Lee Crimp Dies?

[barnabus]

Hello!

I need a specific answer to the following question. I am just getting started using my 550B and Im wanting to use Lee crimp dies in the last station of my press. Lee offers crimp dies in several calibers that I want to load for. As an example they offer both 45acp taper crimp die and a 45acp "factory crimp" die in same caliber.What is the difference? Which one should I use?I have posted this elsewhere put all they tell me is what they are using (not Lee) which doesnt answer my question.Any help would be appreciated.

[AnthonyB]

The Lee Factory Crimp Die includes a carbide sizer ring that sizes the brass just like a sizer die. IMO, that is a bad thing, especially with cast bullets. Run from the factory crimp die and use the taper crimp die.
Tony

[Themoose]

Barnabus,

I will give you a specific answer... now it may not be widely agreed to... but, I believe the difference is that the taper crimp gives you the option of going anywhere from no crimp to a very firm crimp and is very gradual... the factory crimp is more pronounced and is firmer... if you have any military ball ammo around look at the crimp on the cases.... there is a visible ring where the crimp is applied... on taper crimped ammo it is smooth....

To confuse you even more... Lee also makes more than one type of factory crimp die for the same caliber... I have been playing with reloading 44Mag for a couple of rifles for deer hunting... I am shooting heavy cast bullets that are GC's and stoutly poweered... I needed a firm crimp for consistent performance and was given the tip to get a Lee factory crimp for 44 mag... I did and I ordered it from the pistol list... well, there is also a "rifle" Factory Crimp for 44 mag... and from what I'm told is the best one for my purposes... so I have both... I haven't tested them side by side to see what the difference will make because I am still pursuing the "perfect boolit" and just got my new LBT 260LFN to try.

TheMoose

[felix]

Tony is absolutely correct! Actually, a taper crimp adjusted properly will hold a boolit better than a roll crimp from a normal roll crimping die. It therefore stands to reason any kind clamper type of crimper die will fall short as well. ... felix

[DougGuy]

Those carbide rings in the bottom of the FCD aren't all the same either! Some are tighter/smaller than others. The use of the FCD is mostly shunned on this forum because casters use boolits greater than the SAAMI spec'd .451" diameter. If you are using a smaller boolit, the FCD may not even size down your boolit depending on the diameter of it's carbide ring. However, if you are shooting "as cast" boolits, or boolits that are running .452"+ the FCD will most likely size that boolit smaller once the finished round is passed through it.

For this reason most here use the taper crimp and trial fit the finished rounds into the barrel (the "plunk test") and that's all they will need for loading .45 ACP.

For straight walled cartridges like the .44 Magnum and .45 Colt, I really have taken a liking to Lee's uncatalogued collet type factory crimp dies when loading heavy for caliber boolits. As recoil impulses increase with heavy boolits, the crimp must still be able to hold the boolit from moving, and I find these dies second to none for this purpose once you get them modified and tweaked to your liking. Will a roll crimp hold well enough to do the job? Probably so but the collet crimp is failsafe. For a backup pistol in hunting hogs, failsafe is a LOT more gooder than just plain outta be good enough..

[C. Latch]

I use a lee taper crimp doe on my .45acp reloads and have a hard time imagining those bullets moving under .45 recoil.

[Beesdad]

I run 4 loadmasters will Lee FCD as the last station in each (45,38 & 9mm) and it works for me ... No feed issues on the 45's or 9's.

[DougGuy]

I use a lee taper crimp doe on my .45acp reloads and have a hard time imagining those bullets moving under .45 recoil.

Awful lot of difference between .45 ACP and a 300+gr WFN over 22.5gr H110 in .45 Colt.

Edit: Beesdad, I sent you a PM..

[barnabus]

so if im loading cast bullets in .380acp,9mm,357 mag,44mag and 45acp that yall would use the taper crimp die instead of the factory crimp in the last station? Also i have typically that a roll crimp is used in .357mag and 44 mag but are u saying it doesnt matter and a taper crimp is good enough?

[DougGuy]

Taper crimp should not be used on a straight walled pistol cartridge like the .357 or .44 magnum. Auto pistols that headspace on the case mouth should be taper crimped and not roll crimped.

[dudel]

When loading J-words, I run the Lee factory crimp die, and have no problems. If I'm running very oversized boolits then I don't use the factory crimp die; but then I need to case gauge each and every one. Normally my boolits aren't so oversized that the Lee factory crimp die causes a problem, so I run with it.

