Ruger Mini 14 accuracy questions

[HeavyMetal]

Not in this particular forum that much but I do have few questions on the mini 14 .223 chambering.

Nephew has a 184 prefix Mini and he'd like me to do a few things to it to get it to shoot better.

After checking out a few web site I've settled on Accuracy systems scope mount, the one that mounts in the rear sight slot and has a couple screws mounting it to the front of the reciever.

This looks like a good soild mount, unlike the one screw wonders I've seen advertised for cheap, and I figure a good steel tubed Weaver K-6 should perform well.

Unless I hear different, with good reasons, I'll do this as planned.

Next question: Bedding the MIni 14 seen several styles of bedding systems but think plain old glass bedding of the action area
with no contact along barrel / gas tube area should provide a stable remountable platform.

Need to hear from anyone that has bedded a Mini, I think the stock on this is Plastic but won't have the rifle in hand until late March, with success.

Next question: I have had some experience with auto loading rifles, the M 1 rifle as an example, I realize that most auto loading rifles need to operate within a speific pressure / power ban to keep from doing the dum stuff I watched my buddy do with his M 1 while we learned why he was bending Operating rods.

So anyone have a good basic accurate load for the 223 mini 14? Prefer ball powders but may have IMR or Alliant that will fill the bill. Advise a load, I'll check it in my manuals and use it if it has good numbers / referals.

That should cover it but please fel free to add those little things that made a difference in group size I may not have thought about. the Mini is new to me but I don't see it being a major problem to get shooting.

HM

[silverjay]

I sent mine to Accuracy system for the same mount, pillar bedding and trigger work. Shot better. I got rid of it a few years ago because while it did shoot better it still didn't hang with my ar.

[300savage]

go to perfect union you will find what you are asking and more.
i believe that great west gunsmithing has a video on his site that will show you how.
also some buffers, a reduced gas bushing and perhaps an accustrut may all help.

[ElDorado]

So anyone have a good basic accurate load for the 223 mini 14? Prefer ball powders but may have IMR or Alliant that will fill the bill. Advise a load, I'll check it in my manuals and use it if it has good numbers / referals.


HM

For 55 / 62 gr FMJ I use 25 gr of Win 748, which is a ball powder and meters nicely. It seems like 27 grs was a little more accurate in my 183 prefix Mini 14, but 25 gr was more accurate in my AR, and I didn't want to keep two loads. 27 grs is getting close to max, but 25 gr is a nice, sane loading. I may revisit that loading in the future, but it's held up whenever I tested it. I don't shoot cast in 223, so I don't have a load for that.

Hodgdon BL-C(2) and Varget are other popular powders, though I haven't tried them.

I usually use the Mini 14 as a plinker/fun gun. It doesn't have a reputation as an accurate rifle, but I understand the desire to hit what you're shooting at.

Here's a little info from Ed Harris. You may have already seen this.

http://www.grantcunningham.com/blog_files/dae1afe302917834c6697a754890d80e-977.html

Let me add a warning about grinding the slide as mentioned in the Harris article. I read on another forum about someone who was trying that and ruined the slide very quickly. I'd hate to see that happen.

Good luck!

[oldred]

During the 80's I had three Mini 14s and after the third one I said to myself "enough of this"! Nothing I could do to these things would produce anything better than what I would refer to as mediocre accuracy and in stock form accuracy was dismal at best. I have heard that Ruger has addressed some of the problems in the newer versions and maybe I just had three "lemons" but those three were enough for me, it's a shame too because they are such good looking rifles. Hope you have better luck than I did!

[Outpost75]

Ruger described it himself as "the world's most expensive plinker"

When Bill Ruger, Sr. was asked by Ed Harris why the company should not under take a program to improve accuracy of the Mini 14, he was told:

"It doesn't need to be any better than that, for farm boys who are going to shoot at cans!"

I rest my case.

[Petrol & Powder]

I don't wish to be totally negative, but I've never seen a Mini-14 that would shoot well. I had one and shot others and was never impressed. If I had to guess, I would say the large mass of the operating rod causes havoc with the barrel harmonics. They function well but I've never seen one that was particularly accurate.

[300savage]

the newer tapered barreled models shoot decent. and i know of a stainless 580 series that will shoot its first two shots often in a half inch but within an inch always.
after that it starts climbing until it starts grouping again at two inches high where it again becomes a one inch gun.

it shoots just good enough to be interesting and worth keeping around to see if its issues can be fixed. bedding it removed most all lateral dispersion in the groups, but did not do much to stop the vertical stringing.
a strut actually makes it shoot worse..

