Help the new guy!

[SmitA]

Good day Everyone.

I'm form South Africa and have been following a lot of threads form this site with regards to bullet making. Currently I'm a Fullbore long range shooter and since we shoot A LOT, I want to tackle on this project of bullet making just out of curiosity to see if one can duplicate a long range bullet.

Currently I'm still at the bullet jacket drawing stage.:roll: I got myself a 0.7mm thick sheet of copper and made a punching mechanism to punch copper discs out of the copper.

I want to make a 155gr .308 bullet.

Can anyone help me with the following:

What are the specific "increments" that one has to draw the jackets in? (different stages?)

Currently I punch a 30mm disc, then cup it to 25mm. From there I draw it to 15mm and then I want to draw to a 10mm, and finally a 7.5mm. For some or other reason when I try to go form 15mm to 10mm the drawing punch actually punches through in stead of drawing the jacket?

I've watched a youtube video series on making the bullet drawing dies and as far as I'm concerned my dies looks almost exactly the same? I can't figure out where I am going wrong?:confused:

I would appreciate any advice and help with this.:)

Thanks in advance

Cheers

[Smokin7mm]

Are you annealing the cups between draws? Might only required annealing about every other draw. The material is probably work hardening and not forming correctly. Also what lube are you using?

Bret

[SmitA]

Hi Smokin7mm,

I don't anneal the cups between draws. The copper is a very soft pure copper so as far as I understood, annealing is not necessary? I've seen a lot of guys drawing bullet jacket without annealing without any problem?

To be honest, I use normal brass case lube. Making your own bullets in South Africa is very rare to find, and I know of no dealer who stocks the correct lube.:roll:

Is there any alternatives one can use as lube? If the lube is the problem then I will be kicking myself for punching so may holes in the cups![smilie=b:

[BLASTER62]

Corbin makes a good high pressure lube for that. www.swagedies.com

[MUSTANG]

You should be able to make your own draw lube using Lanolin or Lanolin and Vaseline, or.... There are several recipes and discussions on this sight concerning various draw/swage lubes. I use Dissolved Lanolin in 97% or better Alcohol, you might be able to find the makings in South Africa if importing a product is difficult.


Concerning the draw of the cup; I would try an intermediary size between your 10MM and 7.5MM sizes. This and annealing should help. As you draw down copper (and brass, and...) it becomes more brittle. Annealing may soften and help.

[Zymurgy50]

Pure anhydrous lanolin and pure castor oil mixed together will make an excellent swage lube. In one of my conversations with Dave Corbin he mentioned that he slow cooks the mixture to dissolve the lanolin and castor oil together. I dont remember the exact mix, but I am thinking 70% or 80% lanolin. Do try annealing the cups between every other draw. Copper will work harden, and I think you are getting to the brittle stage. If you have a temperature controlled kiln I suggest about 1100*f.
Quenching is not necessary, but if you drop the cups into a waterbath with a bit of citric acid it will keep the scale to a manageable level.

[DAVE A]

What wall thickness are your jackets?

[bullet maker 57]

Did you polish the punch and the inside of the draw die? How much are you thinning the walls on each draw? What press are you using?

[Swede44mag]

Do you have a polished radius or a sharp edge on the die the cup goes into to reduce the size.
If the edge is to sharp the rod you use to push the cup through will punch through the cup instead if reducing it.
What the others have said about annealing and type of lube is also important.
There is a You-Tube on a forum member making a set of dies for 357 that may be helpfull.

Good luck I would also like to be able to make jackets for 6mm, 30cal & 45cal.

[aaronraad]

I just use olive oil for drawing jackets so far, extra virgin of course. Saw this on a Norma factory tour video.

Drawing without annealing is possible but is done at very high speed from what I've seen.

Starting out with 0.7mm pure copper might not help, as I assume it's softer than 95/5 or 90/10. Your wall thickness is less than 0.030" to begin with and I wouldn't be surprised to see the wall thickness drop well below 0.020" by the third draw even with perfect clearances.

If the punch is pushing through, the friction forces along the walls of the die and jacket are greater than the tensile forces at the base of jacket? From memory the punch needs to have a 4mm radiused fillet, which you need to minimise based on your punch diameter obviously. You could try trimming the walls after the 2nd draw as I'm sure you have excess length for your 155gr, which only needs a 1.150-1.200" length jacket even in a VLD. Less wall length, less friction? Remember also that that you're looking for a finished jacket diameter of about 0.3065" +/-0.0005", maybe 7.5mm(0.2958") is too much but I'm not sure how much spring-back you are expecting.

I hope you're doing this for love and not cost.

[Utah Shooter]

I just use olive oil for drawing jackets so far, extra virgin of course. Saw this on a Norma factory tour video.

Funny you say that. I actually use Sunflower Seed Oil.

[SmitA]

Wow... Thank you for all the advice guys! I have noticed just by reading your comments that there are a few things I can still work on a bit more like the radius for the drawing die and the punch.

Currently we only form the cup, but haven't yet started with drawing the actual wall thickness as we are still struggling just to form the cup without it punching through. The copper strip that we work with is 0.7mm thick and I noticed that when the cup does not want to go further into the drawing die, the piece that is into the die stretches until it becomes to thin and then shear through.

I will definitely start using the oil and see how that works. If that does not work then I will start looking into those lanolin mixtures.

I also think that the fact that we don't use a specific press is also not working as we apply small amounts of pressure (in a vise) at a time and that gives the material the time to do its own thing in stead of just going through the die with a powerfull stroke. There was a thread on the forum of someone posting a plan to build our own swagging press. I downloaded that plan and 2 weeks back we got all the necessary materials to build that press. I think if that is completed things should be going a lot better.

Thanks for all the great advice and help!
If I manage to do all the drawing then I will definitely post a picture or 2.

Thanks!