Are You Held Hostage.

[Hickory]

I own a lot of things, I have worked hard for what I have and enjoy my life as it is.
I have family living close by and far away.

I was thinking last night that if the SHTF, what would I do?
Could I leave it all behind, and become a refugee in Canada or some other place, or just send my family ahead and stay behind to "protect" the homestead and all that I have?

Of everyone in the family, I am the least likely to survive being a refugee without the medicine I now take. Of course this is the thinking of someone held hostage to medicine and his stuff.

I think I'd get my family out of the country and send them as much money as possible, and hope I'd survive the onslaught of a tyrannical government.

Just sort of thinking out loud, with more to think about.
Might be a good idea to formulate a couple of different plans for backup.

[Wayne Smith]

It very much depends on age and condition. We are 60+, our kids are out and on their own, and we don't make decisions for them any more. We only have to take care of ourselves.

As to things- They all belong to God, I'm just the current custodian. Most of my life I have lived within one or another of the hypothetical 'kill zones', where nothing will survive a nuclear strike. Emotionally I have never expected that I would have an opportunity to practice one or another of the survival schemes, so I never have.

Sorry, it is just not an issue for me.

[captaint]

Yeah, Wayne, I'm kinda in the same boat you're in. I, long ago, decided not to get worked up over survival issues. I the SHTF, nothing in terms of plans are going to work for long anyway. Maybe I'm just a pessimist. Mike

[btroj]

Mike, not a pessimist at all. I call it realism.

If things really get that bad how are folks going to get to Canada? Canada isn't gonna welcome millions with open arms.

I just don't have a prepper mentality at all.

Yep, I'm also pretty much in line with Wayne. If it happens I'm ready.

[oldred]

For my part if it ever comes to nuclear war I would want the first bomb to land right on top of my head but for my Son and Daughter it's another story. I guess we can speculate all we want but until the S-actually does-HTF we won't have a clue as to what form it will take so it's impossible to know how we would react, speculation becomes meaningless.

[jakec]

some of the prepper stuff cracks me up. i have a little stash of various stuff but nothing major. i dont think your gonna need years worth of supplies and if you had it you couldnt hold of the masses long anyway.

[WILCO]

I own a lot of things, I have worked hard for what I have and enjoy my life as it is.

Hickory,

That's exactly like Jack Hinson. His story is but one of thousands from the pages of history. One can plan for anything, but ultimately, events greater than you will dictate your course of action.

[Hickory]

some of the prepper stuff cracks me up.

I'll be prepared, you can be cracked up.:drinks:

[oldred]

some of the prepper stuff cracks me up. i have a little stash of various stuff but nothing major. i dont think your gonna need years worth of supplies and if you had it you couldnt hold of the masses long anyway.



I agree, I have heard several people brag "that if things get bad enough I am well armed and I know how hunt and live off the land" but what these people don't realize is that if it comes to that the hunting lands would be swarming with hunters (and worse, people who aren't really hunters) and those who survive the first onslaught of panicked foragers would find nothing left to hunt! after a few days people would be shooting even small birds since no game would be left!

[jakec]

I'll be prepared, you can be cracked up.:drinks:

oh make no mistake im prepared. i consider that something every rational person does. when i say "prepper" i mean the people that they make those tv shows about not general preparedness.

[ShooterAZ]

I'm just gonna wait and see what plays out, then make decisions based on what actually happens. I'm not going to lose any sleep over it right now.

[btroj]

What, precisely, does it mean when SHTF?

Are we talking riots in the streets? Nuclear war? Foreign invasion? Dictatorial takeover of government?

Wouldn't they all require different sorts of preparation?

[WILCO]

What, precisely, does it mean when SHTF?

Are we talking riots in the streets? Nuclear war? Foreign invasion? Dictatorial takeover of government?

Wouldn't they all require different sorts of preparation?

One can never plan for everything. It's every man's duty to have at least the basics for a limited amount of time. Outside of that, it's a toss up.

[beezapilot]

I used to think about "surviving" "after" something. I'm in my mid 50's, much slower than I was in the military, eyesight and reflexes showing the passing years... if it comes to an honest to badness fire-fight with a 20 something who know his business... well, did you see the Superbowl?

[dragon813gt]

I have enough faith in humanity that I don't think it's going to get that bad. Unless there is a large meteor impact, super volcano eruption or nuclear war. Anything that can put the world into a nuclear winter, just kill me.

Can things get real bad, absolutely. Will I stand my ground and fight a tyrannical government if it comes to it. You bet your *** I will because I will die a free man. I am not leaving. My roots don't run as deep as a lot of others as I am a third generation American. My ancestors fled an oppressive regime for freedom in America. Every time I think about my Great Grandfather signing the book at Ellis Island to become an American citizen my resolve is strengthened. Maybe it's because my family is so new to the country that we haven't become complacent yet. I have no ties to the old countries my family came from. I am 100% American and will die here. Hopefully peacefully while surrounded by loved ones.

[Hickory]

What, precisely, does it mean when SHTF?

Are we talking riots in the streets? Nuclear war? Foreign invasion? Dictatorial takeover of government?

Wouldn't they all require different sorts of preparation?

Any or all of the above, plus what ever else you can come up with.

[Clay M]

I don't worry about it. I figure I have a about ten or fifteen years left before I have to deal with either cancer or Alzheimer's. My parents had both and died at 70.Whatever comes ,comes. God is in control, and I am just enjoying the time I have.

[bhn22]

Hey! Let's go to Mexico!

They owe us.

I see the "tank the thread" fairy has visited.

[Beerd]

and the climate is a lot nicer than Canada this time of year.
..

[schutzen]

Am I a prepper, hmmm maybe. Do I believe I can survive a nuclear war? No, I live 15 air miles form a nuclear fuel plant (reactor fuel ). Do I believe in a Zombie Apocalypse, not no but Hell No! What are these people smoking?

