max powder charge for a 58?

[richbug]

I just picked up a 58 cal Italian Harpers Ferry Clone from a member here. What would you consider to be max charge for hunting purposes in it?

With 500 grain 575213?

with a .575" 285 gr grease patched RB?

I shot 90 of Goex 2f in it yesterday with the 575213. it struck 2" high at 60 feet, put 3 in a 3" group(I need to work on my flintch bad, 10 years away from a flint lock has changed me). No unburned powder I could see in the snow.

[Rattus58]

I don't know the Harpers Ferry, but a 58 is able to handle a little more than others of the same era due to the volume of the bore. In my Zoave I occasionally shot 130 grain loads just so I'd remember not to do it again. I preferred 80 grain loads and hunted with my Musketoon with 70 of Pyrodex P many times.

Aloha... :cool:

[44man]

What it depends on is the thickness of the Minie' ball's skirt. If thin, lighter loads need to be used because the skirt will flare open when it leaves the muzzle. A thick skirt can take more powder and the round ball even more. I would just slowly increase the load to find where accuracy goes to pot, then back down to where it was best. Some Minie' balls can only take 50 gr's max and others can go a lot higher.

[macvcallsign]

What do you plan to hunt with it? At what average range? With all the 213 molds that I have, they are all thin skirts. I would move the target out to a more realistic range(50-60 yds?) and work up a load. I would say 60 to 80 grs of 2f would be in the ball park unless you are going for larger game(Moose, Bear, etc.)
Sounds like a nice group going there but it will spread out as you reach out further. It is better to adjust from a mid-range either up or down for longer or shorter impact points on target.
Remember you usually only have one shot :)

Cheers

[StrawHat]

I too have one of the 58 calber Harpers Ferry rifles.

I used to hunt with a patched round ball over 100 grains of powder.

Then I found 80 grains worked as well on Ohio deer.

I recall using a lot more powder but found the recoil to be more than I liked.

I also never found a minie load that was equal to the PRB.

Good luck

[northmn]

The Harpers Ferry is a heavier built rifle thatn the cicil war muskets and can take a little more load but there is really no reason to overdo things as it takes a lot to gain anything in velocity over the charges others recommend. I used to shoot a heavy built 58 percussion with round ball and even placed with it at a bench rest match against custom in-lines. It really like 120 grains. As the 575 ball weighed about 270 grains that was not a heavy charge in a 1 1/8 in barrel. I did not like 110-120 grains for match shooting and sold that rifle. A rule of thumb, for which can be taken for just that as there are always exceptions, is to look at 1/2 the ball weight as a charge for round ball, which gives the 58 about 140 grains for a hunting load. Of course you would not use this formula for 500 grain minnie balls. I will say again that there is a law of diminishing returns when you go over a certain point. As Straw Hat and Rattus58 stated, the heavier loads really aren't that much fun unless you like hard kicking firearms also the 80 grain charges make meat. Remember that the buffalo guns did not generally shoot more than 90 grains and were often 70 grain loads. I've killed deer with lesser calibers and combinations. If you go for bigger game in a 58 a heavier or stronger bullet is better than trying to overdo the powder charge. Unlike modern guns, you really can't get a significant gain in velocity to magnumize a bore. Good shooting have fun.

Northmn

[PAT303]

That minnie won't like a heavy charge.I shoot a 640grn slug out of my PH musketoon with up to 80grns of FFFg but the recoil is strong.In my penetration box there is no difference once you go past 60 and my 50m target load is 30.They kill by leaving a big hole,not by any other means. Pat

[jonk]

I like 60 gr of FFFG or 70 gr of FFG for my Enfield- same caliber. I am using a fairly thin skirt minie though. 80 is my max. FYI 80 gr of Goex with a 585 gr minie chronographs at 1100 or so for me.... if you figure out the energy, that is on par with a 12 ga. slug- almost. Easily enough to whack a deer. No need to go faster.

[richbug]

I settled on 100 grains as a moderate hunting load with a 575 roundball. I went clear up to 150 and my flinch just got worse the higher I went badly hurting accuracy. Recoil doesn't bother me as much as the concussion/flash does. Just need to get more shooting in.

I have been chasing PA Whitetails with it over the last couple weeks. Missed one really easy shot because it hang-fired just a bit. Will get it worked out better before next year(needs a vent liner, and the frizzen is soft). Took a running shot at another, only to have one pop up 10 feet in front of me while I was standing there holding an empty gun.

Snow on the ground today, has been a high of 10 degrees the last couple days. Tomorrow should be a good hunting day, supposed to hit 40 or so.

[Hellgate]

With a 3" group @ 60 feet you may be flinching or the skirt is flaring. Probably the latter. The 575213 "Old Style" minie has a fairly thick skirt as does the 577611. My deer & elk hunting loads are 90grs FFg under the 577611 (530gr) minie in the 'Toon and 90 grs FFFg under the 575213-OS minie in the Zouave. I have them sighted in 5" hi@50 yards so they are right on at 100yds. The PRB maximum load will be where accuracy falls off but not much over 120grs powder. If your mold throws a sthn skirt you may be limited to about 60grs before accuracy goes bad.