[jmort]

I would not get one for accuracy, but for rock solid reliability and ergonomics. That is a gun that will run. Very handy and useful. For .223 I like RL 15

[Hardcast416taylor]

To solve the case flinging problem of the mini and to tone down the bolt slam issue you should look into changing out the gas port orfice. Brownell`s has a 3 port kit that is fairly inexpensive. There are 3 sizes of orfices in the kit from very small to large - but still smaller than the full blown size in the rifle. It takes less than 30 minutes to change out your orfice for a newer smaller size model. I installed a buffer at the same time to lessen the "clang" when the bolt operated. Cases will be easier to find with the smaller port and lessen wear on the op rod and action that also can lead to better accuracy.Robert

[fryboy]

from my understanding the newer ones use the old style ranch rifle mounts ( milled into the receiver top ) ,the older ranch rifles really kicked the brass ( to clear a low mounted scope ) the older mini 14's didnt kick the brass so hard , the new ones may kick it just as hard as the old ranch rifle did , everyone i have shot had accuracy comparable to a ak or m1 carbine

[plainsman456]

Get a adjustable gas block.

They work wonders for these as well as the mini 30.

[45 2.1]

The original 180 series shot reloads VERY well....... then Ruger changed the gas system (181 series and up) and with it a deeper forend..... that resulted in VERY poor accuracy with the same loads the 180's shot well with.

[fouronesix]

After watching others and shooting a few in the past, I wasn't bitten by the Mini 14 bug. Never felt the need to buy one then spend time and money trying to get one to "maybe" shoot. They do serve a somewhat interesting purpose though- there must be a bunch of them in the Hollywood prop house supply caches. :)

[Outpost75]

And if I recall in the series "the A Team" they never hit anything either!

[Petrol & Powder]

And if I recall in the series "the A Team" they never hit anything either!
:bigsmyl2:

[ShooterAZ]

I sold mine off too, after I got my AR's. No comparison in accuracy. It was a fun plinker though, and I did enjoy owning it.

[Hardcast416taylor]

from my understanding the newer ones use the old style ranch rifle mounts ( milled into the receiver top ) ,the older ranch rifles really kicked the brass ( to clear a low mounted scope ) the older mini 14's didnt kick the brass so hard , the new ones may kick it just as hard as the old ranch rifle did , everyone i have shot had accuracy comparable to a ak or m1 carbine


I beg to differ with you on how hard the mini 180 series throws brass. Until I changed the gas orfice mine would throw the cases at the least 12` and farther from the rifle. Actually employed a metal detector to search for cases in ankle high grass on my range.Robert

[uscra112]

I fixed the brass throwing in mine by adding buffers to the ends of the slide travel. Supposedly buffers for the 1911 will fit, but I just cut some out of leather.

Mine was never accurate. It went down the road during the panic, for $400 more than I paid for it.

Varget is a great choice for .223 - I use it my Stevens 200 bolter for HV loads. About 25-26 grains with a 55 grain j-wart. A slightly compressed load.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I frequent the Perfect Union site as well, and have posted extensively about these guns. There is lots to know about them and Accuracy Systems is the place to go.

The Mini 14's suffer from one single really bad point and that is the over active gas system. The guns are so over gassed that when fired the large chunk of steel on the op rod hits the front of the receiver so hard that it repositions the action in the stock on Every Shot! My 580 series Mini14 (2005) would throw Wolf Steel cases 40 feet to the right and accuracy was non existent.

There are two ways to deal with this problem, change the orifice size on the bushing between the barrel and gas block or get an adjustable gas block from AS. The second way is the best. my gun became a 2" at 100 yard gun with this simple mod.

Next don't expect tack driver accuracy from these guns. They are 300 yard guns and 6" at 300 yards is not bad for a Carbine. IE this is acceptable accuracy for the intended uses of the gun.

Next try a Red Dot mounted above or directly in front of the receiver. I can hit a 8x10" steel target at 200 yards every single time off a rest with the Red Dot, and target acquisition is so much faster than a crosshair it is pathetic!. I can also hit a man sized target every time at 300 yards off a rest. You don't need a big hairy scope hanging off these guns. I am 64 and wear glasses so please don't cry about aging eyes, I've got them too. If you can see the target at 200 yards with your glasses on you can hit it. EASILY! The Red Dot sight (Bushnell TRS-25 <$90) replaced a 1-4X Scope that was simply too big and made the gun handle poorly. Lighter is better.