Now to what I do believe. Can a storm or tornado move through my area and put me in a semi-survival mode? Yes, it has already happened. 2009 we were without power for 19 days after an ice storm moved through dropping trees and power lines. We survived quite well because we had a few basic preparations. What do I consider preparations?
1) Back up heating system - I use vent less gas logs and an underground propane tank.
2) Back up electrical supply - I use two dual fuel generators. Each will run on gas or propane. One is for the house the other for the well
3) Back up water supply - I use a deep well and have a generator to supply it, but I also have a shallow well on the place that I keep maintained. For it I
have a 12V DC water pump salvaged form an old camper and for worst case scenario a dipping bucket.
4) Food supply - We try to keep 90 day supply of canned goods in the pantry. Plus I keep the freezer well stocked with meat.
5) Medical - We keep a well stocked 1st aid kit in the house. Additional, each vehicle has a small supplemental kit that stays in the vehicle.
6) Transportation - The wife and I both have a vehicle. I keep an older truck for use on the farm and I have a tractor for farming. I keep all the vehicles in
good working order and when the fuel tank reaches 1/2 it is filled. I stock oil, lubricants and filters in the shop for all. I do have the ability to store fuel
on site, but I keep it limited. On site fuel seems to invite thieves in this area. I limit my fuel supply to 50 gallons of diesel and 10 gallons of gasoline.
7) Security - I use fences and natural barriers to limit access to the house/shop/barn area. I keep an outside dog for early warning. I also have an
electronic alert signal on the lane to announce incoming vehicles. This is a bullet casting forum board, so you should assume I have the tools to defend
us.
8) And most importantly, my wife and I both have the mind set to adapt, make do, and overcome adversity.

Are we preppers? No, we grew up on farms miles from town and we live on a farm. We live with the same attitudes of the rural America we grew up in. We have updated and improved our live style, but we have the same attitudes of ancestors.

A wise man once said, "Those who fail to study history are condemned to make the mistakes of the past again" (This is probably not the exact quote, but the idea is the same.) We need to learn from our parents, grandparents, great-grandparents and the rest of history. It makes life easier.

[HarryT]

Number one survival skill: cannibalism.

[Clay M]

Number one survival skill: cannibalism.

Do you prefer dark or light meat?:wink:

[ole 5 hole group]

Using the words "hope I'd survive the onslaught of a tyrannical government" is foreign to me. I don't think that will ever happen in the near future, as most serving in the Armed Forces and our Federal/State and Local police departments would never follow orders to harm "us" citizens. After all, they are our neighbors, sons, daughters, brothers and sisters raised somewhat in the same manner as most of us - they will stand tall shoulder to shoulder with us, the average citizen against any type of tyranny. Ruby Ridge is a great example - A few "misguided" FBI agents agreed to execute an illegal "rules of engagement" plan but none of the other responding "SWAT" teams wanted any part of it.

Now, as far as a cataclysmic event taking place, such as our power grids going down for 8 months to 2 years – now that will be a fine how do you do. For those of us living here in the winter frozen wastelands it would get a little dicey, as once the gasoline/diesel supplies run out - life would get a little rough in -10 to -30 degree weather with 15mph wind.

I think some of us would travel south at the onset while fuel supplies were still available and wait it out with family. If one doesn’t have family I’m pretty sure most people in the warmer climates would take you in, if you pulled your own weight in day to day activities.

I’m somewhat of a 90 day prepper, as if the interruption in daily life lasts more than 90 days, I’m basically SOL if I didn’t adjust somehow in that time period to that event lasting more than 3 months. I really don’t worry about such events because the citizens of this great country have always solved whatever problems that cropped up in spite of government incompetency.

[shdwlkr]

Well I saw the map of nuclear targets that China has for America and I am living in one of them so not much to worry about either the blast kills you or you survive, not sure what it will be like but having read and watched what it was like for the last place that a nuclear bomb was dropped on life does change.

You can worry yourself to death about SHTF issues but the bottom line is prepare as best you can, decide if you are going to hunker down where you are or bug out, then figure out with your health, family, etc issues how to accomplish it. Food and water will be interesting as how do you know it is safe to eat and drink? Can you store these for say 5 years of your needs?

Water will be the biggest issue even before food or shelter and from where I am we are not in a huge surplus now, so what will it be like in a SHTF situation?

Many things depend on where you are right now today. For me I am in west, actually a desert and a target for the China or even Russia or maybe Iran we have enough countries that now feel we are not able to defend our country that one of them is going to try one day to see just how correct their thinking is. Then we will all know what is next for us.

Maybe we will burn everything we can't take with us, think scorched earth, pretty hard to move an army across this kind of terrain. Maybe we will stand and fight and if so many will be wounded, killed, captured in the end there will be very few to see the end. My first boss was a WWII veteran and he went all the way across Europe. He started with a full company only 5 saw Berlin. If you think in a fire fight you are going to be the one standing maybe then again maybe not. I liked a military friend concept if it is your turn to die you will, if it is your turn to be wounded it is going to happen, if it is your turn to live to fight another day it will happen, so there is no sense in being afraid as it has already been decided so get out there and fight.

[Hickory]

If you think in a fire fight you are going to be the one standing maybe then again maybe not.

I have not thought in any terms of any kind of shooting or fighting, just surviving.

[Jim Flinchbaugh]

Planning on "running" if the SHTF, is futile at best. You'll only get as far as your fuel tank will allow.
I'd rather stay home where my lead and powder is. You cant save up fuel anymore either as
it will go bad in storage. Far as "stuff" is concerned I agree with the others,
its only on loan with us being the caretakers

[snowwolfe]

If the SHTF I would power up the generator and turn on the TV and watch Duck Dynasty reruns recorded on the DVR.
Seriously, I don't consider myself much of a survivalist but besides the ammo and components I do keep a 25 pound bag of pinto beans and another of rice as back up supplies. I figure with what we have in the house and freezer along with the beans and rice we could easily last 90 days.

[runfiverun]

this is a pretty realistic discussion so far.

anyway my take on the matter is, could we make it through one winter?
if something were to happen in say November could we make it to spring and then hold off the multitudes of city folk heading our direction to take what little we would have left.

[Clay M]

this is a pretty realistic discussion so far.

anyway my take on the matter is, could we make it through one winter?
if something were to happen in say November could we make it to spring and then hold off the multitudes of city folk heading our direction to take what little we would have left.

There you go, and a lot would kill you for a can of beans.

