Buffalo Classic goes to the range today

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

We actually hit 40 degrees here today after over a week of sub zero, I loaded up my toys
and headed to the range :grin:.

The buffalo really surprised me outta the gate today.
Set up at 50 yds to get on paper and this is what
happened with the first 3 shots
I almost loaded up and went home before wrecking the juju
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/James64/first-3-45-70-2-11-14_zps8e5045d4.jpg

Moved the sights, fired the bottom 3, then one more adjustment and fired the center shot
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/James64/45-70-group-2-50-yards-2-11_zpse79a61ac.jpg

On to 100 yards- first group lower left, then
move sight and fire the 2 shots in the bull
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/James64/45-70-100-yds-2-11-14_zps76d7b9f7.jpg

Cleaned up the target and fired the last group
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/James64/2014-02-11_16-30-12_708_zpsc77662b1.jpg

I think this baby might be a keeper!!!!!!!!!!!!

I had some other loads of 3031 at slightly lower velocity, they didn't group quite as well,
and they left lots of powder kernels in the barrel. The SR4759 burned very clean.
I spent the rest o my time with the Buff clanging the 100 yard gong when I could manage the trigger.
I don't know what the trigger pull weight is but it is certainly HEAVY, way to heavy, it must be addressed :)

the last fun thing was to try a new boolit in my 308.
Fuzzy cell phone pic shows some good promise as well
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v313/James64/308--2-11-14_zpsce7f822e.jpg

A great day at the range, and a bonus, I had the place all to myself!

[tacklebury]

Good shooting man. Definitely on par with what mine does with j-words. 8) I haven't shot hardly any cast in mine though, but have a bunch loaded including 330 goulds and 340 RCBS rnfp gas checked versions. I'm making my BC a cast only shooter from here on out and keeping the .350 Hornady FP's for the 22". I've been doing some bp loads previously, but without a grease cookie or gas checked lead, I'm getting pretty poor accuracy previously.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

BTW, those who where curious on the factory sights.
I had to run the rear ramp as high as it would go to get on at 100 yards.
Front sight is definitely too tall, rear sight is clumsy having to
remove the aperture to make any adjustments. It will be getting new sights in the future

Recoil? Whats that? Yeah, its gotta little thump but it isn't nasty- at these velocities anyway
(and wearing a few shirts and jackets) the lead dead mule in the butt stocked likely help too

[35 shooter]

Looks like a keeper to me for sure. Just made me want on bad! Even have dies, moulds, boolits and bullets....just no 45/70.

[Bohica793]

You're killing me, Jim. I'm gonna have to go ahead and bite the bullet and buy one now.

[taco650]

Good shooting man. Definitely on par with what mine does with j-words. 8) I haven't shot hardly any cast in mine though, but have a bunch loaded including 330 goulds and 340 RCBS rnfp gas checked versions. I'm making my BC a cast only shooter from here on out and keeping the .350 Hornady FP's for the 22". I've been doing some bp loads previously, but without a grease cookie or gas checked lead, I'm getting pretty poor accuracy previously.

Did I read this right? You have both versions of the 45-70 Handi Rifle? I've been thinking about getting one them but can't decide if the BC is worth the extra $$$. I want it for CB hunting and play time at the range. Any advice???

[tacklebury]

I have both also. Both have their place. The BC is a great accurate rifle, but the 22" is much better for carrying in the field. I've consigned my BC to be for cast now primarily and shooting from a bench. It's very front heavy and although I've carried it in the field, the 32" barrel gets hunt up in brush badly and gets very nose heavy for all day carry. I did rig a strap, but it's still a good bit heavier than the 22". I only use iron sights for deer hunting here, so out to 150 yards, there's no discernible difference in accuracy. Using BP, the BC is definitely better. ;)

[Rustyleee]

Taco, you could buy a 22" Handi then send the frame back to the factory to get the BC fitted. That would be the cheapest way unless you really like the BC style stock.

[taco650]

Taco, you could buy a 22" Handi then send the frame back to the factory to get the BC fitted. That would be the cheapest way unless you really like the BC style stock.

