2 or 6, Aluminum or cast

[50/50]

Ok guys, I'm a newbie not only to the site, but boolit casting in general. I've poured a lot of lead in my time, but never any boolits.

I know this has probably been hammered out somewhere before, and it's a lot like Chevy's & Fords, Vanilla & Chocolate, but other than quantity and speed is there an advantage/disadvantage of a 2 cavity vs a 6 cavity? I'm quite sure I recall in Handloader Magazine that Mike Venturino preferred 2 over 6. (I may be wrong). Is a 2 more precise? Now for the one that will probably get me shot by a stray boolit....is a cast iron mold better than aluminum? I know the latter is cheaper in price, but why does Lee make only aluminum, and all the others are made of cast iron or brass? There must be a reason.

I'm getting equipment together for the big start up this spring, and have decided on a Lee 20 lb bottom poor 120 volt furnace, a Star lube & sizer, and now I've got to purchase some molds. I'm sure I can't go wrong with any of them but I don't want to buy a mold, wishing later that I had something else.

Thank you very much! ----Linedock

[TXGunNut]

I like them both but for large quantities and/or extended sessions the four to six cavity moulds are my choice. I haven't noticed any differences in the dimensions of multi-cav moulds but I'm sure it happens. Most consistency issues I've noticed can be attributed to my technique, not variations in the cavities. Some boolits are only available in one or two cavities and I enjoy using them but they sure seem slow compared to the big moulds. Steel/iron gets a little heavy during long sessions and the aluminum is easier and cheaper to make. I don't have any brass moulds yet but they have their fans here as well.

[DLCTEX]

To paraphrase Will Rogers, I never met a mould I didn't like. I have moulds in brass, iron, and aluminum. I have no problems with any of them, but will say I have never had a cavity rust on an aluminum or brass mould.
I should say I have never had a problem with any of them since I learned to properly lubricate them with Bullplate. The irons are more forgiving if you don't lube and get lead buildup on the spre plate, they don't gouge so easily.

[Wayne Smith]

Use should dictate your choices. All of the makers of aluminum moulds use a different and harder metal than Lee does and it is stronger. I believe Mike only uses single cavity moulds for his competitive shooting. For ultimate accuracy get single cavity iron or brass. Every boolit will be the same. For pistol shooting where you are doing a lot of it get a four cavity iron or four cavity brass - I really don't want to handle a six cavity brass! or six cavity aluminium. For rifle shooting that is not competitive and for revolver shooting I would get a two cavity iron or brass but would and do use aluminium in these as well.

[country gent]

Another thing to consider is size of te bullet being cast. a multi cavity mold for a 500 grn plus bullet is going to really drain a 10 lb pot fast. A 6 cavity in any of the heavier pistol rounds will also empty that pot pretty quick meaning more time for reheating instead of casting. Wieght also becomes an issue in the bigger molds. A multi cavity rifle mold can have the cavities marked so the bullets can be segregated and shot as seperate groups of the same cavity only. You need to decide on your usage what you want to invest in time money and effort. For rifles I use mostly single cavity molds. For handguns 2-4 cavity are fine, I have a couple 6 cavity molds picked up at gunshows becasue the price was right. I also perfer cast iron to Aluminum ( although I have some Lees molds also). Ive never had a brass mold.
What are you going to be casting these bullets for? What usage a week/month/year? Accuracy requirements of the finished bullets / ammo? Also keep in mind that big shiney pile of bullets will need to be lubed and possibly sized.

[Fishman]

The 2 cavity lees are inexpensive and let you try designs to see if you like them. Then you can pass them on and get a 6 cavity. Whatever you decide get a hotplate to preheat your moulds. A six cavity will drain a 10 lb pot pretty quick and if you have to heat up your mould with multiple casts you won't have much alloy left.

[dromia]

As has been said it depends on your needs and options, if it was an either or I would always go for multiple cavities in aluminium. I have arthritis in my neck shoulders and hands, an hour at the pot is longest I can manage so I like to get as many boolits out in that hour as I can going for a four cavity usually, unless it is with the smaller diameters, as being the best compromise 'tween weight and production.