Once you shoot the gun and learn to use what you've got, you'll fully understand what I am talking about. The beauty of these guns is the tank like reliability, "acceptable accuracy" and the ability to beat the Krap out of someone with the gun and still have it work when done. IE "Mini" 14 "Just like big brother!"

Now if you do want sub MOA accuracy then once again Accuracy Systems is your goto source, and you can easily spend $1200 making one into a real shooter. Then I will ask you, "What are you going to do with it?"

My standard Load for this gun and all of my other .223/5.56 carbines is 25 gr of BLC2/W748 with a 55gr FMJBT "recycled" bullet. It is reliable in all guns, and accurate enough for the intended purposes of Carbines, the bench mark of which, is hitting a man sized target out to 300 yards.

These guns are what they are, and they are pretty damned good at it. However you will be disappointed if you expect minute of bottle cap accuracy from them. It simply ain't there.

I recently saw a high speed clip showing a Mini14 firing and the barrel, and the op rod were going in two different directions and were all over the place. It was almost scary, but mine works pretty well for 3 gun comps and shooting rifle classes at Front Sight. My gun has about 2000 rounds thru it and gets better all the time.

It is an excellent firearm, and I would not feel handicapped with one in any situation an AR would see.

Randy

[KLR]

I had a Ranch Rifle back in the 80s. I wasted a lot of time and money trying to get it to shoot. Finally I clamped the barrel in a huge piece of angle iron using a 1" square piece of steel on top of the barrel and the bottom of the barrel resting in the V of the angle. I held it all together with two huge c-clamps. The rifle instantly shot into less than a couple inches at 100 yds. I then machined an aluminum pseudo heavy barrel assembly that bolted together and clamped the barrel from the front sight to the stock. That didn't make as much difference as the steel test assembly and returned to shooting poorly. I decided that I needed better than 1 foot groups at 100 and finally sold the stinking thing after buying a $159 SKS that would shoot less than 2" with cheap surplus. Neat concept though. I wish Ruger would have made it work.

[HeavyMetal]

Gentleman:

Thanks for all the input and please keep posting.

WW 748 is a favorite powder and it will get tested in the Mini when the nephew brings it down.

Beside the scope mount it looks like I will be adding the AS gas block strut with some glass bedding this should turn it into a 1 1/2 to 2 inch 100 yard gun which is more than acceptable for what it is.

I will have to talk with him about this Mini, if he's looking for AR type accuracy I think he needs to sell this and move up. if he's lookin for a 400 yard varmint gun he needs to sell this and move up big time, LOL!

But he may only want an "accurate" plinker and that can be accomplised with a minimal cash outlay .

I'll know more about the stock when it is in my hands, that may need a change as well.

[fryboy]

the ones i owned and the several i shot seemed the same way , keep in mind that i talked to many folks ( plunked the brass right in front of me etc ) and thoroughly tested many before ordering what was then the "cream of the crop ", most the older mini versions i tested put the brass forward right and within 10' or so .... the stainless ranch i bought kicked the brass what seemed like 60' to the right straight out ( not so bad as that actually but compared to every standard mini ..yeah that bad ) it was bought to plink and reload ..that means finding the brass to do so ,forget it at the public range as if anyone was to the right of me it was akin to flying projectiles , if you wasnt so far away i'd let you personally see just how far because while i'm exaggerating it's not by much , that gun was thus delegated for either non-reloadable cases or about worn out ones
still alot of fun to shoot and a coyote under 200 yards is dead meat , and that my friends is what it was all about anyways - short handy points like a dream and as stated built like a tank , i'll subject it to conditions that would render a lessor action inoperable , it is simplicity stated ( at least after one learns how to disassemble the operating rod :P )

[kevmc]

Mine is a 188 prefix model....made a .045 gas bushing, bedded the action and it's 1.5" @ 100..
1-7" twist ....so I'm using Sierra 77 MK's.....
Winter has the project on hold, but it shoots about as well as I think it will..........
Reliable and short range (200 yd) coyote medicine.

[tygar]

I've had several & they all shot poorly. Don't have any more, don't plan on anymore, & unless you like to p away $s on inaccurate shooting, can't see a reason to have one. Still have a bunch of mags I'll get rid of some day.

[bikerbeans]

I had a 20" SS model and it was minute of torso @ 100 yards. I handloaded for this gun and it just wasn't very accurate. I sold my mini14 and made a little bit on the deal and bought the parts and pieces to put together an AR platform 300 AAC. I am much happier now.