A lot will depend on your chamber. If you run a tight chamber than you may have a problem with very oversized boolits in the first place; loose chamber, not so much. Many people who pooh pooh the factory crimp die fail to realize that factory ammo goes through a post sizer as a final step. Of course factory ammo also tends to be jacketed.

Bottom line, if the round is within spec (AND Lee did a good job cutting the ring!), the sizer on the factory crimp die won't do a thing. If your oversized boolit takes you outside the specs, then you have a choice to make.

At around $15, it costs little to try. If you find you don't like it, punch out the carbide ring, and you have a good crimp die.

[enfieldphile]

I agree w/ Felix & Tony.

I like and use Lee dies EXCEPT for that Factory Carbide Crimp die.

We are talking seating and crimping as separate steps. A lead alloy boolit will always fare better if the steps are done separately.

For .45acp, I use a Lee Taper Crimp die. The 45acp headspace s on the case mouth and needs the square edge of brass.

For revolver ammo, I use a Redding Profile crimp die. Since the revolver rounds (.357, .38, .44 special/mag) all have a rim to headspace on, the Profile die is a combo taper/roll crimp. Well worth the price.

[C. Latch]

Awful lot of difference between .45 ACP and a 300+gr WFN over 22.5gr H110 in .45 Colt.


I agree there.

So far I really like my redding profile crimp die for the .45 Colt. :)

Don't think it's needed for .45 ACP though.

[barnabus]

Looks like yall are as confused as I am! If you cant or shouldnt use a taper crimp die on .357 or 44 mag then what does Lee sell them?

[KYCaster]

Looks like yall are as confused as I am! If you cant or shouldnt use a taper crimp die on .357 or 44 mag then what does Lee sell them?



A taper crimp works just fine on straight wall cases like .357 mag and .44 mag.

The problem with auto pistol rounds is that the bullets normally don't have a crimp groove so if you try to seat and crimp with the same die, the mouth of the case will scrape metal off the bullet.....not often a problem with jacketed, but quite a mess with lead. Seat and crimp in two steps solves the problem.

Bullets designed for revolver cartridges usually have a crimp groove. This allows you to start the crimp while the seat stem is still pushing the bullet deeper into the case. When everything works right it...ummm, well.....just works.

Sometimes the crimp and crimp groove dimensions don't exactly fit.....or maybe the crimp groove is in the wrong location for the OAL your cylinder length will accept.....or you want to use a bullet without a crimp groove. If that's the case, a taper crimp is the answer.

The Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die......is an elegant solution to a non existent problem. If you have to use the FCD to make your ammo fit your gun, what you really need to do is find the cause of the problem and fix it at it's source.

Jerry

[RedHawk357Mag]

Got a question...post number 5 "I really have taken a liking to Lee's uncatalogued collet type factory crimp dies when loading heavy for caliber boolits." Does this die have the carbide ring in it or is it like the rifle dies and does not have the carbide ring? thanks

[DougGuy]

It does not have the carbide ring, it has a four fingered collet that closes to make the crimp like the rifle dies.

Don't really want to steer this thread so I will link to a thread with pics detailing how I use it and how I modded it to get it to do what I wanted it to do: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?201449-Question-about-type-of-crimp-required&p=2239315&viewfull=1#post2239315

[mdi]

The Lee FCD for handgun ammo is a crimp die with a sizing ring at the mouth of the die. If your post seating cartridges are larger than this ring, then it will swage the case down to ?? specs. I had one but it now resides in a landfill somewhere in Southern Oregon. With proper die adjustments, no need for an FCD. I load and shoot 45 ACP and 9mm and use a taper crimp die, not to hold the bullet in place, but to straighten the case sides to insure chambering (see "thunk test").

[RedHawk357Mag]

Thanks DougGuy very informative link. And answers my question.

[DLCTEX]

I use the Lee CD in 45 acp with no problems. I size my boolits to. 452 and unless something is out of order the carbide ring never touches the loaded round. If I feel drag upon lowering the ram, it's time to check what's wrong. I don't have to worry if the round will chamber if AOL is correct. If I were to load fatter boolits I would not use the CD. It does the job it was designed to do.
Note: this tablet will not let me type fcd in the above but seems to in editing. If it changes this to CD
I mean the abbreviation for factory crimp die. I also typed oal not AOL and it would not permit correction. Fun.