[Freightman]

I have enough to be concerned about with today can't worry about tomorrow as it isn't here yet and not promised anyhow. Can't worry about yesterday as nothing I do will bring it back, and today well there is something I can do about it I can stop worrying about tomorrow. :drinks:

[geargnasher]

I prepare for what I think is realistic: 2-3 days without power, well going out and not being able to fix it for a month or more, some stupidity with weather, natural disaster, terrorist attacks, etc. causing a panic that wipes out store shelves in an afternoon and takes a month or more to fully recover, losing my job and being unemployed for a few months, things along those lines. In those sorts of scenarios, people tend to pool together and help each other out, nothing brings a neighborhood together like a small disaster. When it falls apart is when everybody starts to run out of whatever essential items they pooled and panic sets in. People do funny things when the chips are down.

Anything that destroys infrastructure or the established "rule of law" is going to be a different matter entirely, a matter for which in reality almost no one is truly prepared to handle for more than a few days. In that case, you have your guns, somewhere to be or go to, and a few trusted friends. What else can you do? Historically, things always recover. We've had nuclear war on a small scale, massive plagues, several world wars, all sorts of bad stuff. Guess what? We're still here. Maybe not prospering everywhere, but people get by in the worst of times. So no, I don't freak out over it. What I freak out over is the loss of freedom in my country because it cramps my style, which is to produce and be rewarded accordingly. The blanket of socialism is like living in a cage to a free man. The mindset of independence and responsibility has all but been replaced with dependence, entitlement, and the expectation of protection/security. But nothing I could ever prepare adequately for is going to happen overnight. If it does, I likely won't wake up anyway.

Gear

[richhodg66]

Ever read The Road, by Cormac McCarthy? Best book I ever read and it really did get me to thinking. In a bad, extended breakdown situation, natural selection will bring the worst to float to the top. It will be those with no morals who are willing to prey on others early on to survive longest.

I personally don't want to live like that and will defend myself and mine as best I can, but I figure, knowing who I am that I'll go down swinging pretty early on if that happens so long term survival planning is probably moot.

That being said, it's prudent for a lot of reasons to have some supplies layed in. You could lose your job, have unexpected difficulties, be snowed in, whatever and having some food and other gear to help though it makes sense. When I was young and waiting to get in the Army, I held a job which sucked but did have me driving all over the place to interact with customers. I remember one who was an elderly lady who lived alone out in the country. We got to talking about an ice storm the previous Winter (or what passes for one in S.C.) and she remarked as how she'd have been in a bad way if she hadn't canned a bunch of vegetables from her garden and had one of her grandkids lay in a supply of firewood for her. She'd have never thought of herself a a survivalist, it's just the way folks from her generation, particularly rural folks, thought and lived.

[btroj]

I prepare for what I think is realistic: 2-3 days without power, well going out and not being able to fix it for a month or more, some stupidity with weather, natural disaster, terrorist attacks, etc. causing a panic that wipes out store shelves in an afternoon and takes a month or more to fully recover, losing my job and being unemployed for a few months, things along those lines. In those sorts of scenarios, people tend to pool together and help each other out, nothing brings a neighborhood together like a small disaster. When it falls apart is when everybody starts to run out of whatever essential items they pooled and panic sets in. People do funny things when the chips are down.

Anything that destroys infrastructure or the established "rule of law" is going to be a different matter entirely, a matter for which in reality almost no one is truly prepared to handle for more than a few days. In that case, you have your guns, somewhere to be or go to, and a few trusted friends. What else can you do? Historically, things always recover. We've had nuclear war on a small scale, massive plagues, several world wars, all sorts of bad stuff. Guess what? We're still here. Maybe not prospering everywhere, but people get by in the worst of times. So no, I don't freak out over it. What I freak out over is the loss of freedom in my country because it cramps my style, which is to produce and be rewarded accordingly. The blanket of socialism is like living in a cage to a free man. The mindset of independence and responsibility has all but been replaced with dependence, entitlement, and the expectation of protection/security. But nothing I could ever prepare adequately for is going to happen overnight. If it does, I likely won't wake up anyway.

Gear

Well stated.

[Char-Gar]

Nobody is going to get out of this life alive and we can't take our stuff with us when we go.

All that does matter is how we live the days or years we have left. I am not going to live them in fear that something bad is going to happen and I am going to have to run or protect my stuff. I have dealt with the good and bad in life as long as I have been alive. I have weathered all sorts of the bad stuff that life can throw at you. I will deal with any future bad stuff, just like I have with the bad stuff in the past. I will jump that snake when it crawls across my path.

I have lived down here in hurricane land most of my life and I am well prepared to weather a week long power outage and no potable water for the same period of time. That goes with the turf down here "on the border by the sea". I don't consider that SHTF stuff, just part of life.

My No. 1 survival tool is my faith. I am not afraid to die. For those who die in the faith, the day we die will be the best day of our life.

[felix]

Looks like Ian and Brad have it down pat. ... felix

[MBTcustom]

I prepare for what I think is realistic: 2-3 days without power, well going out and not being able to fix it for a month or more, some stupidity with weather, natural disaster, terrorist attacks, etc. causing a panic that wipes out store shelves in an afternoon and takes a month or more to fully recover, losing my job and being unemployed for a few months, things along those lines. In those sorts of scenarios, people tend to pool together and help each other out, nothing brings a neighborhood together like a small disaster. When it falls apart is when everybody starts to run out of whatever essential items they pooled and panic sets in. People do funny things when the chips are down.

Anything that destroys infrastructure or the established "rule of law" is going to be a different matter entirely, a matter for which in reality almost no one is truly prepared to handle for more than a few days. In that case, you have your guns, somewhere to be or go to, and a few trusted friends. What else can you do? Historically, things always recover. We've had nuclear war on a small scale, massive plagues, several world wars, all sorts of bad stuff. Guess what? We're still here. Maybe not prospering everywhere, but people get by in the worst of times. So no, I don't freak out over it. What I freak out over is the loss of freedom in my country because it cramps my style, which is to produce and be rewarded accordingly. The blanket of socialism is like living in a cage to a free man. The mindset of independence and responsibility has all but been replaced with dependence, entitlement, and the expectation of protection/security. But nothing I could ever prepare adequately for is going to happen overnight. If it does, I likely won't wake up anyway.

Gear

Lots of wisdom in this post. Well said!

[Jailer]

I prepare for what I think is realistic: 2-3 days without power, well going out and not being able to fix it for a month or more, some stupidity with weather, natural disaster, terrorist attacks, etc. causing a panic that wipes out store shelves in an afternoon and takes a month or more to fully recover, losing my job and being unemployed for a few months, things along those lines. In those sorts of scenarios, people tend to pool together and help each other out, nothing brings a neighborhood together like a small disaster. When it falls apart is when everybody starts to run out of whatever essential items they pooled and panic sets in. People do funny things when the chips are down.