I like the 22" stock style better but good to know the 32" can be factory fitted. Thanks for the info Rustylee and Tacklebury.

[NVScouter]

I have both and the shorter Handi rifle is my favorite.

I'm going to run more black through the BC and see if my opinion changes. It's no sharps by a long shot.

[Bohica793]

It's no sharps by a long shot.

And at 10-12% of the price of a Sharps, I do not expect it to be. I do, however, expect it to be a good starting platform for entering the 45-70 world up to 500-600 yards.

[**oneshot**]

Awesome day at the range, especially with that factory trigger. When my buddy bought his and I shot it, I thought the safety was on trying to pull that trigger.
By the way, He had to move the ramp all the way up to get on target at 100. That is fixed now.

Nice shooting!!!!!

[seekersoftheredmist]

Now to feed it some HOLY BLACK!

[tacklebury]

My BC will shoot a 6" group at 300 yards with the factory Williams receiver sight and factory post using a variety of J-word bullets and I regularly have produced MOA or less groups at 100 yards. The 22" goes closer to 2" groups at 100 yards. I have still been working to get cast to work consistently, but have 3 new sets of loads to test with it. I recently slugged it and started sizing better. I need .459 or .460 bullets to really get fully seated in the rifling. I'm going to do a de-copper job on it before the next outing with Sweets or something and make sure the copper fouling is out.

[John Allen]

Those buffalo classics are pretty neat. I was thinking if grabbing one myself.

[tacklebury]

I should add that I've also throated mine now. I rented the reamer at GBO and took it out about 1/4" longer than SAMMI spec so I could fit longer bullets. It's been done to both of my .45-70's and did seem to make a very slight improvement. Basically just gave me a chance to try out up to 500 pointy ones. ;)

[NVScouter]

And at 10-12% of the price of a Sharps, I do not expect it to be. I do, however, expect it to be a good starting platform for entering the 45-70 world up to 500-600 yards.

I was talking over all feel of the rifle. Plus the stock rear site I dont care for. Going to add another site soon. I even put a 2.5-7X on my BC to try out...meh. Not dogging the BC since I have one but it doesnt feel like a buffalo gun, or a varmint gun, or a sporting rifle...its odd. Light reciever and all barrel.

My BC cost me about $370 and many Italian clones start around $900 with C.Sharps going for $900-1500 used. What Sharps are you looking for in the $3500-4000 range?

[Bohica793]

My BC cost me about $370 and many Italian clones start around $900 with C.Sharps going for $900-1500 used. What Sharps are you looking for in the $3500-4000 range?

I'm seeing new BCs around $350 compared to new Sharps and C Sharps at $2000-3000. Not a math major, so forgive me if the percentages are off some. The point is I am not expecting the same level of craftsmanship and detail but I am expecting something to get started with that will perform acceptably.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

My limited experience with Handi rifles-
when I was 12, I was gifted a new H&R topper combo with a 30-30 barrel and a 20 gauge barrel.
it shot good. I wish I still had it, but we lived in PA and the family moved to MT & I was told it wasn't good 'nough for out west :roll:
Then I bought a 7mm-08 a couple years ago, its been nothing but a PIA to shoot cast and took some work to get it
to shoot jwords acceptable, not great, but acceptable, Then I got a 25-06. It had to go back to the factory to
get a barrel that fit half way decent. I made it shoot j-words fairly well. it has since left the stable.
Now, the BC, is a much better fit and finish then the 2 Handi rifles and the first outing shows much more promise than the other 2.
However- I have read over and over, that the Handis chambered in a rimmed cartridge are usually way easier to deal with than rimless chamberings.
I have an itch to get a 357 magnum Handi, and a bunch of 307 Win brass and build a rimmed 358 Winchester Handi rifle :)
Yeah, I like single shots, if I wanted cheap and dependable out of the box bolt gun, I'd buy a cheap Savage 110, but what fun would that be? :mrgreen:

[NVScouter]

I'm seeing new BCs around $350 compared to new Sharps and C Sharps at $2000-3000. Not a math major, so forgive me if the percentages are off some. The point is I am not expecting the same level of craftsmanship and detail but I am expecting something to get started with that will perform acceptably.

