Williams FoolProof parts and apertures

[ohland]

The following is a quick list of common FP parts, taken from the Williams' Gun Sight Company, Retail Price List, 1 January 2014.

All Foolproof sights (except TK models) use the Short Elevation Knob. The Long Elevation Knob is for use with FoolProof-TK target sights. NOTE: I take this with a grain of salt, some FP sights have long windage, like that for the Knight BK-82 / MK-82 muzzleloader.

FP / 5D Parts
11515 FP Base only (Specify model)
11516 FP Top Only (Specify Model)
11530 5D Base Only (Specify Model)
11532 5D Aperture Holder
43597 5D Aperture Holder Screws (6-48 X .285)
11517 FP/5D Angular Locking Bushing
31544 FP/5D Angular Locking Bushing Screw (6-48 X .285)
61613 FP Target Elevation Gib Lock Knob ("Marlin 6-48 Giblock" # 061613)
11518 FP Short Windage Screw
11519 FP Long Windage Screw
11520 FP Standard Elevation Screw
11521 FP All-Purpose Elevation Screw
11522 FP 81 Long Elevation Screw
15753 FP TK Short Windage Screw
15752 FP TK Long Windage Screw
11524 FP TK All Purpose Elevation Screw
11525 FP TK Long Elevation Screw
11527 FP Ball (.125" dia)
11526 FP Spring
43598 FP Elevation/Windage Locking Screw (little tiny things, 3-56?)
11528 FP Aperture Holder
14801 FP Blank Blade
43599 5D-RU Top (Old Style), Ruger 44RS Receiver (w/std Aperture & Holder)
1443 FP (Shotgun) Big Game Aperture (.3125 ID)
1444 5D (Shotgun) Big Game Aperture (.3125 ID)
11529 FP Square Notched Blade (seen on FP-T/C)
????? Stop screw - 5D only - set screw to return upper staff to same position

Elevation and Windage screw lengths-
The elevation knob length is not critical, since any extra length passes through the bottom of the base. The windage knob length IS critical since the screw length is limited by the elevation screw. Something I learned while pondering why the windage screw would not seat.

Measure the windage screw from top of the original screw to the tip of the screw.

If it is @ 1.10" long, it uses the normal windage screw.
Target Windage Knob, Short Williams # 15753

If it is @1.25" long, it uses the LONG Target Knob windage screw.
Target Windage Knob, Long Williams # 15752

SHOTGUN / BIG GAME aperture (big aperture, .3125 ID)

FP-SQUARE NOTCH BLADE - used for events requiring open sights, like silhouette.

REGULAR SERIES -Buckbuster – Standard – Target Apertures
Williams discs are standard thread size (7/32x40) and will accommodate Redfield, Lyman, etc.

Regular, Standard, and Target Apertures:
1425 R-3/8 x .050 ... 3/8” x .050
13051 R-3/8 x .050 ... 3/8” x .050 Long Shank (WGRS)
1426 R-3/8 x .093 ... 3/8” x .093 (STANDARD)
1427 R-3/8 x .093 ... 3/8” x .093 (STANDARD) Long Shank (WGRS)
1428 R-3/8 x .125 ... 3/8” x .125 (BUCKBUSTER)
1429 R-3/8 x .125 ... 3/8” x .125 (BUCKBUSTER) Long Shank (WGRS)
44561 R-3/8 x .150 ... 3/8” x .150 [not a Buckbuster?] Long Shank (WGRS)
51104 R-3/8 x .150 ... 3/8” x .150

1430 R-1/2 x .050 ... 1/2” x .050
1431 R-1/2 x .093 ... 1/2” x .093
1432 R-1/2 x .125 ... 1/2” x .125

49891 R-1” x .050 ...... 1” x .050 (TARGET)

- Long shanks are used with WGRS Receiver Sights

TWILIGHT SERIES Apertures
Twilight apertures are designed for shooting under poor light conditions, early morning, late evening, and other inclement conditions. They create a sharp contrast that gives quick definition to the aperture hole, and they eliminate the “fuzz” with which many shooters have trouble.

