Second run results w/ photo- please help me learn

[Radarsonwheels]

Howdy

This is my second run ever. The boolits are Lyman 429640 .44 devistator hollow points. I cast 130ish in just over an hour. Some time in the middle I noticed my sprues taking longer to frost and turned down my Lee 420 from 7 to 6.5, added more #2 and fluxed.

After discarding the few warm-up malformed boolits I was left with around 120 that had sharp bases and good filled out casting. Today I weighed them all and seperated them all out by weight. Here's a pic showing the spread:
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f324/PhiladelphiaR/C7D16F21-59F7-4DFA-A0EA-FBF514BC70AF_1.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/PhiladelphiaR/media/C7D16F21-59F7-4DFA-A0EA-FBF514BC70AF_1.jpg.html)

There are no obvious defects that would explain the spread. For the most part they grouped +- .3 grains in two main groups @259 and 260 with very few xxx.5 weights to round up or down. The 258 pile is a little more spread from 258-258.5

I found six that had proud sprue nubs and won't sit flat. I'm not sure if I'll scrape them before installing gas checks or probably just throw them back. What's interesting is they all weigh 259. Maybe I had a smear going right then or it tells me something about the heat they cast at?

Would I be correct that the 259 and 260 piles show my two main alloy/mold heat ranges and the resulting smaller/bigger boolits? Would the 261 and 261.5+ piles be from when it was getting real hot?

I'm cutting sprues as soon as I see them frost over. I noticed once I got the mold nice and hot they fell off really clean and easy, but after a while at 7 on the heat the frost started to take longer and longer. I suspect my technique was improving and my casting speed started to overwhelm the mold with too much heat? My 1st run of boolits was done entirely at 7 on the Lee and I didn't run into any slow cooling.

I'm going to start load development and I have no idea how much a one grain or two grain deviation in boolit weight will change my spread or POI. I would like 1.5" 25 yard groups with a goal of 12" offhand 100 yard groups for next season's deer meat.

Anything you all can tell me about what I'm seeing or how I'm doing would be super helpful!

Thanks
Radar in PA

[Blammer]

looks good!

the only ones I would keep are the 3 you have labeled at 258 259 and 260, remelt the rest, work your load developement with the 258 and 259, then once you have a good load use the 260's and you should be good to go. Your accuracy goals should be fairly easy to obtain.

As far as how you did, Looks good to me! Yes as your technique gets better you'll have less culls and more consistant casts.

Yep getting too hot, and have to turn down the pot, you're getting better, just wait a sec or two longer after the sprue frosts over or hold the mould open 2-3 seconds longer between pours to 'slowly' cool and get a rhythem back and still keep producing boolits.

[Blammer]

you'll learn soon enough to be able to cull them by eyesight and get consistent wts. yea it's true. :)

[runfiverun]

I think you answered your own questions but haven't put the equation together just yet.
the alloy temp and casting pace dictate mold temp which in return gives you the weight variations.
to get an even tighter spread of weight you have to look at other things such as sprue cutting timing and how tightly you grip the handles.
when I am striving for accurate weight spreads I keep a close eye on pot temp fluctuations, and keep a running time count or listen to the clocks ticks closely and maintain the pace it dictates based on what I see coming from the mold.
once I have things "in the zone", I keep going as long as I can mentally and physically keep up that concentration.

[Radarsonwheels]

Thanks!

Wow really by eye?! My 'warm up' rejects are noticably shinier than the keepers, and the extreme low weights usually have a small defect in the bottom of the hollow point, but the 'keepers' all have a very similar look with a little flashing once in a while on the meplat (down past the pin) and almost always a little frosty spotting somewhere on the ogive. This scabby frosted area is different every time so it's not a rough or contaminated mold, and it seems to polish off when I wipe the loaded rounds firmly with a cotton tee shirt so it's just a surface thing I guess not a defect?

I am waiting for the correct top punch (ordered a 429 and made circles in the tops of my 1st 50 sized and loaded oops) and I also ordered a Lee six cavity 310gn 44 mold which takes the same punch as the devistator. I want a 429421 kieth mold for the history and the accuracy but I can't afford more than a 1cav Lyman or RCBS right now so I'll save my pennies and get a four cav this summer. Hopefully the flat wide meplat boolit will be easy after making the HPs one at a time.

[runfiverun]

the flat boolits will be a breeze compared to making hollow-points.

the shiny boolits are an indication of mold heat also, you noticed they come from the mold when it was still cold and the color went from bright silver to grey on the boolits.
this was also when the weights started settling down into your median.

[Radarsonwheels]

So to connect my own dots- hotter is heavier

[Walter Laich]

I would suggest a thermometer so you can really see the temp you're casting at.

I've got a PID but a simple thermometer works almost as well

[mpmarty]

6.5 or 7.0 on a LEE pot means nothing whatsoever. Those pots were born to be run with a PID.