There is a C.Sharps 50-70 here for sale $800. When I called C.Sharps (nice folks!) about an offer price I also looked into new. You get in the door new about $1400 and the sky is the limit from there. The reason I brought it up was my 45-70 Handi rifle feels like a rifle. Balances great, carries well, and shoots slightly under an inch at 100y and really thumps what it gets pointed at. The longer barrel and BC stock give it totally different feel.

My BC's overall fit and finish was poor. The "case hardening" was junk with plenty of gaps, the plastic spacer offcenter, and the buttplate oversized from the stock. Trigger is rough to say the least. The wood itself was pretty darn nice. I also noticed the BC's rifling is shallower than my Handi rifles. Worth the extra $150 over a handi? I say no, could have sent off my Handi for the longer barrel for $115.

[bigted]

so those prices at C Sharps have gotten to be for a '75' model ... NOT the popular '74' model that everybody see's in their minds eye when thinking about the sharps rifle..

still n all a 50-70 even in a '75 seems like a super price at $800.00 out the door ... and if you are interested in a '75 sharps and this one is in good shape ... I would leap all over it ... just sayin!

don't know anything about the BC rifle but do about the Shiloh's and the C Sharps and to say that a rifle from either one would push $4000.00 is never a sneeze in the wind. I see them all the time at or near this price ... they ARE an ART form tho. perfection in wood n metal. those folks really do have craftsmen working on these rifles and for that once inna lifetime rifle ... either would be in the running for an un paralleled and genuine one of a kind rifle of the utmost craftsmanship and quality.

price ways they are in the same economic range that the original article of Sharps were in back in the day when they rollrd em off the showroom floor. seems like a retirement now to spend so much on a rifle but ... in the economy back in the early 1870's you will notice that a run of the mill rifle cost $35.00 and a rifle with all the bells n whistles would run the cost of $100.00 so when you think about what the average wage was then for a working stiff ... they have always been a "once inna lifetime" rifle. and to think that there were several buff hunters that had 3 and 4 of these high priced rifles.

OK nough of my soap box doin's. now to return you to your regular programing schedule.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

If anybody wants to buy a C Sharps, I can babysit it for you for a while-
'bout a 3 hour drive from here :)

I talked to them a few weeks ago when looking for brass, they where out, but nice folks

[Bohica793]

If anybody wants to buy a C Sharps, I can babysit it for you for a while-
'bout a 3 hour drive from here :)

What a guy...

[taco650]

IMHO, the Sharps is one of the coolest looking guns ever. I'll probably never be able to afford one and I'm really too practical to spend the $$$ for something that I'd like to use deer hunting in the rain. The 45-70 Handi will be just fine for that and I'll still get to throw big lead out of a single shot at some unsuspecting whitetail or hog. If I ever move back to the Pacific Northwest, it will work fine for elk too.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

taco650, that is the exact reason I got the BC. Sharps envy will likely never be satisfied

[tacklebury]

Me three. I've got a 10 barrel multi-receiver system for the prices they ask for one Sharps. Lol.

[bigted]

so I suggest that you fella's ... [even tho I fully understand your points]... never set around a campfire and fondle a '74 Sharps rifle. it will steal yer soul.

as for cheaper priced rifles to drag thru the pucker brush ... I agree that it is a bit better to scratch a 300 dollar rifle on that branch rather then a 3000 dollar rifle. I know ive been tempted to try a BC rifle and I DO have the TC system with 2 barrels for it so far. I love it for the occasions I use it for so I do understand the affection for them.

I fondly remember my first shotgun ... an H&R 12 gauge ... hummer kicked the livin crud outta me. dad pounded the buttstock hole full of lead and then I could ... as a 14 year old kid ... shoot and hit any flying duck or grouse I aim the thing at. I cant for the life of me remember what happened to that shotgun ... I purchased it out of a summers haying proceeds ... wish I had it now as my grandson would like to use one like it.