These apertures are perhaps the greatest development in metallic sights in the last three decades – positive sighting when the light is poor but the hunting best. Williams ‘Twilight’ apertures will accommodate Redfield, Lyman, etc.

1435 TW-3/8 x .050 ..... 3/8” x .050
13052 TW-3/8 x .050 ..... 3/8” x .050 Long Shank (WGRS)
1436 TW-3/8 x .093 ..... 3/8” x .093
1437 TW-3/8 x .093 ..... 3/8” x .093 Long Shank (WGRS)
1438 TW-3/8 x .125 ..... 3/8” x .125
1439 TW-3/8 x .125 ..... 3/8” x .125 Long Shank (WGRS)
44562 TW-3/8 x .150 ..... 3/8” x .150 Long Shank (WGRS)
51105 TW-3/8 x .150 ..... 3/8” x .150

1440 TW-1/2 x .050 ...... 1/2” x .050
1441 TW-1/2 x .093 ...... 1/2” x .093
1442 TW-1/2 x .125 ...... 1/2” x .125

- Long shanks are used with WGRS Receiver Sights

FP Target Attaching Bases
1226 Target-FP #540
1229 Target-FP #75
1235 Target-FP #64

47478 Target Globe Sight w/Inserts (.545 high from center, not including base)
47620 Globe Sight Attaching Base - Dovetail (Low) .220
47621 Globe Sight Attaching Base - Dovetail (High) .465
47622 Globe Sight Attaching Base - Screw On Height .300, Radius .300
47623 Globe Sight Attaching Base - Screw On Height .450, Radius .350
47624 Globe Sight Attaching Base - Screw On Height .215, Radius .400

:coffeecom

[W.R.Buchanan]

You failed to say what you are trying to accomplish with what kind of gun?

The problem with the Williams Sights as far as use in competitive events is that they just don't repeat. I have several of these sights and have installed Target Knobs etc. on all of them. Really it is pointless, they are fine if you set them and don't move them, like on a hunting rifle. As soon as you release the slide pinch screw the sight has changed zero and the direction is not predictable.

The problem is they do not have click adjustments that repeat, and the dovetail of the slide is only a one sided affair and can't and won't repeat it's position if moved. The only remedy for this is to change the name on the sight to Lyman, or to install a real live target sight like a Redfield Olympic or Palma or one of the really high dollar ones that have made the Redfield's and Lyman's obsolete (so to speak).

I have Lyman sights on several rifles. These sights are all target style sights for my Springfield's (Lyman 48c) or on my Leverguns, Lyman 66LA's which are not as precise and similar to Lyman 57's, but still repeat close enough for a Levergun shooting at 200 meters max..

Still all of these sights can be adjusted to a new elevation, and then adjusted back to a mechanical zero and it will repeat everytime, because the way the elevation screw is held in place allows it to be disengaged and re engaged the same way everytime. Also the dovetails that the slides run in are a relatively close fit and are much more accurate than the Williams sights.

On the Williams sights, as soon as you release clamp screw for the elevation slide, where it goes to is anyone's guess since it is not captured on both sides like the Lyman dovetails work. And when you tighten the clamp screw back down, the thing may or may not reflect the amount of adjustment that you input. The Lyman sights do. Also the Lyman sights have much better and accurate markings than the Williams sights do so they are easier to precisely adjust and return to a previous setting by simply dialing in the amount of clicks to achieve the new elevation. Or the slide can be quick released and moved to a much higher position which would correspond to a certain number of clicks, and it will repeat the position everytime. Then when done the sight may be quick released back to a mechanical zero by simply pushing a button and sliding the slide down to a stop after the knob is turned to the zero position. Mechanical zero repeats exactly everytime and as long as the elevation knob is zeroed. If it is 1/2 or 1/4 MOA off (IE:1 click) the QD nut will not reengage the elevation screw. This amazes me no end., but it works.

If you are using a Bolt Action Service Rifle (Springfield) for long range shooting, you are pretty limited to a Lyman Long Slide 48C or later version.

And I am speaking only of the older all steel versions of the Lyman sights. The new aluminum versions are only slightly better than the Williams sights.

