Thoughts on bullet seat/crimp dies...

[mikej959]

I'm interested in some of the seat/crimp dies hornady and RCBS offers. I would be using on 45 ACP and 9mm loads. Just curious what peoples experience has been with these dies? Or am I better off sticking with separate seat and crimp dies. I'll be loading on a turret press not sure if that would make a difference or not.

[gunoil]

I would stick with seperate. Also l would buy cartridge gage from midwayusa and you will be real happy with it.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/744135/egw-4-hole-chamber-checker-max-cartridge-gage-9mm-luger-38-super-40-s-and-w-45-acp
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/5FA91F54-4F3C-4AE1-A414-DFEBFFF9553A-12889-00000D2CF9ABA766_zpsf24c37eb.jpg

I also started doing this year or so ago on pistol brass.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zps094e9030.png

If you do 9mm you have to buy a makarov FCD to use with above case base swage.

[gunoil]

Mike , i just did a thread on new dimension hornaday combo die, I was hopping but it was hit or mis so l re-sold on ebay/lost 67cents. If l have any trouble cartridge gage'ing my pistol ammo thats a problem. And combo causes that alot. Also it shave here and there last 64th.






There may be a magic person who works it, its not me.

[dudel]

I prefer to seat and crimp in two operations. I feel it gives me more control over each operation, and lets me change boolit profiles without having to adjust the crimp. I did this even when loading on a rockchucker, so I'm not doing this for speed. Something about shoving the boolit into the case while trying to set the crimp just seems wrong to me.

I'm also a big fan of the Hornady New Dimension dies. They work great for me.

[gunoil]

Dudel, last post real confusing. in this thread were calling the N.D. hornaday die a combo die.

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zps0ac2e396.jpg


So you say, you use both? You said: something seems wrong unless you seat then crimp,

Hornaday does make a seat and a seperate crimp die called N.D..

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/null_zps2fc48883.png

[357shooter]

Don't most pistol seating dies also crimp? Every one that I bought has anyway, except for Dillon. When using a four die set the instructions have you back out the seating die body so it won't crimp. Rifle dies are another story.

Using the turret (assuming it's a four station minimum) then crimping after seating is much easier. It makes tuning adjustments easier and quicker. If you think about it, crimping the case mouth while the bullet is still seating doesn't really sound optimal. I've done it in the past when I needed, but still prefer seperate operations.

I have used RCBS but not the Hornady, I've also used Redding and Dillon. But I have more Lee dies sets than all the other combined. The targets and the ammo cannot tell the difference between them.

[enfieldphile]

I too feel seating w/ one die and crimping with another, second die is the best thing. As you state you are using a turret press, this is a snap! If you already have a 3-die set, adding a separate, dedicated crimp die is inexpensive.

[dudel]

Dudel, last post real confusing. in this thread were calling the N.D. hornaday die a combo die.

So you say, you use both? You said: something seems wrong unless you seat then crimp,

Hornaday does make a seat and a seperate crimp die called N.D..


Sorry for the confusion. I use Hornady dies. I seat with the Hornady die, then on pistol calibers I crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp die (gasp!) Yep, I do.

[357shooter]

mikej959: How will you be dropping your powder? Powder through dies with a powder measure attached are very handy. Pistol powder through dies usually expand or flare the case mouth too. I use both Dillon and Lee powder through dies and powder measures. Both are case actuated, which isn't mandatory but is really nice. It's worth putting some thought into, maybe you are already set up and ready to go.

[mikej959]

mikej959: How will you be dropping your powder? Powder through dies with a powder measure attached are very handy. Pistol powder through dies usually expand or flare the case mouth too. I use both Dillon and Lee powder through dies and powder measures. Both are case actuated, which isn't mandatory but is really nice. It's worth putting some thought into, maybe you are already set up and ready to go.

I'm using the hornady case activated powder measure that flares the case

[gunoil]

We wonder how combo could be invented especially for lead or coated bullets. Combo would free up a hole in a loadmaster, extra hole not needed in 650 or 1050.

Mikej959, what was or is your use for a combo die? Gain a hole for powder check die or bullet feeder, or?

[357shooter]

I'm using the hornady case activated powder measure that flares the case
Nice! I haven't used that particular one, however folks I know have. Beside, Hornady makes good products, as do the other manufacturers. In pistol calibers they all (that I know of) flare the case mouth.

[357shooter]

We wonder how combo could be invented especially for lead or coated bullets. Combo would free up a hole in a loadmaster, extra hole not needed in 650 or 1050.

Mikej959, what was or is your use for a combo die? Gain a hole for powder check die or bullet feeder, or?

You are better off seating and crimping in two seperate steps. Most bullet feeders feed into the seating die, at least the ones I'm familiar with.

[Char-Gar]

For autopistol rounds like the 45 ACP and 9mm Luger, I would most definitely seat and crimp with two dies. The crimp die should be a taper crimp die. RCBS makes good stuff and I have many of their dies, some dating back to the early 50's.

[mikej959]

I'm reloading on a turret press and was hoping to combine 2 steps into one but if won't get me reliable feeding ammo I'll stick to using 2 dies.

[gunoil]

You could try one and load copper plated or fmj projectiles. You may get the rcbs one to work for you. And maybe the hornaday. Thats why l like ebay, bought it used it sold it again on ebay, lost 67cents.
l use to have one:
http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k511/putt2012/939C3271-4C45-4102-9F1D-414A80390415-5177-000004E9482FDE2B_zps60d0b6d2.jpg

[1bluehorse]

I see where most prefer to seat and crimp in separate steps (pistol/revolver)....I've done it both ways, using the seater/crimp die and with a separate crimp die...I see no difference in performance either way....does someone have an actual study/facts that separate crimping actually performs better (other than "I think" and "I prefer") and to what degree...I see a lot of "talk" of "shaving" lead bullets if seated/crimped with the seater die, but haven't seen it myself when the seater die is properly set....not starting a fight here, but am sincerely curious....I can't find anything definitive...