Anything that destroys infrastructure or the established "rule of law" is going to be a different matter entirely, a matter for which in reality almost no one is truly prepared to handle for more than a few days. In that case, you have your guns, somewhere to be or go to, and a few trusted friends. What else can you do? Historically, things always recover. We've had nuclear war on a small scale, massive plagues, several world wars, all sorts of bad stuff. Guess what? We're still here. Maybe not prospering everywhere, but people get by in the worst of times. So no, I don't freak out over it. What I freak out over is the loss of freedom in my country because it cramps my style, which is to produce and be rewarded accordingly. The blanket of socialism is like living in a cage to a free man. The mindset of independence and responsibility has all but been replaced with dependence, entitlement, and the expectation of protection/security. But nothing I could ever prepare adequately for is going to happen overnight. If it does, I likely won't wake up anyway.

Gear


Well stated.


Looks like Ian and Brad have it down pat. ... felix

Gear nailed it.

It cracks me up the number of people that call themselves preppers or say they are ready for "SHTF" that would pee their pants if the power was out for more than a week.

If you live a frugal, self reliant, self sufficient lifestyle every day you already have the tools in your toolbox that you need to survive most any situation.

[Clay M]

I can pretty much live off the land. Have done it before, but in the case of a collapse the deer, turkey and squirrels will be annihilated in a short period of time. I really don't worry about it cause there isn't anything I can do except what I am already doing.

[popper]

What gear says. Pretty much try to survive any local problem, protect my 'castle' and attempt to keep the gov. from stealing everything. Yes, we all go sometime but nobody with a working brain says it's gonna be fun.

[btroj]

Let's see, if nuclear war breaks out I am less than 3 miles from Stratcom headquarters. I don't think I will survive.

No matter what the situation the most valuable thing lies between your ears. Use it, it will keep you and your family alive.

Char-gar also makes a very valid point. We can't take things with us and we aren't gonna live forever. Make sure you live life to its fullest and always think about what lies beyond the grave.

[Whiterabbit]

I used to think about "surviving" "after" something. I'm in my mid 50's, much slower than I was in the military, eyesight and reflexes showing the passing years... if it comes to an honest to badness fire-fight with a 20 something who know his business... well, did you see the Superbowl?

yep, and that's why we bowled over enemy forces in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan (to name only three). Because the only factors involved are your skill and his.

[Clay M]

Let's see, if nuclear war breaks out I am less than 3 miles from Stratcom headquarters. I don't think I will survive.

No matter what the situation the most valuable thing lies between your ears. Use it, it will keep you and your family alive.

Char-gar also makes a very valid point. We can't take things with us and we aren't gonna live forever. Make sure you live life to its fullest and always think about what lies beyond the grave.

I am also in the fallout zone of a major military base. I find kids balloons on my land all the time from that city. If there is a hit I am toast. Why worry? It won't change anything. I am here to stay,and I will die on this land.

[destrux]

I agree, I have heard several people brag "that if things get bad enough I am well armed and I know how hunt and live off the land" but what these people don't realize is that if it comes to that the hunting lands would be swarming with hunters (and worse, people who aren't really hunters) and those who survive the first onslaught of panicked foragers would find nothing left to hunt! after a few days people would be shooting even small birds since no game would be left!

There is a lot more in the woods to eat than the stuff that walks around. If you know what you're doing, you can eat over about 10% of the plant life you see when you walk outside. That's a LOT of food and it's food that most people don't have a clue about, even if they have a book on edible plants. Better yet, about half of the stuff tastes as good or better than store bought vegetables and greens.

I'm not saying that it's realistic to expect to survive through a massive global scale disaster, but I'd hate to be one of those people who dies from a disaster that only disrupts things for a few weeks.

[762 shooter]

Some poop hitting scenarios are beyond survival. Asteroid hit, nuclear war, pandemic, global warming .

Some you have to be lucky. Polar caps reversing, global EMP, alien invasion, continental shape shifting.

Some it's a matter of how long. No food, roving bands of cannibals, armed HOA's, disintegration of infrastructure.

Some you can plan for. No electricity for two weeks, no food for two weeks, hurricanes, no TV.

Some things are just common sense. Don't have to go to the grocery store every day to eat, some water, toilet facilities not based on water flow, reloading components on hand.

I plan to stay where I am for 99% of the probable things that could happen. The other 1% I'll leave for awhile then come back.

You have to pick your battles. If you can't make it for a week, there is no need worrying about surviving for years.

If you think being prepared on some level is silly, well good luck with that.

762

[Clay M]

Water,and salt are two things you won't last long without. The people in the city think water comes from the municipal supplies or the grocery store.

[dbosman]

From what I read, the cartels quite often open up job slots.


Hey! Let's go to Mexico!

[geargnasher]

Gear nailed it.

It cracks me up the number of people that call themselves preppers or say they are ready for "SHTF" that would pee their pants if the power was out for more than a week.

If you live a frugal, self reliant, self sufficient lifestyle every day you already have the tools in your toolbox that you need to survive most any situation.

Most "preppers" fall into the mall-ninja category the way I see it. Pretty useless. Some really have it together, though, as a way of being (Mormons, for example). Most of the self-actualized people I know have a little extra of most necessities stuck back, it's just sensible and most would never consider themselves "preppers". The really far-out, anarchist-type people are the worst, they're too silly to realize just how bad the misery and suffering is when basic civilization breaks down and law/order goes with it. Ask a veteran US soldier who's been in Iraq about that, they'll tell you the real truth about how great it is for a people when everything breaks down. The only people who benefit from or prosper in that situation are the sort that Richdog mentioned. Those that think they want the government (at any level) to collapse have very questionable motivations in my estimation, or are, like I already said, just silly.