Ebay is pretty much the only source for these older sights or you might get lucky at a gun show or garage sale. They usually don't go cheap unless someone doesn't know what he has. I have seen Lyman 48 C's go for over $500 on Ebay. I paid $150 for the last one I bought and it was far from pristine. It did however clean up with some work.

Randy

[Old School Big Bore]

ohland, thanks for the info. I tried to find some aperture part numbers on the Williams site and found the site to be very difficult to navigate and full of dead ends, for example if you go to the parts page there are no blasted parts. They lost a couple-of-hundred-dollar sale because of this problem; besides the apertures I needed, I was going to buy two Foolproofs and a couple of front sight assemblies, instead I dug in my bag-o-sights and resuscitated a couple of old steel Redfields to accomplish what I needed. I assume from your post that you work at Williams. It would do their sales a lot of good if someone would overhaul their site to increase the utility of it. Thanks again for the info and please kick some booty over there.

[ohland]

You failed to say what you are trying to accomplish with what kind of gun? Randy

Oh, almost forgot, I shoot a 540XR. I have a few Contenders I want to play with cast boolits and iron sights.

In my all-knowing style, I said "Folks, I find the Williams FoolProof sights are not 1,000 yard match competitive, but they do pretty good." Everything you said is just so. I find the tick marks on the side aren't numbered and aren't vernier. I do have one of the "Deluxe" Target High FP, and there is little difference between it and a TK version, except there are white hash marks on the knob stems, but there is still no d*mn numbers on the upper staff. So you have unknown revolutions per unmarked vertical hashmark. So I wonder how one competes in smallbore silhouette, from the chee-kuns, to the pigs, to the turkeys, then the rams.

I suppose that one could use a 90 degree spotting drill to etch a hash mark on the windage knob, use a rotary table to mark out 20 hash marks on top of the upper staff around the knob. Mark one hash mark as 0, then stamp an arrow for up... What to do about the vertical hashmarks, I dunno right now. I have a few FP here, there is ONE small white hash on the upper staff. And it is almost covered entirely by the Target knob. It takes 20 clicks to make one full turn of the elevation screw. Oh my, each small mark on the vertical scale is worth... 20 clicks. Must be it changes the sight .050" for each click.

[ohland]

assume from your post that you work at Williams

Wish I did, the 2012 catalog was a grainy mess. I find part numbers on Brownells. If you go to the Williams Gunsite website, the Contact Us link has a phone number and a mailing address. No email. Though I believe I have an old reply from them somewhere. Need to dig it up and ask about the replacement part numbers...

When my FP-TC-TK-Blade comes in, I want to disassemble it and lay out the pieces. And name them.

I found the angled bushing listed on Midway? or Brownell? it is somehow connected to the Ruger rifle... There is NO logic in searching for parts.

Waiting for the sight to come in so I can measure the screws before I buy the TKs. Though I'm pretty sure the long TKs will work.

[ohland]

older sights or you might get lucky at a gun show or garage sale. Randy

No, hell no. Ain't much left but elevator blades and screws. Very uncommon to see any decent sights, musta been all those GM workers with the deep pockets...

[ohland]

Not holding my breath, the address is from 2011. It begs disbelief that any modern company that would like to sell "bling" has zero information on it's website. I would like to pimp my FP with knobs that have index marks like the Target High does.

Yes, it does nothing about repeatability, no it won't make an FP able to compete at Palma, and I rather doubt that Anschutz will adopt Williams as the sight manufacturer for their match rifles. But it might look better... Gold caps on my teeth, or target knobs with index marks on my FP...
:coffeecom

[ohland]

Folks, to my surprise, I had two emails waiting, one was from the nice order entry person saying that my question on the lack of any FP / 5D sight part list on the William Gunsight website was sent to her supervisor, and the second was an offer (which I quickly accepted!) to send me the full parts list for the sights.

In other days, I'd opine "them boys ain't ra-a-a-h-h-t" and shake my head. I still don't know why Williams would not identify any additional or replacement parts for their sights. Not expecting anything but retail prices, wouldn't want them to undercut their dealers.

Never had a desire for "Tacticool". But I do want to pimp my FP... ;)

:coffeecom

[ohland]

Got a note from Williams this morning, the FP parts list should be in the mail on Tuesday.

:coffeecom