The good thing about the multi cavity is that you can still use only one cavity if you are going for consistency for accuracy, therefore they give you options a single cavity doesn't

I have and use single and double cavity iron and brass moulds as well as that is what the design I wanted came in, I also have a few four cavity iron moulds but they are heavy and about fifteen minutes is all I get with them.

As to precision a well made mould is a well made mould regardless of the number of cavities and will drop consistent boolits if used properly.

Again each mould material has its different properties strengths and weaknesses, they are all capable of casting fine boolits you just need to learn their foibles to get the best from them. Of all the manufacturers out there Lee's aluminium seems the poorest for the job and they take a bit more fettling but if you are lucky enough to find one in spec and that works then they can cast fine boolits too, I always prefer a Lee six cavity over a two as they seem to be easier to get to work.

As you are getting a star sizer then that would indicate volume and multiple cavity moulds would be the best option to feed the star.

You pays your money and you takes your choice.

[StrawHat]

It has already been said, but your use will have a say in what kind of mold you get. I shot competition with a revolver. Buying ammo was out of the question, same with buying swaged or cast boolits. So I cast them. At the time, six cavity molds (from Lee) were not available, so I used a pair of 2 cavity molds. I was able to cast enough to keep me shooting but had to cast every week. If I were to do it again, I would consider the six cavity option. Aluminum is lighter than iron or brass but for two cavity molds, the weight is not a problem. I have all types and varieties, the ones I prefer are the ones cut for the caliber I need. If you are shooting a lot (ie pistol or revolver competition) get the 4 or 6 cavity. For my rilfes, 1 or 2 cavity molds suit me.

[William Yanda]

"all the others are made of cast iron or brass"
As has already been said, there are other mfrs. who use aluminum. More cavities equals more weight especially with large boolits.
2 vs 6 is a matter of statistics and intent. Will all cavities cast similar boolits? More probable with a 2 than a 6 cavity mold. How many do you need, plinking or extreme accuracy, time available for production.

[cbrick]

While there may still be something to single cavity for extreme precision in bench rest matches with current CNC machining there is not nearly the difference between cavities that there was in days of old. It would be pretty rare to find someone that could shoot well enough to detect a difference in grouping from different cavities in a modern well made mold.

The difference the OP asks about between aluminum and iron molds is primarily how quickly they heat up and how well they hold and maintain that heat. Aluminum heats up quickly but cools far faster than iron or brass. They all work extremely well and most folks that have a problem with one or the other is mostly that they are more accustomed to how one heats & maintains heat and then switching to the other.

Rick

[50/50]

Thanks for all the help so far gentlemen. Boy, I'm glad I found this site. I belong to a rifle and pistol club here in town, and no one casts their own boolits! They all say that casting would take too much time. By time they buy all the equipment & spend all that time making them, they could have just ordered boolits on line and have them delivered to their doorstep. Well, I can understand that....I've bought mine for years like that. But the cost is going up and up (like everything else) and besides, next year I'm planning on retiring anyway. So I'll have lots of time. We have Bullseye, IPSIC, Action, and general target shooting activities her at my club. Myself, I shoot 1911's in 45acp, & 9mm's. I don't shoot IPSIC but I do shoot in the other disciplines.
One more question....I'm all for saving money, but correct me if I'm wrong, but the pictures I see of boolits cast from Lee molds all appear to have the edges of the grease grooves/bands slightly rounded a bit. I look at the ones from RCBS and Lyman, and they appear to have edges sharp and square. Is this something that effects accuracy or quality in general or am I just being too anal? Many thanks!

[Dale53]

I am a veteran caster. I have molds by all of the major manufacturers. Mihec and Noe seem to make the best molds out there. Mihec is group buy only but NOE has some in stock. Accurate Molds has a great reputation, also. With these people you get EXACTLY what you order. Having said that, I have many Lee moulds that work just fine.

I use five or six cavity in aluminum but my limit in iron or brass is four cavity (they just get too heavy when they have more cavities). I have some one and two cavity moulds but am a believer in multi-cavity moulds. My time is worth something, even if I am retired. When I was shooting long range with Black Powder Cartridge Rifles I used a four cavity NEI custom mould and I never gave ANYTHING away regarding accuracy to any of my fellow competitors. I have a six cavity Mihec mold for my .45 ACP (Mihec version of the H&G #68). I checked a bullet from each cavity and they were within .0002" in diameter (two ten thousands of an inch) and and within .2 (two tenths) of a grain in weight. You will NOT get more consistent bullets with a single cavity mould. That issue has been put to rest as far as I am concerned.

