since at least
the early 80s will feed H&G 68s if loaded to proper LOA and TCed properly.

Not true of 452460 and several other short nosed SWCs. I have watched many millions of
H&G 68s launched in thousands of 1911s and helped many dozens to load them correctly.
A RN is not more reliable feeder except for the pure military barrels, which are actually getting
pretty rare these days.

Bill

[reddoggm]

^^^^^^^^^^^^fact^^^^^^^^^^^

[snowwolfe]

I decided to try the 452460 and ordered one from Midway last night. But it aint gonna do me any good since I can not find any suitable pistol powder ANYWHERE.

[snowwolfe]

Got lucky today and found some VIHTAVUORI N310. Found out Wilson use's this powder with the 200 grain boolit when testing handguns they build. Pricey but since I will only be using 4 grains at a time 6 pounds will last me a LONG time.

[Iowa Fox]

I decided to try the 452460 and ordered one from Midway last night. But it aint gonna do me any good since I can not find any suitable pistol powder ANYWHERE.

I'm using 4.5 grains of 700X under my 452460. I have tried several powders and came back to the 700X because It gives 100% reliability, burns clean, give good accuracy, and I have lots of it left over from the shotgun days.

[MtGun44]

3.8 of BE or TG works very well in my 1911s with 452460 and will function in most of them with the factory
spring, altho the cases don't travel far - but that is a plus. This is a very accurate design but just a hair
more feeding problems due to the somewhat shorter nose. If you gun likes it from a feeding standpoint,
it is a wonderful choice.

Bill