BB

[Hickok]

During the 80's I had three Mini 14s and after the third one I said to myself "enough of this"! Nothing I could do to these things would produce anything better than what I would refer to as mediocre accuracy and in stock form accuracy was dismal at best. I have heard that Ruger has addressed some of the problems in the newer versions and maybe I just had three "lemons" but those three were enough for me, it's a shame too because they are such good looking rifles. Hope you have better luck than I did!We both had the same thoughts! I messed around with two different Mini's, and finally gave up on them. Scoped-up, had about a 50/50 chance of hitting a standing ground hog @ 200 yards. :sad:

[shooterg]

The use of 'Mini 14" and "accuracy" in the same sentence made me laugh out loud....

[perotter]

....
still alot of fun to shoot and a coyote under 200 yards is dead meat , and that my friends is what it was all about anyways - short handy points like a dream .....

Or for a deer. I've shot several deer with mine. I bought mine a couple of years after they came and was one of the very first SS one. It was made before they had separate serial numbers for the SS model. Throw it up to my shoulder and the 1st round goes where it should. Maybe I got lucky and got one that was some type of special per-production test run and made better(given the odd serial number).

I like 25.5 gr of IMR-4895 and a 55 gr FMJ.

[Deep Six]

I bought a 581 series as my first centerfire rifle. As such, I was committed to it (nowadays I probably would have passed it on down the line). Anyways, in factory form it wouldn't hold more than a 6" group at 50 yards, with a scope. Handloading cut the group sizes down to about 8 MOA. Into AK territory, but I wanted more. I then sent if off to www.greatwestgunsmithing.com for his accuracy package. He did one heck of a trigger (about 1.5 lb with no creep), glass bedded the action, shortened the barrel to 17.5" and threaded for an AR muzzle break (I went with the Smith Vortex brake), installed a buffer on the op-rod, and sent several different sizes of orifices for the gas port. When it got back I milled out the forearm for a sling swivel stud to attach a bipod. After some more load development, I have a Mini-14 that holds 1 MOA for as long as you care to shoot it, flings the brass about 7 feet all in one spot, and is so loud that it still rings a little with double hearing protection. It is still very sensitive to load - some shoot 8 MOA while the good ones shoot 1 MOA.

My choice load is the Hornady 60 gr SP over a near max charge of Varget. The XM855 military load is good for about 1.5 MOA. It is worth noting that I haven't got it to shoot anything less than 55 gr or greater than 63 gr very well at all. Flat base typically shoot better than boat tail. It also likes the powder charge on the high side. You pretty much have to get to 223 max charge before it starts shooting well. 556 level loads typically shoot better.

Now that I realize how easy it is to build an accurate AR-15, I probably wouldn't mess with the Mini. That being said, the Mini does have a very addictive feel and sound of that heavy steel gas action clanging around in the solid walnut stock every time you pull the trigger. I think it's more fun to shoot than an aluminum and plastic AR.

[HeavyMetal]

Deep six thank you for the link it has been very informative, plan to watch all the vids on that site.

[W.R.Buchanan]

What most people do not get about the Mini14 is that is was never intended to be a Varmint Rifle or Bench Rest gun. It is a plinker or in another scenario, a fighting gun.

People need to understand the difference between "Sub MOA accuracy" and "Adequate Accuracy." Not every gun needs to be a tack driver to accomplish it's design goals. A Levergun is considered to be a good shooter if it will hold 2" at 50 yards. One that shoots inside of 2" at 100 yards is a real good shooter. In other words, the accuracy is "adequate for the intended uses of the gun." Why cant this same logic be applied to the Mini14? Well it can,,, and I do,,, and so do many others . Learn the uses of the gun, and once you understand it you will be much happier.

Most Mini's can be coaxed into 2" at 100 yards fairly easily, and since the .223/5.56 cartridge is a 300 yard cartridge in most factory loaded configurations, that equates to 6", which is a lot closer than most people can shoot at that distance on a good day. Also the vast majority of shots most people would use this gun for are below 200 yards anyway, and the intended targets are more than accessible at those ranges with the gun shooting 4". You could probably have a lot of fun and do pretty good with varmints with that level of accuracy.

This is the reason why I have Red Dot Sights on all my .223/5.56 carbines. They are 300 yard guns and I do pretty well below that distance with those type of optics. (64 years old and wears glasses)

Many people who criticize these guns, do not grasp the concept, If you look at the gun in the proper context they are pretty neat pieces of machinery. If you are unwilling, you will be disappointed.