My Schuetzen rifle was a true half minute rifle. I DID use a single cavity custom mould for that. I could cast 100 match quality bullets an hour. Using a six cavity aluminum mould I can cast 750 bullets an hour. That is a valid comparison.

I have molds from iron, brass, and aluminum. All fine moulds and other than the weight limitations, I see little difference between their casting ability. I treat my molds like a fine watch and lubricate them with Bullshop Sprueplate lube as directed.

FWIW
Dale53

['74 sharps]

Ultimately, the size of the bullet coming out of the mold is in synch with what alloy is put into it, not the maker of the mold. Lead plus a small amount of tin will shrink a bit more that a harder alloy, reducing the bullet diameter; however, the bullet will obturate at lower pressures thereby negating the reduction. For a mold/sprue lube, Permatex Anti Seize, available at any hardware store, works very well.

[popper]

Forget the lube/sizer and go the HiTek coating process. Got no skin in that game but you will like it and will convert. It just plain works.

[bobthenailer]

FME you can usually make around 300 to 400+ a hr with a 2 cavity mould.
with a 4 cavity from 500 to 800 a hour .
6 cavity lee ?
8 cavity saeco 1,200 to 1,400 bullets a hour .
In all cases using only one mould at a time, I dont care using 2 moulds at a time, for me its too busy !
With your star S/L you can usually do 1,000 + bullets a hr .in stock form without all the gadgets.

[GP100man]

If you know the size/style of booilt ya lookin for an Aluminum mold from Accurate or NOE is the way to go PERIOD , where else can ya get a custom multi cavity mold ?? especially with the service they have !!

I don`t own an Accurate mold - - - - YET, but as soon as someone buys the yungens & rents the dog I plan on ordering a wadcutter mold from Tom !

Noe Moulds I have work & wish they all were 5 cavity !!

Now with that said I own many IDEAL & Lyman molds, some are 1C HPs of traditional design that our member Buckshot converted for me & they do what I ask of em just not in volume!

I mainly shoot 38/357 (hands are beat up from wrenchin & hurt most of the time) & my main stays are WCs , Lee 158 rnfp, & NOEs 358429, 360-180 for hunting all of these I have in multi cavity molds except the WC . I own 1 brass 2C mold but have never cast with it a Mehic but I hope to change that also with a 1911 of sorts!

I keep my aluminum molds clean & loobed with BullShops sprue plate loobe & use em both (steel & aluminum) the same different temps for differnt molds of course.

GP

[KCcactus]

My suggestion for a new caster is a Lee 20lb bottom pour pot and their 6 cavity molds. With the 6 cavity, you get large piles of good boolits in a hurry, as long as your pot can keep up. They are more than 3 times faster than the 2C. Plus, they are 1/3 the price of custom. You may decide to step up to custom later, but the 6C will still be useful.

[50/50]

Thank you Dale (and everyone else). You made me feel much more confident buying my first molds. I always research things and ask people's advice before I jump into something. Great forum

[41mag]

You came to the right place for sure, these folks are great.

A couple of things I would add to your list are a double burner hot plate and a casting thermometer. The latter can be had from NOE molds who is also one of the forum sponsors, not to mention a quality mold maker as well.

I use the two burner hot plate simply because it was actually cheaper than the single one at the store I picked it up at, and it does double duty warming up molds on one side and preheating ingots on the other. I can stack up around 8 or so of the cornbread type on the plate and let them warm up slowly to about 250 or so degrees. Then I use a pair of plairs to add as needed to the pot. This is only when doing a big batch of boolits though, or a batch of big boolits. That said though 20# worth of the Lee 452300 or 430310 is plenty for a good loading and shooting session.

I got into this somewhat like your saying, I was purchasing some commercial poured ones but with their cost, plus shipping, I could purchase my lead from members here, and still beat their prices for only 200 bullets, and I was getting close to three times that from the Lee mold, and purchased lead.

I started off with the one Lee 6 cavity, and the 4-20 pot myself. It all was paid for in short order. Well I already had the pot for pouring up large surf weights for shark fishing anyway.

