Ok I,m a LeverHead that needs advice on Favorite 45-70 molds

[reddoggm]

Just picked up a marlin 1895 45-70 and i was wondering if the Cast Boolits Mold genies could shed some light on a favorite mold in or around a 405 grain pill Looks like I,ll be buying one for the ole 94 Winny and now for the 45-70 Man I like Leverguns
Thanks Fellas The DOGG!!!

[btroj]

NOE 405 plain base.

[waco]

Rcbs 405-rf

[longbow]

I had a fondness for the Lyman 457124 385 gr. when I had my old 1970's vintage 1895. It just seemed to shoot better than the 405 gr.

I liked it anyway.

I shot mostly Lyman 457125 500 gr. in my Siamese Mauser conversion but I do not recall if I ever tried them in the Marlin.

I shot that 457124 over both BP and smokeless in the Marlin and some rather stout smokeless loads too. At that time I was young and poor and loaded them all with Lee Loaders and lubed by hand using Valvoline PB wheelbearing grease. Never had any leading issues at all with that grease ~ messy as all get out smearing grease on boolits then loading them though. No, I do not do that anymore!

Loved that Marlin too. It was the old straight grip stock which is my favourite. It was a casualty on my needing money for college. never replaced it.

I am sure you will enjoy yours.

Longbow

[zuke]

NOE 330gr HP,GC that's PP

[Wayne Smith]

When you want to expand from the 405 grain get the Lyman 457122 Gould HP. It is the original Eastern deer/bear boolit for the 45-70

[Clay M]

Rcbs 405-rf

+ 1 on this mold. I have own it for years and it shoots well in everything I have. My bullets come out .459 with Lyman #2

[reddoggm]

Thanks for the Input guys I have alot of thinking to do about which one or maybe 2 I should get I like the idea of having a nice hunting boolit can,t use it in Ohio but can in alot of other states Anyone know If one of the Mold gurus make the 457122 in their flavor ?

[MtGun44]

That RCBS mold is actually the 405 GC, but I agree it is a top design for .45-70.

Bill

[reddoggm]

I was wondering if anyone besides Lyman makes a mold like the Lyman 457122 Gould HP in a 4 or 5 cavity

[John Allen]

I really like the 405 grain ones. They feed nice in my marlin

[Bigslug]

The RCBS 405 GC has proven excellent for accuracy in everything I've launched it out of.

In the process of trying the NOE 405 plain base (they have a GC version too). Nice that they have it as a 4-cavity.

The RCBS has a .27 caliber meplat and does a marvelous job of using it to transfer energy into whatever it collides with. The NOE is bigger at .33. These are sledge hammers - hollowpoints not required.

[reddoggm]

The RCBS 405 GC has proven excellent for accuracy in everything I've launched it out of.

In the process of trying the NOE 405 plain base (they have a GC version too). Nice that they have it as a 4-cavity.

The RCBS has a .27 caliber meplat and does a marvelous job of using it to transfer energy into whatever it collides with. The NOE is

bigger at .33. These are sledge hammers - hollowpoints not required.

Why thank you for the Info Bigslug

[MBTcustom]

Just my 2cents based on my experiences with my 1895 guide gun:
The nose needs to be short enough to feed and function properly. I bought the Lyman 457193 and I had trouble with accuracy. Not surprising because the nose on that boolit is about .430 long past the first driving band, which forced me to jump the boolit about .050 to the rifling. Also, the Lyman cast at 458 right on the money, and I really needed a .459-.460 diameter boolit if I expect any manner of accuracy.
What I have found is that the ideal length for the nose of the boolit in an 1895 GG is .350. If the meplat of the boolit is that length from the first driving band, then you will have no problems feeding, and the driving band can be pushed right into the rifling no problemo.
Anyway, I'm no expert or anything, but take it for what it's worth.
I'm going out with my rifle Saturday and trying two new boolit molds both of which are available from Accurate Molds: http://accuratemolds.com/catalog.php?page=8
46-355R
and 46-405K
I'm hoping the K will work because it's a big nasty SWCer, it drops at .462, and it has a nose that allows me to engrave the first driving band in the rifling beautifully!
I also have high hopes for the R because it's a TL design, and is just so easy to cast and lube. Also it's a touch lighter which makes it less of a laughable option for Arkansas whitetail and hogs.