One thing that I would recommend with regard to understanding the place the gun occupies, is too shoot the hell out of one at a Tactical Rifle Course where you shoot 4-600 rounds in a few days. When you see the reliability and how well the gun functions in these types of situations, I guarantee you will come away with a completely different perspective on the gun.

Now wasn't that a positive spin?

Randy

[LIMPINGJ]

I'm with WRB on what the intended use of this rifle is. Think baby M14, it will always go bang and hit anything 95% of the shooting public are capable of hitting from field shooting positions.

[jmort]

Agree, as I said, those guns just flat out run and are the very definition of handy.

[Deep Six]

What most people do not get about the Mini14 is that is was never intended to be a Varmint Rifle or Bench Rest gun. It is a plinker or in another scenario, a fighting gun.

...

One thing that I would recommend with regard to understanding the place the gun occupies, is too shoot the hell out of one at a Tactical Rifle Course where you shoot 4-600 rounds in a few days. When you see the reliability and how well the gun functions in these types of situations, I guarantee you will come away with a completely different perspective on the gun.

Now wasn't that a positive spin?

Randy

I'm with you 100%. But let me tell you, the $350 I spent with Great West Gunsmithing took all the great things about the Mini and added MOA accuracy to it. Now it's fast, handy, runs like a dream, AND accurate enough to hit a field mouse at 100 yards. For $350 bucks it's a whole new level of gun. Well worth it in my opinion.

[perotter]

Personally given the normal price that standard Mini 14s go for I won't get another one. I'd just get a off the rack AR and shot it enough to get to be 100% comfortable with a pistol grip type rifle.

Now if I ran across a used Mini 14 that was cheap, I'd buy it. If it was not accurate enough for me, I'd certainly have something done to change that. I'm sure I'd end up happy.

[BruceB]

I will also join the "100% with Randy" group. The Ruger autoloader is FAR more than most nay-sayers think it is.

Also, IT HAS CHANGED!

When NVCurmudgeon and I each bought new (taper-barreled) Minis in 2010, we were very pleased with their accuracy. I witnessed NVC firing five CONSECUTIVE 5-round groups at 100 yards; all five groups were UNDER 1.25" and a couple were at -or just under - the one-inch mark. His rifle has a Leupold 3-9X scope.

My own Mini groups equally-well, and I have on occasion fired TEN-shot groups around the one-inch mark. Not in rapid-fire, mind you, but given a reasonable rate of fire the rifle delivers great accuracy for its type. I mounted a Leupold Mark AR 1-4X on mine.

ALL our shooting to date in both rifles uses handloaded 55 V-Max bullets..... hey, if it WORKS, why change it? Functioning is perfect, as per reputation.

SO, PLEASE spare us the ancient horror stories.... I also owned several earlier Mini-14s as far back as the '70s, and NEVER encountered any rifle that shot as badly as those I've seen reported. MINIMUM 6" groups at fifty yards???? Never in my experience! ONE inch for five-at- fifty was typical with my loads and rifles.... all handloaded.

[KLR]

Man, you guys could have saved Ruger a bunch of money. Instead of changing (surely not to add a heavier barrel to fix any accuracy problems [smilie=1:) their Mini 14 a few years ago, they could have just included a booklet "Understanding Your Mini 14."
:kidding:



Tell you what, I'll believe that some of you got rifles that shoot great if you'll believe me when I tell you that I tried dozens of loads for my Ranch Rifle with integrated scope mounts designed for greater accuracy and it still wouldn't hold a one foot group at 100 yards. I also bedded the action and tried the other popular tricks of the day. It's a really neat concept and I enjoyed how it looked and felt, but it was worthless if I couldn't be confident of hitting a coyote or groundhog at 100 yards.

So explain to me why Ruger added a heavier tapered barrel to a gun that shot so great before? Problems with the gun, or just that many of us that didn't understand how to use the rifle?

[HeavyMetal]

First thanks to all for the stories and info particularly Deepsix for providing me several hours of smart video at greatwestgunsmithing, I learned a bunch.

Got lots of ideas on what to watch out for and the nephew will be happy with a reasonable accurate rifle he is not expecting it to match my Ruger number 1 at 400 yards!

I should have my hands on the rifle sometime in late March and plan to give it a through check up when it arrive.

My biggest concern is the rifling twist, with several sources quoting both 1-10 and 1-7 twists( supposedly Ruger switched from 1-10 to 1-7 mid 1986 and guess what I got to work with) Once I determine that I will select loads for testing and modifiy the gun with Acuuracy systems scope mount, adjustable gas block and Strut set up.