[runfiverun]

hotter is better filled out, not larger.
that's where the weight comes from.

[Hounddog]

You guys weigh your boolits?:kidding:

[44man]

You guys weigh your boolits?:kidding:
You beat me to it! :brokenima
If anyone can see a difference with a .44 boolit even at 200 yards---well he is DARN good!
Tried weighing for a few times and actually shot worse groups.

[cbrick]

Many years ago I went though a phase where I thought weighing boolits was just the ticket to one hole groups. Weighed'em for quite some time, that's how I learned what a complete waste of time it was. Probably something to weighing 22's & bench rest bullets to look for possible air bubbles & such but 44's? Never again for me.

Radar, fine looking boolits for your second time casting.

Rick

[Jupiter7]

As the others said, I weigh for general purpose(load data) and curiosity. I'd shoot all those assuming full fill out on driving bands.

[**oneshot**]

I only weight sort my 22's, All the others just get sorted by eye. I dump them out on a towel and then roll them with a stick so I can see the bands and bases all the way around. It goes really fast once you get going.
By the way, yours look great.

[Bullshop]

Other things that can effect over all consistency are,
#1 Pot level, ( not marihuana)
The pot level effects consistency in two ways. It changes the pour rate volume and needs to be continually adjusted throughout a session that starts with a full pot and progresses through to a nearly empty pot.
It also effects the alloy temp to a certain degree. I have found that with my pots (RCBS) A full pot is not as hot as a half full pot at the same setting. The again at the bottom approximate 1/3 again the alloy is not as hot as a half full pot.
I am not sure but attribute this to the location of the coils nearer the middle of the pot than the top or bottom.
#2 is actually a result of #1 in that a variable flow rate can effect boolit weight consistency in at least two ways.
A higher flow rate will fill better to the point of even filling vent lines and causing skirting/flashing on the boolit bases.
Too high a flow rate can also cause increased turbulence in the cavity that can cause trapped air bubbles within the boolit, especially if the mold temp or alloy temp is at the lower end of optimum. For me optimum mold temp produces a sprue freeze in not less than 5 seconds and not more than 15 seconds dependent on the mold material, number of cavities, and volume per cavity. A 4 or 6 cavity 50 cal 700gn boolit mold stays hot a lot longer than a 2 cavity 22 cal 45 gn boolit mold.
For the really big ones I aid the sprue cooling time with a small fan and heavy aluminum plate to set the cooling mold on.
There now just when you thought you had it right someone has to mess with your head.

[kevmc]

If you know someone with a hobby lathe, A pin can be made about the same as your hollowpoint pin to throw solids.
Different bullet with same mold, saves some green....
I've got a single cav 429640, made a "solid" pin....shoots to same point at 50 yds as HP's.

What's that say about 2 or 3 gr. weight variance??

[Bullshop]

Weight variation in and of itself is not the real bugaboo. Imbalance caused by a void near the outer edge of the base is the accuracy killer.

[jonp]

Other things that can effect over all consistency are,
#1 Pot level, ( not marihuana)
The pot level effects consistency in two ways. It changes the pour rate volume and needs to be continually adjusted throughout a session that starts with a full pot and progresses through to a nearly empty pot.
It also effects the alloy temp to a certain degree. I have found that with my pots (RCBS) A full pot is not as hot as a half full pot at the same setting. The again at the bottom approximate 1/3 again the alloy is not as hot as a half full pot.
I am not sure but attribute this to the location of the coils nearer the middle of the pot than the top or bottom.
#2 is actually a result of #1 in that a variable flow rate can effect boolit weight consistency in at least two ways.
A higher flow rate will fill better to the point of even filling vent lines and causing skirting/flashing on the boolit bases.
Too high a flow rate can also cause increased turbulence in the cavity that can cause trapped air bubbles within the boolit, especially if the mold temp or alloy temp is at the lower end of optimum. For me optimum mold temp produces a sprue freeze in not less than 5 seconds and not more than 15 seconds dependent on the mold material, number of cavities, and volume per cavity. A 4 or 6 cavity 50 cal 700gn boolit mold stays hot a lot longer than a 2 cavity 22 cal 45 gn boolit mold.
For the really big ones I aid the sprue cooling time with a small fan and heavy aluminum plate to set the cooling mold on.
There now just when you thought you had it right someone has to mess with your head.
Are you saying that you add to the melt on a consistent basis to maintain roughly the same level in the pot during your casting session? How much of a variation do you allow in the pot level before you consider it problematic and affecting the cast?

[GP100man]

Schooot em !!!!

[Bullshop]

Other than returning the hot sprues to the pot I do not add. I do make frequent adjustments to the flow rate and have made a slight mod to my pot to make it quick and easy.

[Wolfer]

If you can see a difference on the target with any of those your a LOT better shot than me. Woody