Just to give you an idea of what you have there, penetration is not an issue with these guns. With that Lyman boolit I mentioned up yonder, loaded on top of 24 grains of 2400 (gives me a lethargic 1400fps IIRC) I can shoot it one handed and it's just such a pussycat of a load. Yep, a real pussycat........and it will blow right through a big, round, wet hay bail from any direction! It will shoot through any sized telephone pole you care to shoot it at (I blew chunks out the other side of a 12 incher the other day while my buddies watched in wide eye'd wonder.)

[Dale53]

I have one of the original Marlin late issues with Ballard Rifling for the 45/70. I tried two home cast bullets. The Lyman 457643 was designed for the Marlin 1895. It never shot up to my expectations. I tried the Lee 457-340F a nominal 340 grs and got consistent 1½" groups at 100 yards with an appropriate charge of RL-7 (my favored powder for the old black powder rounds).

The nice thing about the Lee bullet is that it can be used as the practice bullet and the similar weight Gould 457322 hollow point bullet (which is slower to cast) can be reserved for hunting. Practice with the solid and hunt with the hollow point. The Lee moulds are two cavity and quite inexpensive and frankly, I have generally had good luck with the Lee moulds. I would, no doubt, prefer a Mihec, Noe, or Accurate Molds multi-cavity mould for general use, but the fact remains the Lee mold makes a very good bullet in my Ballard Rifling Marlin 1895. When I bought my moulds, the custom mold people were not yet in business. I have examples by all mentioned except Accurate Molds and agree with everyone that they are FINE molds.

FWIW
Dale53

[GabbyM]

I think this is #46-415V in accurate catalog. Same page Goodsteel linked to. My mold is from a group buy here in a set of Lee six cavity blocks. This photo makes it look smaller that it is. Big hunk of lead. Typically 410 grains form a hard alloy. Bullet was designed to feed in the Marlin. Runs good in a AR-15 in 458 SOCOM also we discovered.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51661&d=1284655910

[reddoggm]

goodsteel Ya think you can post how those new pills work for ya I,m very interested in all the posts you guys are giving me Sounds like I might end up with more than 1 mold but want to start with something that seems to have commen ground with a majority I,m not afraid to experiment just don,t want to do it at a hard expense as I think like most my casting / shooting $$$ gets a little tight
Maybe I could send some or all you guys with different bullets some $$$ and buy a little of some of yours and load em up and try them
If anyone thinks they could work this out with me It would sure help in seeing what This 1895 Likes to eat and Hit

[BDJ]

In the 1895 Marlin that I have my favorite bullet is accurate molds 46-405V, very accurate and deadly with it's .37 meplat.
Here in Ohio I can't hunt deer with a rifle but can use a hand gun. My fix for this little problem is a T/C Contender 15 inch barrel in 45-70 shooting Tom's 46-350V shot at 1200 fps, works well on the deer and coyotes.

[reddoggm]

Yea I hunt here in the Buckeye myself Ruger LC or my old Auto 12

[Terrence Clarke]

I also use the accurate molds 46-355R and it has taken very large pigs here in Australia,38 grains of AR2207 is a mild accurate load in my marlin XLR

[reddoggm]

Guys I thank you for the input / advice
goodsteel you ever test those new bullets ?

[MBTcustom]

Well, I ended up going to a private range that didn't have a bench, so all shots were taken offhand.
All things considered, I think both boolits are a big step up from what I had in the Lyman.
At 50 yards, I believe no golfball would be safe.
Then I started popping at a 12" target set out at 300 yards. Took me a few shots to figure out the hold over, but I was scaring the heck out of it. At that range, I had to set the entire front post on top of the rear blade like a chess pawn and put the ball on top of the target.
I really want to get a Williams peep on this and try it again, as I believe I could do much better. As it was, I was pretty much just "using the Force".
My buddy is an exceptional shot and drilled a 1" group offhand with the 46-405K.