I will also add in that while you don't need one up front, you should also look into putting together a PID controller for your pot, and for a few bucks extra you can build it with two controllers and wire it into your hotplate or your sizer heater as well. Or you can just do like I did and pick up an extra RTD and swap it over to the sizer when needed. It is pretty easy to just use a paint marker to mark your heat settings on the hotplate anyway.

If your looking for a good starter mold for that 45 to shoot in Bullseye, the Lee 452-200 SWC isn't a bad one to start out with. It can be had in both a 2 and 6 cavity version, so you could at least try it in the 2 first and if you like it step up to the 6 for real production. With that one you should easily be able to get around 500+ boolits per pot full of alloy, probably more I didn't calculate it out.

If you like that type boolit just about all the custom mold makers build a copy of that type. I had the Lee version, but when I got the chance for the H&G I got one of those as well as the one built my MP. They are all awesome molds but a bit pricey for just starting out.

Just take your time and research which boolits you might like to shoot the most of then start watching the Swappin and Sellin section down below. There are a LOT of great molds getting swapped all the time, but you have to be quick to get the good ones. That said though, from both my 1911, and several of my revolvers, I can pretty easily get 1" group accuracy at 25yds standing with a two hand hold, using boolits poured from the Lee molds. The key to any of them is being consistent with the temp and the pour rate. Once you get those two down you will find your boolits will be shooting as good or better than you can.

Good Luck and hope this helps.

[DLCTEX]

I don't understand the thinking about casting longer with a 2 cav. as opposed to a 6 ca, because if you empty the pot fast you will be waiting for the lead to heat up again. In my thinking you will be waiting for lead to heat when the pot empties either way and the boolit count will be the same at the time the pot is empty. My mould will be sitting on a hot plate while lead is melting so that there is no lost time or lead waiting for the mould to get hot. Maybe I am misunderstanding the thought? I also will have ingots sitting on the hot plate warming while casting to shorten the melt time and use a torch to speed the melting if I am in a hurry. I do enjoy casting, but I want the time spent to be productive.

[Fishman]

I don't understand the thinking about casting longer with a 2 cav. as opposed to a 6 ca, because if you empty the pot fast you will be waiting for the lead to heat up again. In my thinking you will be waiting for lead to heat when the pot empties either way and the boolit count will be the same at the time the pot is empty. My mould will be sitting on a hot plate while lead is melting so that there is no lost time or lead waiting for the mould to get hot. Maybe I am misunderstanding the thought? I also will have ingots sitting on the hot plate warming while casting to shorten the melt time and use a torch to speed the melting if I am in a hurry. I do enjoy casting, but I want the time spent to be productive.

When I was casting with a 10 lb pot I could add a preheated ingot every so often and keep casting. With a 6 cavity the pot drains, the mould temp gets off even on a hot plate, and you have to sit around and wait for the pot to come back up to temp. You just keep casting with the 2 cavity and the difference in production rate is much less than you would think. Now with a 20 lb pot it's a different story. The larger reservoir of lead holds the temp better and you can add preheated ingots at a faster pace. This is where the multi cavity moulds work best in my opinion. No stopping, keep going and dropping the sprues back in too. I ran my PID on both pots so this is an apples to apples comparison.

[bobthenailer]

I ran 8 cavity moulds with a old saeco 10 lb pot with no problems making 1,200+_boolets a hr! set temp @700 degrees , preheat ingots and return sprues back to the pot when still hot (while letting the current sprue set up) and keep the pot about 1" from full at all times . if it starts to get a little to low take a short break and let the pot catch up. i now have a 22 lb rcbs and use the same procedure ! if not i can empty a 22 lb pot in 1/2 hr

[StrawHat]

Run two pots, cast with one while the other is coming up to temperature. When you switch pots, load the empty with ingots, keep casting.

[Fishman]

I should point out that I was casting with a Lee 10 lb pot, so other's experience and pots may differ. I do think the idea that a 20 lb pot is more resistant to temperature fluctuations is a sound one, as there is more thermal mass present. Therefore it should be better able to handle the increased load of six sprues vs. two and the additional ingots.

Bob, that Saeco must have a heck of a heater on it! Sounds like a good pot.