It seems pretty obvious to me to assess the most probable disaster scenarios for the area in which you live and make reasonable preparations for food, clothing, shelter, money, security, etc. for the duration. If that means stuck all all winter without supplies, I'd think about stocking up on heating fuel, meds, food, and entertainment. If it means a violent riot outside your apartment and possible need to "bug out" for a few days or weeks, I'd have a couple of solid options available at all times. It isn't difficult to predict weather-related worse-case scenarios in a given area. Neither is it difficult to predict infrastructure issues in a given area, including law-enforcement limitations, highway/bridge reliability, or supply issues in your area. I can't fathom the folks who live in parts of Alaska who would starve or freeze if they didn't get their weekly truck shipments. Maybe they're gov dependents, IDK. Personally, I intend to survive any foreseeable disaster in relative comfort, and make those preparations. I have seen shelves go bare in hours, all water bought up, fuel supply shut down, roads blocked off, and the skies of DFW empty. All on a sunny fall day when everything seemed wonderful. And the event that changed it so suddenly happened seven states away from me and affected an area smaller than the property I own. A lot of people payed for the gift of knowledge about what COULD happen with their lives. Just don't learn the wrong lesson from that knowledge.

Attempting to or claiming you are prepared for anything beyond that is impossible for the average person.

So no, I'm not "held hostage" by fears or superstitions or much of anything else except the IRS, school district, and DMV, but I manage to make parole every year. I can easily hold out through any situation I can foresee, for the time I think I might need to, at least long enough to re-assess the situation.

I'm reminded of something funny said about a local "character" here that I knew pretty well: "Yup, if it gets drastic ol' Doug will be holed up for the duration in his secret underground bunker, surrounded by crates of rifles and ammunition stacked high, his 2-meter HAM cranked up, with a case of Pabst and one can of Vienna sausages". I think that describes the lack of thought so often associated with mainstream prepping pretty well.

Gear

[Harter66]

I talked to a guy that is completely gunho ,I mean drums of food stocks laid in clan of 20 ,2 Dr, 6 snipers , breeding selections for his grandkids.......

After I talked to him a while I realized that short of a few minor things like steel shutters I'm not that bad off. There's a solid month of groceries before we get into the beans and rice. Nevermind I'm out in the boonies but the GIs will be here in hours as there's Army depot on 2 sides. I don't think in my area that marauding hordes will be the issue but the jack boots.

[btroj]

But Gear, what about zombies?

I don't know any preppers. We tend to keep on hand enough food to last a bit. Do I have large stockpiles? Nope. Then again we have a mindset that would let us get thru a few days.

For us heating would be a big issue, I don't know of a way to stockpile natural gas!

Reminds me of a winter many years a go when we had a major early snowstorm. Some had no power for up to a week. The older people often did better, they threw more blankets on the bed and ate steaks that were going bad anyway, the grills till worked fine. What they had was the mindset that allowed them to look at what they DID have and use it to the best of their ability. The younger people couldn't think outside the box and were miserable.

[762 shooter]

My father is 90 and my mother is 86. The last ice storm they went through they ended up feeding several younger families in the neighborhood because they didn't know what to do when the power went off.

762

[starmac]

There are still quite a few people that live year round, with no electricity, running water, natural gas, phones, or INTERNET, what is those people going to do.

This country was opened up and built with no electricity, tv or internet. There are some that would go stark raving mad in a week or two, others would just deal with it.

[dragon813gt]

[COLOR="#800080"]For us heating would be a big issue, I don't know of a way to stockpile natural gas!


Not sure if you're talking permanent outage or a prolonged one. Luckily the mains pretty much never go down. Well they don't where I live and I don't know anyone that has been w/ out gas. But I still have kerosene heaters for when the power goes out. The generator uses a lot less fuel when I only have to fire it up a few times a day to keep the refrigerators and freezers cold. I can run the furnace off the generator but the kerosene heaters keep the house plenty comfortable. I purposely kept a five gallon jug stored away for five years. Burnt it this year w/ no problems. So storage isn't an issue. But the heaters are not a long term solution.

[Houndog]

I guess I'm showin my age, but what most folks call prepping MY family calls every day living! We grow,preserve and store most of our own food and have done so forever. If the electrical grid fails and stays down for awhile we just throw another log on the fire, set the kettle on the stove for cooking, set back and enjoy the peace and quiet! Water is not a problem in this area as there are many good fresh water springs nearby. I DO try to keep at least a 90 day supply of prescription drugs on hand, but my Grandmother did teach me about all kinds of medecinal plants and herbs while growing up. There are a couple of good tractors and equipment as well as a good supply of fuel for them down in the barn, but if you look out back in the pasture field you'll find a couple of GOOD Mules, harness in the barn, as well as several pieces of equipment for them. About the only SHTF situation we couldn't do anything about is we live about 75 miles from Oak Ridge National Labratory as the Crow flies. IF they get hit we MIGHT have enough time to bend over and kiss our rears goodbye!

[Love Life]

I bought an extra bag of corn chips on the way home to eat with my taco soup. I'll have some left over chips. I am ready...

[dtknowles]

I have survived a few emergencies over the years. A week without power around Christmas in Maine, a couple days without power in Florida, I evacuated for Katrina and a couple other Hurricanes in Louisiana. I had fuel for the generator and over 100 gallons of fresh water storage but still evacuated. I do have food for more than a month. In Maine we had plenty of firewood, so cooking and heating were not a problem. In Louisiana we evacuated for comfort and safety. In Katrina we had a tree down on the house with large branches right into the Master Bedroom. I came home before the power was back on to start the repairs. When disaster strikes, you keep your head and make sensible choices based on the circumstances. You do have more choices if you have made some preparations. It might me so circumstances have no good choices and no amount of prep will make a difference. In Maine when we lost power if we did not have backup wood heat and cooking we would have had to bug out, it was nice we could stay but we would have been Ok if we bugged out. We could have stayed for Katrina, we were prepared and almost stayed but we would have been miserable and it would not have stopped the damage. I don't think I would prepare to ride out widespread disaster, waste of time and resources or what I am trying to say is I would have a bug out plan to get out of the disaster zone, the toys and the house are expendable.

If the disaster zone is so large that you can't get out of it with a tank full of gas and a couple extra gas cans then I still think your best bet is to get as close to safety as you can and switch to walking or bikes before the chaos eats you up. Good intel is going to be important to find a way to safety so radio's might be critical.

Tim

[dragon813gt]

I bought an extra bag of corn chips on the way home to eat with my taco soup. I'll have some left over chips. I am ready...

This sounds like the text message I sent my friends w/ my hurricane Sandy prepping. It consisted of a few hundred rounds of ammo, a 1894C, a S&W 586, two bottles of water and a box of Krimpets. I was fully prepared for when the lights flickered twice :laugh:

[Love Life]

Prepare for a fluid situation. Chaining yourself to your supply is a foolish thing to do.