Not very conclusive, but we were just plinking.
I'll post better results when I get it on a bench.

[reddoggm]

goodsteel sounds like doting the I sight lineup I have a set of XS sights (the Big dot) on a 1911 that lines up like that Hey buddy keep me informed I,m chompin at the bit to buy a mold but want ta hear more about what your working with there
I,ll end up buying a couple before it,s said and done (never done) but want to try to buy wisely if thats possible
Thanks again
The DOGG!!!

[Wayne Smith]

I was wondering if anyone besides Lyman makes a mold like the Lyman 457122 Gould HP in a 4 or 5 cavity

I don't think I have seen anyone else offering this. I have not followed all the group buys, however.

[reddoggm]

I don't think I have seen anyone else offering this. I have not followed all the group buys, however.

I was thinking this might be a nice mold in a 3 or more cavity version HP 1 or 2 and blank the others Everything I read about this mold says it,s a bada$$ hunting boolit
Thanks Wayne The DOGG!!!

[Wayne Smith]

This mold is still a current Lyman mold. While I agree it might be nice in a 3 or 4 cavity I am happy with my single. Monday AM I cast 70 of them, and this mold demands pressure casting with my ladle, met with a guy who is going to saw a tree into lumber in my back yard, and then went to work for the afternoon. That's 70 of them cast, sized and lubed and ready to load. This to replace some I have sent to two of our members to try. This is a deep, narrow HP pin, it might work in a multiple mold and it may not. My advice is to get what you can while you can. If a multiple becomes available you can always upgrade and sell what you have. Even if one becomes available I'll stay with what I have. This is with three of us shooting it, and my best friend casting his own with my mold, and me sending others some to try before buying.

[reddoggm]

You know your right Wayne 70 is alot of bullets for the 45-70 and if you spend a few quality casting days at it cast /sized and lubed thats alot of shooting I saw one of the gould molds on amizon for 71.00 I,ll have to take a good hard look at buying it
Thanks again Wayne

[Explorer1]

Ranch Dog 425, have had great success with it in several Guide Guns.

http://www.ranchdogoutdoors.com/bin/TLC460425RF/bullet/sketch.jpg

[Bigslug]

Had some good experiences today. The RCBS 405 GC continues to amaze: Had a bunch loaded up with a charge that turned out not to be the preferred amount for a Baikal double, so shot them through a rolling block (globe sights) at 100 yards to confirm its zero. Factoring in the human-error issues, it's probably a one-hole gun; for ten rounds, four were touching, three nearly so, and the other three opened things up to about a four-inch total.

Also had the first trial of the NOE 405PB today. Have not wrung it out for accuracy yet, but the way in which it transfers energy off it's .33" nose is simply unbelievable. We were blowing up Florida Premium OJ jugs at 25Y. C4 might have done a more thorough job. . .maybe. The water was displaced so forcefully that the 1/4" deep layer of loose sand/rocks/clay pigeon bits on top of the underlying hardpack was blown totally clear for about a foot from the jugs in all directions. Makes a VERY neat and visible hole in paper too.

[TXGunNut]

Just my 2cents based on my experiences with my 1895 guide gun:
The nose needs to be short enough to feed and function properly. I bought the Lyman 457193 and I had trouble with accuracy. Not surprising because the nose on that boolit is about .430 long past the first driving band, which forced me to jump the boolit about .050 to the rifling. Also, the Lyman cast at 458 right on the money, and I really needed a .459-.460 diameter boolit if I expect any manner of accuracy.
What I have found is that the ideal length for the nose of the boolit in an 1895 GG is .350. If the meplat of the boolit is that length from the first driving band, then you will have no problems feeding, and the driving band can be pushed right into the rifling no problemo.
Anyway, I'm no expert or anything, but take it for what it's worth. -Goodsteel

I'm no expert either but my GG and Tim's must be twin sisters, mine doesn't much care for the 457193 or 457122 but it loves the Ranch Dog 460-350. Michael designed it for the Marlin so it should be no surprise. It's a GC decign so it's just the ticket if you decide to go fast. I'm thinking I'd like the NOE 405 if it's a PB for a fun plinker.