I am tickled that you have found joy in your Buff Classic. your experiences with it are no refundable and set in your life forever ... enjoy!

[tacklebury]

I would love one, don't get me wrong. I'd have to save for three years and do no loading or hunting to save that much, and that I couldn't do. ;)

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

nuttin going on today, so I took down the Buff and did the trigger on it- wowzer what a difference!
Not sure where it started all I know is my trigger gauge stopped at 9 pounds and it took a bit more
to make it go off before :holysheep
Now, a very nice, clean & crisp 3-1/4 pounds :mrgreen:
Cant wait for the next range day

[tacklebury]

Nice. 8) I'm going to have to do mine some day, but mine isn't too bad now. Only about 4.5 lbs.

[taco650]

nuttin going on today, so I took down the Buff and did the trigger on it- wowzer what a difference!
Not sure where it started all I know is my trigger gauge stopped at 9 pounds and it took a bit more
to make it go off before :holysheep
Now, a very nice, clean & crisp 3-1/4 pounds :mrgreen:
Cant wait for the next range day

Was it difficult? My brother had a Topper 12 gauge when we were in high school. Pretty hard pull on that beast.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Was it difficult? My brother had a Topper 12 gauge when we were in high school. Pretty hard pull on that beast.
The first one you do is very frustrating. Each one gets easier. This was my third one and had no issues this time. Takes some time
as they are kind of weird to assemble and dis-assemble. There is a site called "perklo" or some such that has pretty good instructions and it is linked in the
faq in the H&R rifle forum on Graybeard outdoors. You do NOT need to take the thing apart as far as he does. You can take out the trigger group (2 pins)
and the hammer pin, and get the hammer out, giving access to both pieces of the sear engagement. Unless you need to polish up a bunch of rough stuff in the other pieces
you can leave the striker, barrel latch etc in the action.

[John Boy]

If one thinks the 45-70 H&R BC is champ t 50 & 100yds ... load it with a 535gr Creedmoor and 68grs of FFg BP. Then crank the sights up to about 235 MOA at 1000yds. That wet warm feeling between your legs is not sweat when you see the accuracy!

[dagger dog]

The main thing on the trigger group assembly, is having the correct slave pins they save a bunch of time.

My BC's trigger came out of the box at 5# and has worked in a little lighter, the let off was great out of the box no creep what so ever.

Haven't been able to shoot mine much, due to eye problems with my master eye, but I'm dying to try my Lyman 457-125 mold, I'm expecting them to drop about 515-520 with my alloy ,air cooled stick on weights about 8 BHN.

I installed the low end Pedersoli medium Creedmore, which I hope will take me out to 200-300 yds with the Lyman 17 A front sight and the Shaver reticules.

Has any one used the Lee 457 500 3R mold just wondering how it shoots out of the BC.

Jim, you'll have a hoot with yours, you have to try some BP in it and make a set of setting cross sticks, it shoots way more comfortable with the sticks and a stool than it does off a bench with bags.

I forgot to mention I use a LimbSaver slip on recoil pad to keep the transfer of that case coloring from the metal butt plate to your shoulder !

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

John Boy
I full intend to shoot some black in this critter. :)

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

As dagger dog said, take the time to make the slave pins, they are a life saver

[taco650]

As dagger dog said, take the time to make the slave pins, they are a life saver

Slave pins??? Guess I need an education tonight!

[tacklebury]

This is Perklo's website link. If you click on projects. click that you accept his negligence statement, then click on trigger work Part 1 then Part 2. Should be pretty clear. 8)

[taco650]

This is Perklo's website link. If you click on projects. click that you accept his negligence statement, then click on trigger work Part 1 then Part 2. Should be pretty clear. 8)

Where???

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Here ya go Taco

http://perkloafm.com/downloads.html

[dagger dog]

Slave pins??? Guess I need an education tonight!


They can be made of wood, plastic, or other materials other than steel, they just need to be the correct diameter and length, I've even used pipe cleaners in some situations.

[taco650]

Here ya go Taco

http://perkloafm.com/downloads.html

Thank you sir!