Bed the stock if it's beddable or buy a wood one if it's not and follow gun doc's trigger job video.

I also plan to try out some unusal reloading technique as I find Ruger cuts these with a 5.56 chamber rather than a .223, not a lot of difference between the two but enough that a few off the wall ideas my pay to try out.

I'll post results if I'm right, LOL!

Haven't done this kind of work in awhile and look forward to it with some glee!

[kens]

What's the big deal about the Ruger accuracy, and it being a plinker???
Consider that the SKS, AK, and M1 Carbine are all 'plinkers' if judged by the same criteria that is judged upon the Ruger.
And these 3 mentioned guns are well respected in the shooting community.
So, whats the big deal??
NONE of these mentioned here in my post are ever built to be bench rest accuracy guns anyway.
I like the Ruger because it looks like a clone of the M1 Carbine action, which was a very very reliable action, and lightweight too.
Lightweight & reliable,,,,,,2 very good attributes.
The SKS is reliable, but not really lightweight.

[W.R.Buchanan]

KLR: what I think you missed with your gun is the fact if the best you could do with it is 12" at 100 yards, (which I seriously doubt,) that you should have sent it back to Ruger for repair or replacement. If they had been able to duplicate that poor a shooting record I'm sure they would either fix it or replace it. I wouldn't have put up with that bad a shooter for one minute. If you re read my post you will see that I state "Most mini's can be coaxed down to 2" at 100 yards without too many problems." I consider 3" to be acceptable accuracy but 12" is ridiculous! I have shotguns with smooth bores that will do better than that.

I have seen and heard of literally hundreds of these rifles and post frequently on Perfect Union that is "the" Mini 14-30 site. I have never heard of a gun that shot 12" at 100 yards, even with iron sights. In fact now that I think of it, one guy, (only one guy) had one he claimed couldn't do better than 6" at 100 yards, and that is the worst one I have heard of.

I am now going to post a thread on that site asking "what is the worst one they have seen?" and see what comes up.

I'll report back in a few days.

Randy

[tygar]

I've had several & they all shot poorly. Don't have any more, don't plan on anymore, & unless you like to p away $s on inaccurate shooting, can't see a reason to have one. Still have a bunch of mags I'll get rid of some day.

Any of you guys that "love" the mini want to buy any of said mags? I sure won't ever have any need for them!

[yovinny]

The older rifles seem to have very bad barrel vibration issues.
Doing nothing more than shortening the barrel (make it more rigid) giving it a good crown and adding a flash hider, will usualy cut group size in half. Making the hand full I've done for people, besides my own pair, into an honest 3moa or less rifle.

[KLR]

KLR: what I think you missed with your gun is the fact if the best you could do with it is 12" at 100 yards, (which I seriously doubt,) .... I consider 3" to be acceptable accuracy but 12" is ridiculous!

I am now going to post a thread on that site asking "what is the worst one they have seen?" and see what comes up.



Randy

Hey Randy, I never said a foot @ 100 was my best group any more than you said 6" @ 300 was your worst. I shot plenty well under a foot but it wasn't consistent and I'd get crazy flyers.

I'm just sharing my experience. Doesn't matter if you believe me, but I really don't think Ruger would have make the barrel changes they did if your 6" @ 300 with a Red Dot was typical.

I'm finished.

[fryboy]

red dot sights are usually how many minutes of angle ? most i see are 3-6 MOA , yes there are others all the way down to 1 and some even bigger , if my dot is covering 5 MOA then i would be tickled pink with anything less than a 5" group [shrugz] it is what it is ( and it's a wonderful thing !!! )

[W.R.Buchanan]

Tell you what, I'll believe that some of you got rifles that shoot great if you'll believe me when I tell you that I tried dozens of loads for my Ranch Rifle with integrated scope mounts designed for greater accuracy and it still wouldn't hold a one foot group at 100 yards. I also bedded the action and tried the other popular tricks of the day. It's a really neat concept and I enjoyed how it looked and felt, but it was worthless if I couldn't be confident of hitting a coyote or groundhog at 100 yards.

KLR: Did I misunderstand this paragraph in your post? If so,,,What WAS your best group? I thought you said that it was 12" with any load? If it was better than that, then the gun wasn't a 12" gun.

The problem with Mini14 stories is that people tend to exaggerate the worst and the best to suit the story. Taht's what we are trying to get past.

As I said in my above post I am running a thread over at Perfect Union entitled "What was the Worst Mini14 you have ever seen?" So far the ratio of good to bad is about 70/30 to the good.