[reddoggm]

Just bought the NOE 405 PB and looking forward to having at it can,t wait I think I,ll look into the Ranch dog 460-350 to go fast
Thanks fellas keep it coming

[Bigslug]

Just bought the NOE 405 PB and looking forward to having at it can,t wait I think I,ll look into the Ranch dog 460-350 to go fast
Thanks fellas keep it coming

There's a few ways you can look at that, but consider that "fast" is a relative term. I've seen the RCBS 405GC ramped up to "kills on both ends" levels in the Marlins. The accuracy is still there, and the trajectory is flatter,but at that point, you are pounding yourself for no real increase in killing power and the flight path is still a far cry from the basic bolt action offerings that will abuse you a lot less. Nothing wrong with a 350 grain pill, but you'll never make the .45-70 into a .220 Swift. Better - I think - to seek other rifles for your long range hunting plans.

The .45-70 can be a real long range humdinger, but not terribly so with the bullet choices appropriate to a lever action repeater. The more aerodynamic "ICBM" bullets are tailored more for the single-shot options and are usually "lobbed" rather than "rocketed". I would personally tend to regard the Marlin platform as a sub-200 yard system, load your 405 NOE to about 1400-1500 fps, and sleep warm in the knowledge that it should flatten darn near anything that walks.

[reddoggm]

I follow what your saying I damn sure don,t want to dislocate my shoulder at the expense of a longer flight I think at the 200 yard range and sledge hammering what I,m hitting and not my shoulder I would be achieving the maximum of the Marlins capability

[TXGunNut]

Yes, fast is a relative thing. In my GG @ about 1700 the eyepiece is adjusting my eyeglasses so I don't go any faster. The gun and boolit is able, I'm just not willing. ;-)

[MBTcustom]

Ok, I got to really rag out both of the boolits I mentioned earlier in this thread.
I went to the range with about 175 of them, evenly divided between the two designs.
Boom Boom Boom Boom!
Shuck Shuck Shuck Shuck
Boom Boom Boom Boom!
Shuck Shuck Shuck Shuck
It went on and on and on and on! Bwahahahahaha!
The poor guy on the bench next to me was trying to do some precision work with a Cooper .22, and I believe I made it awful hard for him to stay on target. I was running that levergun like a $2 rented mule and working over rocks and wood chunks on the backstop like a boss! Everything I shot at was having a really bad day. I do believe I could wipe out a 6 pack of pepsi cans with as many shots at 100 yards. It is soooooooo nice to have a load that your gun loves and a pile of ammo you can't get through very quickly. We were sweeping up 45-70 brass like 22LR. They were everywhere.

I still can't decide which I like better. Both are amazingly accurate in this gun.
All the boolits but 50 were lubed with 45-45-10 and loaded over 26 grains of 2400 powder.
I feel I liked the recoil profile of the 46-455-R just a little better than the 46-405-K, but that boolit eats a GC every time (So what?) All things considered, I would hunt with either of them in a heartbeat, and have no doubt whatsoever that my shot is going where I am aiming. Both had a very similar impact point, both were very accurate, and both were more fun than anybody should have with their clothes on.

I confess, I was so elated that all my shots were hitting what I was aiming at, I went a little bit hog wild. I had intended to shoot some of them from the bench like a gentleman, but I started shooting and went all "Attila the Hun" with it!
I gotta load em up and do that again! Wow what a good time!
I'm not soon going to forget that little outing I assure you!

