.458 groove in 45 colt

[ian45662]

I have kind of an odd ball gun here. Its a civil war 3 band ballard rifle that was converted from 44 rim fire to 45 colt. It has a TJ barrel liner in it with a groove diam of 458 and a rate of twist of 1:22. I am kinda stumped as to where to go with this. Would a 45 colt bullet thats 454 in diam and weighs 255 grain made from dead soft lead bump up enough with 25 or 30 grains of black powder? Is this rate of twist suitable enough for this? I have a 405 grain hollow base bullet mold but I dont want to over load the rifle as it is over 150 years old. I have about 50 lyman 350 grain 458 hollow point bullets that are made of about 30:1. I made a dummie round with a 405 bullet sized to 458. I annealed a piece of brass and expanded the neck in 3 steps with 3 different expander plugs until I got to 457 I seated the bullet in the case and it does fit in the chamber even though the brass has been enlarged so much. I wont know anything until I shoot it but I thought I would ask you guys your thought on this.

[SharpsShooter]

You've got the wrong liner. The twist rate of 1 in 22 is intended for bullet weights of 400+ grains. It also seems that the chamber is questionable. I am somewhat amazed that it will chamber after being expanded to that degree. However, it is quite possible that you may be able to fire form it safely.At the very worst, you will split the case.

You ask if a .454 inch diameter bullet would bump up, the answer is yes it will. One of our members here spent time with a 45 – 70 shooting pistol bullets that were intended for 45 colt.

SS

[DeanWinchester]

Seems like a hollow base boolit would be your friend here.

[Don McDowell]

Are you sure it's a 45 colt chamber and not a 45-60 Winchester?

[Bullshop]

I have an old Ideal mold for the 250gn Keith boolit with flat bottom lube grooves. It drops about .457" diameter. Should be about right for your rifle.
I would consider trading it or I can cast you some boolits from it.

[Tom Trevor]

Bet its part of a 3 groove liner for a trapdoor springfield.

[ian45662]

Its not 3 groove and it is defiantly 45 colt. The guy I got it from recommended the 350 grain lyman hollow base mold and he sized them to 454. He gave me some to load that are about 30:1 he said. Believe it or not my henry which is about 1:16 or maybe 18 (cant remember) will shoot a 405 grain hollow base bullet with 20 grains of goex 2F with great accuracy and recoil is almost not even noticeable. I wonder if this could shoot something similar to that. I cant go much higher on the powder though this receiver isnt made to take a lot of punishment which makes me hesitate to use the 405s. Bullshop I am very interested in your mold. Could I buy a few bullets and try them out before I commit to a purchase of said mold?

[Outpost75]

The barrel liner is the proper spec. for .45-70. Most .45 Colt chambers are sloppy enough you could load and chamber a .458 bullet OK, but you need to stay mild on the loads because the Ballard is a weak action. I would suggest a "fat" cowboy bullet of .456" or larger as-cast and unsized, in a standard weight such as the Saeco #955, using plain and ordinary, standard pressure .45 Colt load data with mild loads of the fast burners, such as Unique, Bullseye, Red Dot or W231 and soft alloy, not to exceed 12 BHN.

Years ago I had an original Remington baby rolling block in .45 Schofield, which had been rebored from .44 WCF. It was rifled in the standard Trapdoor type rifling with .462" grooves. I rechambered it to .45 Colt (this pre-dated Starline cases being available) and fired thousands of rounds of 6 grains of Red Dot with factory Remington 250-grain lead hollowbase conicals and had loads of fun with it, about 1000 fps from the 16" barrel.

[Bullshop]

Yes you may. Just recalling I have another old Ideal mold for a 180gn hollow base that also drops about .457"
I use those for gallery type loads in a TD 45/70.
Tina is out right now and I don't know where the price list is but just guessing about $.15 ea. for the pb.
For the hollow base boolits its $.05 each additional. I charge the additional $.05 for all HB and HP designs because they are so much more time consuming to make.

[Bullshop]

Oh yes and something else just came to mind.
Some time back I reported here on having a Don Egan mold for a 450gn nose pour plain base boolit. The mold blocks have an off set condition that causes them to drop out of round boolits that measure .483" on the parting line and .462" opposite the parting line. I have sized these to .462" and they shot very well. The sizing process just seems to iron out the seem at the parting line as the rest of the boolit is .462"
I was just about to put this mold on auction so thought I should mention it. Your twist would certainly stabilize it. It should work good for some of the TDs with bores on the wide side just as cast and pan lubed.

[ian45662]

I have some 255 and 350 grain bullets I am going to try this weekend. I will see how they preform and go from there. Thanks

[Good Cheer]

http://www.hollowpointmold.com/miscellaneous/?picture=827#827

Lyman #454613 might work pretty good. It's the old .45 hollow base mold they made for their muzzleloading rifle long ago.

Maybe paper patching a 445599 could work. They're usually not too hard to find.

[ian45662]

I thought about paper patching but I got this gun to shoot in the north south skirmish association and paper patching is not allowed. I have been tinkering and what I have come up with is take my 457 plug and run it into an annealed piece of winchester brass to the depth I want. Then take my 460 plug and just barley put it into the rim. I can with finger pressure seat the bullet. I then take the de caping pin out of my resizing die and just run the case into it just a little but. If I dont do that the case will not fit in the chamber. There is enough pressure at the mouth of the case to keep the bullet from falling out but the bullet can still spin. I will post an update whenever I can get to the range for testing. Dont know when that will be

[bigted]

ian ... just shoot something with a little oomph to it and then slightly flair your case mouth for a good measurement. now measure that mouth of the case and load boolits that finger seat in it. load over full loads of blackpowder and a little on the heavy side.

purchase several sizes boolits from someone like Bullshop and try em in your colt chamber. then I would heartily recommend the Accurate Molds for good quality molds at a fair price. you will get exactly what you order from Tom and he will work with you on the exact diameter your rifle will shoot accurately.

good luck with your fun shooter. the barrel spec's may not be a death sentence to accuracy ... just experiment with diameter and seating depth. have fun!