So far the worst one has been in the 12" range but was returned to Ruger and fixed with a new barrel. Now it is a 1.5" gun. There are many others and the bad ones are usually sold rather than fixed. The 580,581, and 582 series guns (from 2004) on seem to be pretty good guns with far less accuracy problems.

People generally don't like to send their guns back to a manufacturer. I personally don't like it either, as if I did and they sent it back as 'IN Spec" After I spent $30+ to ship it, along with a letter explaining exactly what was wrong and what I wanted them to do to fix it,,,I would certainly blow a gasket.

I had a similar experience with an RCBS boolit mould that was dropping undersized boolits. (.45-300 FNGC) It came back saying it was fine and I sent it back to the president of the company indicating that I was not looking for a second opinion. The President of RCBS called me back and we discussed casting boolits from Wheel weights for about 45 minutes. Turns out, all their mould dimensions were originally set using the shrink rate of Linotype, not softer lead alloys. They were unaware that most people are using Wheel Weights for material. Now they are! A new mould was sent that dropped boolits .002 larger along with the old one, which will be modified by Eric to drop larger boolits from wheel weights.

Many of these moulds are being changed as we speak. And this is an example of why people need to complain to manufacturers when things aren't right, instead of simply ridding yourself of the problem and moving on.

If consumers are willing to act as "beta testers" and provide meaningful feedback to companies instead of simply whining and talking smack,,, then believe me, the manufacturers will respond.

This particular manufacturer has been very good to me simply based on my willingness to feedback to them.

Randy

[HeavyMetal]

Gentleman time for an update on this post

The Mini arrived a week ago with a load of other stuff to sell, thats another S&S post, It was wearing a Butler creek plastic stock.

I had a near new wood stock waiting for it and it is now at Bain & Davis to have a single mounting screw hole D&T'd. I should have it back in a week.

I put the barrel to the twist test and it looks like a 1-10 twist so loads wil be 55 to 62 grains for testing.

I have the accuracy system adjustable gas block and stablizer bar in hand and that as well as some bedding will happen when it is retrieved from the gunsmith.

currently reviewing the vid's on great west on the trigger job for the Mini.

I should have it ready to test fire end of April early May, I'll post results then.

HM

[plainsman456]

You will love the adjustable gas block.

It should be standard on every rifle.

[fecmech]

red dot sights are usually how many minutes of angle ? most i see are 3-6 MOA , yes there are others all the way down to 1 and some even bigger , if my dot is covering 5 MOA then i would be tickled pink with anything less than a 5" group [shrugz] it is what it is ( and it's a wonderful thing !!! )
Quite easy to shoot groups less than the size of the dot. Simply place the dot inside a larger target or target circle, your eye will center it just like a peep sight. How much does the post on an iron sighted rifle cover at 100 yds, yet some pretty impressive groups can be fired with a peep sighted rifle at long yardages.

[tygar]

Quote Originally Posted by shooterg View Post

The use of 'Mini 14" and "accuracy" in the same sentence made me laugh out loud....

It is indeed an oxymoron.

It is a great idea on a good platform that doesn't work.

As I said before, if any of you Mini guys need any mags I have a bunch of 20s & 30s I would be glad to trade of sell.

[bob208]

well they must be ok for some people. around here you do not see any at the gun shows or gun shops for sale. you don't see any in the shops to be worked on.

[HARRYMPOPE]

I have had three.one early wood handguard one and two from the 1980's.they shot 2" at 200 with cold barrels (about 2 groups if you shot slow) then opened up to about 3".I find it funny how guys rip the mini and think the 30 carbine is such a great gun.I like them but just don't find them tack drives but its a darn reliable defence gun.A buddy if mine who spent some tome shooting st bad people overseas with an M4 owns a mini for his truck gun.that tells me it must be ok.

[HeavyMetal]

Just a quick heads up for those watching this thread:

The 184 series Mini 14 is at Bain and Davis for a scope mount install, bought accuracy systems mount that replaces rear site but it does need one hole D&T'd in the reciever.

I do have a mill, but it is in storage, so I decided I wasn't going to try this at home!

Apparently Mini 14 receivers are extremely hard, a broken tap was reported and had to be EDM'd out of the hole! welding up hole and redrilling it is the next step but they seem to be having a little trouble getting the weld to "stick".

I can hardly wait for this to unfold but I was told I should have it back in two more weeks by the GS doing the work.

I'd be LOT scared if this wasn't Bain and Davis now just mildly concerned, LOL!

I am also glad I didn't try this at home!