[texassako]

In a sense we are held hostage, I guess, if the world as we know it really comes to an end. We keep enough around for minor emergencies, but we would be pretty much out of luck since a family member has a health problem needing fairly constant medical care. Pretty tough to plan around an implanted pump with 3 months of medicine at most, and various other items/drugs needed daily.

[bhn22]

I was born to, and raised by a child of the Great Depression. As you might guess from that statement, I am perpetually unprepared for anything [smilie=1:. I look upon power outages, blizzards, civil unrest, tornadoes, and the like as high adventure. My kids think I'm nuts, but they also think I can do almost anything. I teach them that knowledge, and ability are the real super powers. Don't just plan for yourselves, plan for your family in case you're not there to help them.

[bhn22]

The real hostage situation in my view is our economy. I've long held the notion that the "American Dream" is just a setup for economic slavery. More specifically, cities are the setup. People have to live somewhere.

[btroj]

I don't see it as being held hostage as much as it is having to deal with the reality that we often don't have control over what comes our way.

[Love Life]

Desperation and adversity will introduce you to yourselves.

[Idaho Mule]

I bought an extra bag of corn chips on the way home to eat with my taco soup. I'll have some left over chips. I am ready... I personally prefer Frito's Chips and some good old Nalleys Chili. Of course a luke-cold beer is always good to wash it down with. JW

[Bzcraig]

What, precisely, does it mean when SHTF?

Are we talking riots in the streets? Nuclear war? Foreign invasion? Dictatorial takeover of government?

Wouldn't they all require different sorts of preparation?


That is exactly my thinking too Brad. It is impossible to be prepared for all circumstances, and that being the case, which do you prepare for. I will trust The Lord will give me the wisdom to deal with what needs to be dealt with. On top of that being near 60, each new year may change how and to what degree I will be able to execute the wisdom I will have, which changes the game again. My Dad who is a very healthy WWII Navy Vet whose mind is still sharp and whose attitude rivals teenagers, in the event of any shtf scenario, would be totally dependent on someone else except that he can still pull a trigger though he has not fired a weapon in 50+ years.

[Bzcraig]

Nobody is going to get out of this life alive and we can't take our stuff with us when we go.

All that does matter is how we live the days or years we have left. I am not going to live them in fear that something bad is going to happen and I am going to have to run or protect my stuff. I have dealt with the good and bad in life as long as I have been alive. I have weathered all sorts of the bad stuff that life can throw at you. I will deal with any future bad stuff, just like I have with the bad stuff in the past. I will jump that snake when it crawls across my path.

I have lived down here in hurricane land most of my life and I am well prepared to weather a week long power outage and no potable water for the same period of time. That goes with the turf down here "on the border by the sea". I don't consider that SHTF stuff, just part of life.

My No. 1 survival tool is my faith. I am not afraid to die. For those who die in the faith, the day we die will be the best day of our life.

Well spoken brother

[MaryB]

Small town rural america, I have a decent supply to get by for a year, fresh produce from the garden to can and the canning supplies to take care of it, years supply protein in the freezer, solar to keep the freezer going and supply power to the pellet stove for winter heat. I rotate my pellet supply but always buy extra in spring when they go on sale to make space. Have dry storage for them for the next fall. Nuke war is not in the cards, so China takes us out, we have enough air based and sub based nukes to make them glow. We haven't disarmed that far yet. We are going to see economic chaos before anything, and with that a president who will come down on us. That will be the big problem. 90 miles from the nearest big city and not many will survive it this far walking after an event.

[10x]

When the SHTF you stay where you are. You know the local area, know where the resources are, know what is available and what is not available. The folks who pack up and move will be moving into someone else's territory. Territory disputes over resources (especially life sustaining resources) do not end well.

I have lived on a subsistence level for the first 18 years of my life. One does not simply fall into that lifestyle - it takes a summer of very hard work and preparation to live for 4 or 5 months of winter when resources (food and heat) are short.

When the SHTF, the best bet is to stick where you are, keep your head down, do what you need to do to survive, assess your resources and make plans to maintain the resources that are essential to your survival.
There will be competition for resources. That competition will not be pretty or fun. Resources that keep you healthy like prescription medication may be limited.

Currently Eastern Europe is going through a SHTF event that is probably as bad as the depression in the dirty thirties. Folks are surviving - it isn't easy nor is it fun.
SHTF is not a game, nor is it romantic, nor is it fun. I knew folks that lived through SHTF times in various places in the world at various times. Many of their friends and family did not survive, and some of the folks I knew survived only by chance.

[starmac]

10x are you saying a guy can't take off with a bug out pack and make it even if he has a few seeds and a 9 mil with ammo in it. lol
The population of the US can not stand anything like the conditions of the great depression, people have changed, and too much about living has been lost to the world of starbucks, Mcdonalds and 7-11 stores. The idea of a subsistence lifestyle is mostly just a dream to those that are not already living it. Look at what happens with just a hurricane or basically any other natural disaster that is confined to a small area, even just a blackout, people have been conditioned to just sit and wait on help. Any scenario such as Katrina, that covered a large part of the country, sitting and waiting for help the first week would be a death sentence for many.

[HarryT]

Look at the turmoil this little winter storm is causing in the East. Most people only have enough provisions to last one day. The grocery store shelves are empty, there's no propane for sale, people are fighting for gas pumps. Pretty soon the power will go out and once there is no TV or computers to entertain the masses, there will be trouble.
PS: The fire chief in Columbia, SC said on the local news that the fire department did not have to respond to emergencies in this kind of weather.

[10x]

10x are you saying a guy can't take off with a bug out pack and make it even if he has a few seeds and a 9 mil with ammo in it. lol
The population of the US can not stand anything like the conditions of the great depression, people have changed, and too much about living has been lost to the world of starbucks, Mcdonalds and 7-11 stores. The idea of a subsistence lifestyle is mostly just a dream to those that are not already living it. Look at what happens with just a hurricane or basically any other natural disaster that is confined to a small area, even just a blackout, people have been conditioned to just sit and wait on help. Any scenario such as Katrina, that covered a large part of the country, sitting and waiting for help the first week would be a death sentence for many.