[Firebricker]

This is just my opinion but I think a lot of the reason seat and crimp with two dies is recommended is for easier adjusting. If your case is flared and die adjusted correct I do not see any difference. If your on a progressive I use separate dies if I have them since it does not make an extra step. If using a single stage I seat and crimp at the same time to save the extra step. Unless I am using a Lee FCD (rifle) since it is different than a standard roll or taper crimp. FB

[Char-Gar]

I see where most prefer to seat and crimp in separate steps (pistol/revolver)....I've done it both ways, using the seater/crimp die and with a separate crimp die...I see no difference in performance either way....does someone have an actual study/facts that separate crimping actually performs better (other than "I think" and "I prefer") and to what degree...I see a lot of "talk" of "shaving" lead bullets if seated/crimped with the seater die, but haven't seen it myself when the seater die is properly set....not starting a fight here, but am sincerely curious....I can't find anything definitive...

Like many things in reloading the answer to the question of seating and crimping is "it depends". If case mouth is crimped into a crimp groove that is ample for the job, then the use of one die is just fine. However is the came mouth is crimped in a tiny groove or onto the side of the bullet body, then there is a good chance lead will be shaved as the last smidge of crimp is applied as the last smidge of the bullets is going into place against the new crimp.

Misunderstanding and conflicts arise when folks globalize or universalize what happens in one scenario to others. The OP is wanting to seat and crimp cast bullets in autopistol rounds. This is one scenario where the use of separate dies is highly recommended. In a sixgun round, not so much.

You always use a combination seating and crimping die AND you always need two separate dies, are both wrong statements. It depends.....

[1bluehorse]

Like many things in reloading the answer to the question of seating and crimping is "it depends". If case mouth is crimped into a crimp groove that is ample for the job, then the use of one die is just fine. However is the came mouth is crimped in a tiny groove or onto the side of the bullet body, then there is a good chance lead will be shaved as the last smidge of crimp is applied as the last smidge of the bullets is going into place against the new crimp.

Misunderstanding and conflicts arise when folks globalize or universalize what happens in one scenario to others. The OP is wanting to seat and crimp cast bullets in autopistol rounds. This is one scenario where the use of separate dies is highly recommended. In a sixgun round, not so much.


you always use a combination seating and crimping die AND you always need two separate dies, are both wrong statements. It depends.....

I agree........from what I've read from here and another well known site where I asked the same question, using separate dies for crimping is mostly for ease of set-up, and adjustment....

[357shooter]

In this case, being for a semi-auto, using two dies eleminates lead shaving and even bulged cases. Both can cause feeding issues, it's not just a matter of convenience.

When loading for revolvers with bullets that have a crimp groove, it depends on the amount of crimp vs seating depth. In some instances, seating and crimping in one step works with no potential issues or possible complications that would impact the quality of the handloads. In all instances, it is more convenient for making adjustments and fine tuning seating depth and crimp.

[Rich/WIS]

Like 357shooter, crimp revolver loads (357 and 44 Mag) into crimp groove when seating, seat and crimp separately for 9mm and 45. Only issue is some light SWC 45 bullets (my cast Lee copy of H&G 68) need a minuscule roll crimp into bullet as there is not a lot of bullet for a taper crimp to grab.

[pastor]

i only load 2 calibers 9mm and 45acp, i have a hornady lnl and a dillon 550, i have loaded somewhere around 30,000 rounds of 45acp and 20,000 9mm, i use RCBS dies and seat and taper crimp in one die and have never had any issues at all,

i also use a RCBS lock-out die on both presses (which i couldnt do on the 550 if i seat and crimp in two dies, only 4 station) i feel it is more important having the lock-out die than using separate dies to seat and crimp.
i have read on other threads where everyone says its better to do it in two dies and some are very adamant about it. i have also read how that some feel there is no need for a lock-out die that you need to look in every case and i agree and i do, the lock out die just gives me a little peace of mind and should i miss a case with no powder or a double charge the die will stop the press.

i am not saying my way is the best way or that the other posters are wrong i am just relating the way i load and saying that i have never had an issue of any kind in loading, feeding, or leading in the barrels, i cast my own boolets and tumble lube, i have 2 45acp molds 228rn and 200swc, and 1 for 9mm 147swc

good luck which ever way you decide.................pastor

[gunoil]

Pastor: you never said if your useing coated or lead lubed bullets or copper. (copper stands a better chance not being shaved, but).

See if you finished ammo will cartridge gage, Pastor.

[pastor]

i wasnt going to answer as im not sure if your asking because you want to know or to argue, but as i wrote in my first post, i cast all my own boolets both 9mm and 45acp, with the number i have loaded and shot in several different guns with zero problems i was just trying to answer the OP's question about seating and crimping in two seperate dies or one

not sure why you asked about using a go-nogo gage on my ammo? do you think if you seat and crimp in oone die that it wont drop in a go-nogo gage, well sorry to disappoint but yes my loaded ammo will drop in a gage, when i first started loading i checked all of the ammo i loaded but as time has went by and having run into no problems i now just check one in fifty or one in a hundred, mostly just whenever i think to check and they drop in just fine no trouble there

i hope this answers your question, really dont want to get into a big discussion on who is right and who is wrong, as i said in my first post, i am not saying my way is better than someone else's, this is just the method i use to load and i was only trying to answer the OP

[freebullet]

Single stage one step, progressive separate crimp.