[reddoggm]

Tim great to hear this I do believe I,m gonna have to buy at least one more mold Let me ask ya what kind of alloy were you putting in them ? and also what kind of weight they were dropping at I surely do appriciate the update when ya get the time fill me in on the above specifics and I do believe I,m gonna order one more and see if MY 1895 likes the same diet
Thanks Tim

[rr2241tx]

Chiming in late but I just tried an Ideal 457194 that drops at 416 gr in 30:1 and .459 diameter. With 29.5 gr IMR SR-4759 it was a paper killer running them through my Miroku/Winchester 1886. It has a big round nose and a reduced first driving band ahead of the crimp groove. All I had left is one that has knocked around the office for a couple of months, so cheesy cell phone photo transgression is admitted.

97947

[FishingFool]

Accurate 46-405v plain base for me. 97946

[reddoggm]

I was looking at those molds FishingFool I still need to get ahold of goodsteel as per your PM Tim Try Friday around 7

[MBTcustom]

I just stuck GC's on the ones I'm sending you Dog. Pm me an address sometime and I'll kick 'em in the mail.

[DLCTEX]

I like the Lee 350 plain base, the RD 460-350, and the RD 460-420 in Marlin GG. Unfortunately I love SR 4759 powder in it and will soon have to work out a replacement.

[reddoggm]

I have been seeing some people talking about using 2400 as Low to Med load round I have 8lbs of Alliant 2400 sitting around Any one here ever use this in their 1895,s in say 350 to 400 + grain boolits The only problem I can see here is powder to case volume is awfull low and I would be afraid of detonation problems with the low volume of powder
Thanks the DOGG!!!

[MBTcustom]

That's all Ive been shooting Dogg!
26 grains of 2400 for both the 360 and the 405.
That's a hell of a way to sling some lead. I love it.

[reddoggm]

Tim still gonna call you tomorrow if your gonna be around (got the little ones right now) But what I need is your expertise knowledge on the detonation thing in these BIG BOOLITS with out filler and that tiny little bit of powder Iv,e been reading stuff on this is it fact or fiction or just use a filler like rice or OH NO toilet paper
Thanks Buddy let me know
The DOGG!!!

[MBTcustom]

I know all to well what you are worried about. I have had a near miss with S.E.E. myself, and it's nothing I want to experience again. The thing is, there are some powders that seem to ignore flash over, and some that are much more willing to go hay-wire.
There are several powders that I am not afraid to reduce, Red dot, Unique, 2400, and 3031 are just a few. These are very robust powders and extremely versatile. Unique is just that: Unique. I have run 30-06 with only 15 grains rattling around in the bottom of the case and it shoots like a champ. Darnedest thing.
So far, 2400 has been the same way only a little slower. I have no experience with red dot, but just do a google seach for "The Load" and you'll find lots of folks having good results.
3031 has been my go-to slower rifle powder for reduced cast loads since time immemorial. The very first cartridges I loaded with my father's supervision were 30-30s loaded with 168 gr cast lead, and 3031 powder.

My brush with S.E.E. was with H335 in a wildcat with quite a bit of space in the case. Glad I was shooting over a chronograph, because I believe I was only a couple shots away from a classic kaboom experience.

[reddoggm]

Ok I was considering (considering mind you) on trying a reduced load of H4198 but think I,ll do the 2400 instead since I,m chicken to start this new to me 1895 out with trigger flintch I wil go and Google The Load and read up on it but I believe I,ll follow suite on your recommended Works for you 2400 load
Thanks Tim
The DOGG!!!

[runfiverun]

2400 does very well in the 45/70.
I have used and not used a tuft of Dacron with it [shrug] if you want slightly smaller groups [or are gonna be shooting at a bunch of different up/down angles] use the Dacron.
22 and 24grs seems to be a sweet spot with and without the Dacron and the 435's I use.

[reddoggm]

I,m liking what I,m hearing fellas What do ya do rip a little carpet up to get the Dacron ?

[Smoke4320]

shot a Dacranimal and you will be set for years ..
Pillow stuffing I believe or a sewing shop will sell you all you need

[reddoggm]

Why Thank You Smoke I like that Dacranimal
The DOGG!!!