Without a plan and the time to grow those seeds, then preserve the food you do grow, and the skills to do so - life would be interesting, challenging, difficult, and possibly short. Locally it takes about a week for the shelves of the grocery stores to go empty. In a panic situation that may be reduced to 2 to 3 days - if folks have enough cash in pocket to purchase the goods they need. A debit card or credit card will not cut it when the electricity is off and the cash register does not work. Or when a crowd loots a store and destroys more than they take.
SHTF, your mileage may vary depending on your skills and what you have at hand, and the local resources available to you.
Just remember that where ever you go, the resources are all local to the area you are in.

[jcwit]

I also live in small town Mid-West America. Wife and I have a stock of friends who look after each other, we also have a stock of essentials needed to live comfortable for some time as do most if not all of our friends.

Frankly, I'm not going to worry about it.

Because of having a cold and the weather we haven't left the house in over a week. Put it this way, plenty of fuel, plenty of food, plenty of toilet paper. Got everything covered.

[Elkins45]

The population of the US can not stand anything like the conditions of the great depression, people have changed, and too much about living has been lost to the world of starbucks, Mcdonalds and 7-11 stores. The idea of a subsistence lifestyle is mostly just a dream to those that are not already living it.

More of a nightmare. Think about modern houses: my house doesn't have a chimney. We heat with propane, which required both a tank of propane and electricity. I have a backup and a couple of ventless heaters for when the power goes out, but that's not a long term solution. I have access to 60 acres of hardwood timber, but no way to heat with it unless I just rip up the carpet and drag in the wood stove from the barn and vent it out the window.

I'm prepared to make do for a few weeks in the case of a real disaster, but all of these SHTF scenarios and Walking Dead fantasies are just that. I have no illusion that I could fight off the hoards emptying out of the cities in a real emergency, or that there would be any game left to harvest.

[10x]

snip

Because of having a cold and the weather we haven't left the house in over a week. Put it this way, plenty of fuel, plenty of food, plenty of toilet paper. Got everything covered.

Toilet paper used to be a luxury in both Canada and the U.S. In some parts of the world toilet paper and clean water still is an unaffordable luxury.

[dragon813gt]

More of a nightmare. Think about modern houses: my house doesn't have a chimney.

This is one of the nice things about living in the north east. There are a lot of old homes and they have fireplaces. I will never live in a house that doesn't have one. My house was built in 1900 and is considered one of the newer ones as far as the original borough is considered.

This winter has woken a lot of people up. I was laughing at the people complaining to PECO that they still didn't have power after five days. If I was the PECO representative I would have laughed and stated bluntly that electricity is not guaranteed and it's not the electric company's fault that you aren't prepared for a power outage.

Every store in the area is cleaned out of generators and snow blowers right now. We are supposed to get 15" tomorrow. I blame the lack of snowblowers, shovels and salt on the stores that decided to put lawnmowers and other summer items on the floor about three weeks ago. Who is buying a new lawn mower or lawn furniture this time of year?

[Blacksmith]

You can not be completely prepared for all possible disasters but you can be somewhat prepared for any disaster. The size and scope of a disaster can vary from being without power for an hour to an Earth cracking asteroid collision but people and families somewhat prepared will have it better and have better odds than those who don't

In any scenario you can imagine the most important thing is your mind, your knowledge and attitude are your first and best defense. Thinking about prepping and thinking through what if scenarios will go a long way toward preparing your mind.

The next logical step is to make simple preparations to ease your situation in likely short term problems. Then if you choose you can extend these preparations for other and longer disasters if you desire.

I think the mass gangs moving out from population centers is overblown. To start they will prey on each other first then no water and contaminated water will take serious toll in the first few weeks, people with dissentary don't make good zombie hoards.

I personally would rather make some preparations and never need them than trust everything to luck and end up kicking my own butt because of something simple I could have done and didn't. I would rather have a couple of ways of lighting a fire than freeze my butt off all night sitting on a pile of firewood.

Personally I think the most likely disaster will be caused when all the EBT cards stop working at once.

Read this link for a first person account of what it might be like:
http://sovietoutpost.revdisk.org/?p=72

[starmac]

I do not get the mass hoards of people coming out of the cities. Those that would be trouble have been conditioned to depend on the gov. and will stay put until told what to do or where to go. There is always a percentage that loots or preys on others, and that percentage would grow after a hungry week. Look at katrina, look at the populated areas in the north east, when things went south. The hoards stayed put and waited (some of them months) for the government to make everything all better. City people as a whole will not leave what they know, even if what they know is exactly nothing, by the time they come to the conclusion they had to do something, because the gov isn't going to help, it would be too late to do much.

[MaryB]

Hordes from cities may make it 60 miles, a 3 day hike for someone in shape. The fat EBT crowd? If t hey make 50 miles in a week I would be shocked. Then they would be facing how many guns in that 50 mile stretch?

[dtknowles]

Small town rural america, .......... That will be the big problem. 90 miles from the nearest big city and not many will survive it this far walking after an event.

Why do you think that not many could walk the 90 miles from the city? Why do you think that they will have to walk or even bike? Will all the cars and motorcycles be broken? Rarely is my car so empty it could not go 100 miles and when I am concerned about things I keep it pretty full and have 10 gallons of gas for the generator that I could put in the car. I live in a city at the intersection of 3 interstate highways and two major US highways. I think you are fooling yourself if you think you are remote enough to be safe. 90 miles is a bit of a treck on a snowmobile or cross country ski's but even if the roads are closed you will not be alone.

Tim

[dtknowles]

When the SHTF you stay where you are. You know the local area, know where the resources are, know what is available and what is not available. The folks who pack up and move will be moving into someone else's territory. Territory disputes over resources (especially life sustaining resources) do not end well.

I have lived on a subsistence level for the first 18 years of my life. One does not simply fall into that lifestyle - it takes a summer of very hard work and preparation to live for 4 or 5 months of winter when resources (food and heat) are short.

When the SHTF, the best bet is to stick where you are, keep your head down, do what you need to do to survive, assess your resources and make plans to maintain the resources that are essential to your survival.
There will be competition for resources. That competition will not be pretty or fun. Resources that keep you healthy like prescription medication may be limited.

Currently Eastern Europe is going through a SHTF event that is probably as bad as the depression in the dirty thirties. Folks are surviving - it isn't easy nor is it fun.
SHTF is not a game, nor is it romantic, nor is it fun. I knew folks that lived through SHTF times in various places in the world at various times. Many of their friends and family did not survive, and some of the folks I knew survived only by chance.