[Mohillbilly]

Mini s ARE not tack drivers , never intended to be . In comparison to an old WWII 1911 they were intended to go bang nearly all the time . Ya want to shoot little groups shoot an AR . Want to shoot a thousand of rounds with out cleaning , fish it out of a dirty creek , or pull it outta the mud , and shoot man sized targets . get a Mini . Want to shoot ammo the military uses or drops ( as in battle pick up) get a mini . mine is an updated 30 carbine that will shoot 5.56/.223 in stainless , folding stock an all . Great plinker,and bug out gun. I reload 55 gr. with AA 2323 or something like that near max . lots of fun. my 60 +yr old eyes and iron sights will do OK . Want to stand out by the 200 yrd line and try and duck me ? I'll do well with a " poodle popper " gun . There are better platforms for the " one shot one kill " crowd .

[bob208]

the mini 14 meets the same standards as the m1. but no one is throwing brick bats at the m1. in fact they think it is the best there is.

I think most of the mini 14's problem is the cal. at the time it came out. .222 and.223 were bench rest calibers. so every one thought they were buying a semi auto bench rest rifle.

why did you have to drill and tap to put a scope on? I used a B-square mount.

[HeavyMetal]

A quick update for those curious enough to follow this thread:

After several Calls to Bain & Davis concerning the scope mount, no return calls ever ( a bad sign) I went in and spoke to the manager Dave.

The smith working on the my Mini wasn't in, and they couldn't find it, another bad sign! I spoke at length with Dave about my percieved short comings with the assigned work, Dude one hole D&T'd should not take 12 weeks!

Dave agreed completely said the week originally quoted should not have been exceeded but this Generation Mini had real hard recievers and they moved from one building to another complicating the issue.

I explained if the move was planned I should have been informed when the rifle was dropped off, I could have waited 3 weeks for the move to be finished. They should have stopped taking on work, moved the shop and then recieved shop work after the dust settled!

Dave agreed this is what they had planned but somethings don't work out that way.

I agreed and asked what was next: Dave said his smith would be in the next day they would find he mini (it had to be in the store) and call me.

Next day it is 3 in the afternoon and no call so I dial them up and ask for Dave. Dave says the are sending this out to a welding specialist and I should have the gun in 5 days, Dave will call me when it is ready for pick up.

Uh-Huh?

5 days goes by no call so I dial them up again and get Dave on the line, he's glad I called!

The owner, the senior gunsmith ( what I had junior learning on my rifle?) and Dave had gathered around the Mini and decided it was just never going to be "right" it was ugly and they were not confident the welded hole would stay put.

The Senior gunsmith says Junior should never have attempted this modification and, had he been aware, he would have put a halt to the project before it had started ( nice supervision guys) that generaton Mini can't be drilled and tapped.

Great so Dave what the solution here?

Dave says let us buy you a brand new Ranch Rifle as a replacement for your old Mini, the old Mini is now a parts gun.


I pick up the new Mini in 10 days or so.

I think it's great they stepped up and replaced the rifle without any hassle from me, it's shame they didn't have a handle on this sooner.

As I explained to Dave you not making much money when a $35.00 D&T job turns into a $950.00 replacement firearm!

Dave says sometimes ya get bit, it's part of the business and it provided some needed experience to the Junior gunsmith??? He won't make this mistake again!

I'll keep this thread going and post what happens with the NEW Mini when it arrives.

Meanwhile I need to exchange my gas block and scope mount with accuracy systems, he will trade out the gas block stuff as I never took it out of the bag but I haven't asked about the mount yet, we'll see Tuesday about that!

[W.R.Buchanan]

I gotta tell ya,, the fact that they bought you a new gun to replace the one they screwed up is a pretty good showing of their integrity.

Also the new one you're getting is going to be light years ahead of the old ones. Id say you made out like a bandit!
Plus that you can send all the accurizing doodads back wench they came and get your money back.

This gun is completely different than the other one was and this one may shoot well enough to satisfy you from the get go. The one thing I would look at, is an adjustable gas block for the new gun. But other than that I'd just shoot it.

My 580 series 2005 model only has the gas piston changed out and I drilled my existing gas block for the adjustment screw. I mounted a Bushnell TRS 25 Red dot sight on it, and the gun works great for 3 guns shoots. I routinely outshoot the AR guys with their $2000 rifles and huge optics.

Hope to hear good things from you on this new gun. The place I frequent for Mini 14 talk is

http://www.perfectunion.com/vb/index.php

it has a good crowd of Mini users.

Randy