I know my local area and 2 days after the SHTF there will be no resources but what you might have put away and if anyone knows you have much they will be at your door. Only smart option is get out of town while the getting is good. Did you see the stories about the empty stores in Atlanta as people prepped for the latest weather.

Tim

[starmac]

LOL That 20 miles a day, would be from someone who is in fair shape and that has been eating somewhat well. After a month or two eating any scrap you can get your hands on waiting on the govt to save them, A high percentage wouldn't make 5 miles a day, in good weather. If something truly happened that shut down all givt help, there would be many casualties, and a lot of which would be elderly that worked all their life, with no way to go anywhere. I keep hearing about rural people shooting the masses, I just don't see the masses even getting to where most rural people are. I was raised rural and have spent my life rural for the most part, and while most people I have known would have no problems defending themselves and their family, I doubt many would shoot people looking for food, most I have been around would pretty much give you the shirt off their backs.

[dtknowles]

Hordes from cities may make it 60 miles, a 3 day hike for someone in shape. The fat EBT crowd? If t hey make 50 miles in a week I would be shocked. Then they would be facing how many guns in that 50 mile stretch?

You going to shoot me because I am on the road making my way from a disaster to my family or friends in a safe part of the country? That is down right evil.

Tim

[dtknowles]

I think a lot of people living in rural areas have a poor understanding of cities. There are a lot of fit, smart, capable, people living in cities. There are local 5K runs almost every month with hundreds of people run that distance easily and could double that easily as well and then do it the very next day. Since I went back to work I have not been riding my bike but I still think I could bike 15 miles in a morning or afternoon and do that again every day even with a 20 pound back pack and 20 more on the bike. Do not think that because a person is a city dweller that he is on the dole or soft or unarmed. Even a medium city of say quarter to half a million people will have thousands of very resourceful people and thousands more capable people with lesser resources. Many of these resourceful did not get to where they are by being stupid or nice but I don't think that you really have to worry about the worse of them as they are connected and will probably be on a jet or helicopter out of town to someplace better and bypass rural America.

Still my first option in a SHTF situation is to find out which of my friends and family are in a safe zone and make my way to them. I will secure my house and stuff as best I can but I will leave almost everything behind. We will take the car if we can or catch a flight out if available and the destination is that far. Hell I would fly to Australia or Hawaii or Timbuktu if I have too. I am not staying to fight for scraps or defend my stuff from the rabble. I have lived all over this country and have moved for lesser reasons and have friends or family in three of the four corners of the country and many places in between.

Tim

[starmac]

The people you are talking about would not be a problem for the most part. I am talking about the dregs, that would people are afraid would come trying to take what they owned. I was raised close to the coast, and we never rode out a hurricane, but instead left for relatives or even just camping and fishing away from the storm. hurricane tracking wasn't near as good then as now, and we left a couple of times the hurricane turned and hit Mexico. The people that would be a problem are the ones that stay and wait for the govt to bail them out, if something happens to the govt these people will be waiting for a long time. I personally think most of that ilk will wait where they are far too long to be much of a threat to people outside of the city.

[MaryB]

If it comes down to feeding you or feeding my family guess who I choose. Are you going to peacefully leave or are you going to try to steal my supplies?

There will be shooting, and sure there are people who are in shape, how many walked out from the areas hit by Sandy? A very small number judging by the people on TV asking where the government is we are starving. When they figure out there is no help coming it will be to late. They will not have the energy or resources to attempt a walk out. And when stores are stripped I don't care how friendly a town and people were before SHTF, after it will be defense of what is theirs.


You going to shoot me because I am on the road making my way from a disaster to my family or friends in a safe part of the country? That is down right evil.

Tim

[HarryT]

Looks like the best place to be is in a sailboat a couple of miles off the coast. Besides, sailboats always have lots of booze and bikini clad girls on board.

[dtknowles]

If it comes down to feeding you or feeding my family guess who I choose. Are you going to peacefully leave or are you going to try to steal my supplies?

There will be shooting, and sure there are people who are in shape, how many walked out from the areas hit by Sandy? A very small number judging by the people on TV asking where the government is we are starving. When they figure out there is no help coming it will be to late. They will not have the energy or resources to attempt a walk out. And when stores are stripped I don't care how friendly a town and people were before SHTF, after it will be defense of what is theirs.

Yeh, I get it looters and thieves will be shot on sight but shooting people on a public right of way is unethical even in an emergency.

Tim

[dtknowles]

If it comes down to feeding you or feeding my family guess who I choose. Are you going to peacefully leave or are you going to try to steal my supplies?

There will be shooting, and sure there are people who are in shape, how many walked out from the areas hit by Sandy? A very small number judging by the people on TV asking where the government is we are starving. When they figure out there is no help coming it will be to late. They will not have the energy or resources to attempt a walk out. And when stores are stripped I don't care how friendly a town and people were before SHTF, after it will be defense of what is theirs.

In Sandy I did not hear of people starving or lacking drinking water and many still had access to fuel so they could just drive out if they wanted. In Katrina people did try to walk out of the poor areas and were met with gunfire sometimes from police. I am of two minds on the Katrina situation becasue I doubt these people walking out had a specific destination to head too, no friends or family in the area they were walking too so they were probably were up to no good but they could have been just looking for help and in that case they did not need to be shot just told to keep moving and keep you hands off our stuff.

Tim

[MaryB]

In an emergency where you know things are down for the count, like a year or more before civilization begins to return there will only be one ethic, defend my family/town/tribe/extended group against looters. They will be shooting too you know and probably be first to ignore a stern get lost.


Yeh, I get it looters and thieves will be shot on sight but shooting people on a public right of way is unethical even in an emergency.

Tim

[Blacksmith]

Yeh, I get it looters and thieves will be shot on sight but shooting people on a public right of way is unethical even in an emergency.

Tim

In a really bad situation you will probably find some or many of the "public right of way's" blocked by barricades and armed guards to keep people out or turned into traps by modern day highwaymen.

[knobster]

Prepper? If we're talking about being ready for a week-long power outage due to a natural disaster then yes, I'm a prepper. As far as everything going sideways, my plan is to load up the family and head to my folks' place. Big garden, water collection, security, etc.

Ultimately, God is in control but I'm not going to sit back and wait for the manna to rain down from Heaven.