Are gas checks optional on bullets with a gas check base?

[Crosshair]

Hi everyone. I used the search function and didn't find anything on this subject.

I am starting to get into casting primarily as a money saving measure so I can afford to shoot more.:Fire: (As the saying goes, I have more time than money.:roll:) I am planing on starting out using Lee molds for my casting.

For the .357 Magnum, I like shooting 158 grain SWC bullets in my full house loads. Since I would not use GC unless I really needed to, I figure a safe bet would be to buy the 6 cavity C358-158-SWC mold that is able to accept a gas check. If my .357s shoot fine and don't lead, then I don't need to use a GC. If they do lead, all I have to do is buy some GC and put them on the bullets. This way, no matter what happens, I only need one 158 grain SWC mold when I am starting out.

From a standpoint of safety I see no reason why I could not do this as the shape of the base of the bullet doesn't really have any effect on the peak pressure. The bullet without a GC would be like using a beveled base bullet. However, is there any reason that I am not aware of that would make doing this a bad idea?

Thanks again for your help.

[Bass Ackward]

Pretty simple really. But don't count on full house loads. Don't count on load / powder flexibility either, as you may have to take what you get. And many times a GC bullet is designed to carry a certain amount of lube which is calculated in the GC groove space too. Cause this will have to be wiped off to avoid powder contamination in the case or you will have to shoot fresh all the time. Especially in the summer. So if you have to loose this lube, chances are your going way down the velocity scale.

Just look at total costs when making your decision. If you have to shoot twice as much of a slow powder without the check where you could have used a faster powder with one, check cost disappears fast. And you have to bell your brass more for PB that cuts case life which are getting more expensive every day. And your shooting strings between cleaning can drop (don't have to, but likely) taking more time to clean which has patience ramifications to damaging the gun.

People do this all the time and some are very successful. Just not very many really save any real money. But they find this out eventually and usually get another mold designed for PB use. After all, a Lee mold costs what? Two boxes of jacketed bullets for a 6 cavity?

[testhop]

CROSSFIRE
welcometo the forum
what i did was try it (didnt work)so i bought an anouther mould (357429)

[felix]

Would you run 87 octane (7.5 compression) in an engine (pistons) made for 93 octane (10.0 compression)? ... felix

[Shuz]

My experience has shown me that PB boolits are all that is needed for normal handgun velocities up to 1300fps...PROVIDED the boolit is sized to fit the gun and is of the correct hardness for the velocity desired. Great accuracy with no leading is possible that way. However, if gas checked boolits are used, the size and hardness of the boolit are not quite as critical, and good accuracy and no leading can still be possible. Generally, I have found that a boolit designed for a gas check shoots better with the check installed than the same boolit sans check, and therefore I shoot basically PB designed boolits in handguns. Recently I have been experimenting with Lyman's 429303 boolit, sans check, but lubed with Lars Carnuba Red where the gas check shank is, as well as lubing the normal grooves. This lube, when cooled, stays on the shank when the boolits are handled and MAY act like a PB boolit when fired from my .44mag revolvers. Powder used is 2400. Early results have been promising, but then winter came!

[mstarling]

They only real way to tell in your situation is to try it.

I have done this but found that it is usually OK if I go to a powder designed for a more moderate rather than a full-house load.

Give it a try ... I don't think you can hurt anything, and then you'll know for sure.

[Blammer]

everything is optional, what works and don't work is a different story.

I push the lee 358-158 plain base bullets to about 1200 fps in my 357 mag rifle with no problems and decent accuracy.

[44man]

A PB boolit is always better then leaving the check off. There is nothing at all wrong with a PB but when you leave off the check, YOU HAVE NOT MADE A PB! You lose a drive band with it off and it may or may not match the rate of twist. It is also close to a bevel base and I have never seen an accurate one. You create a gas escape route and shorten the drive area.
Every rifle shooter will work to find the right bullet for the twist rate but most pistol shooters ignore it, don't ask me why, I can't answer it at all. There is not a greater bunch of guys that will go from the lightest boolit to the heaviest boolit conceived, in a given revolver, with no thought about the twist rate and stabilization. Too long of a boolit and the velocity needed can't be attained, too short and it has to be shot slow. Baffling to say the least. :confused:
Lube in the crack above a check, lube where the check was supposed to be, neither makes any sense or will do anything.
A boolit designed for a check will always shoot better with it. Felix said it best.
It also depends on what your accuracy requirements are. If it goes bang and hits cans at 10 yd's, you are good to go. If you want to hit the can at 100 yd's, forget it.
Here are two shots with a .475 PB, WFN boolit on a can at 100 yd's, at 1329 fps, BFR revolver.

[mooman76]

I think it is doable but it may take a little work. You could use a filler or something at the base to help the gas check base hold up. There is also something out there called soft checks which is a waxy type substance in sheets that you cut out and stick to the base of the bullet. I have heard they work but I have never tried them because of the climate I am in , not sure if they would hold up to the heat. They have a low melting point!

[Scrounger]

I think it is doable but it may take a little work. You could use a filler or something at the base to help the gas check base hold up. There is also something out there called soft checks which is a waxy type substance in sheets that you cut out and stick to the base of the bullet. I have heard they work but I have never tried them because of the climate I am in , not sure if they would hold up to the heat. They have a low melting point!

It gets a lot hotter in the case when fired than our air temperature. Whether you use this material or not, it is always a good idea to protect your ammo from extreme high or low temperatures. I know some guys that take their ammo to the range in a portable ice chest.

[crowbeaner]

A plainbase bullet is designed to obturate and seal the bore with a full caliber band. This helps avoid leading assuming hard alloys are used. The gascheck allows softer alloys and higher chamber pressure by keeping the powder gas from cutting the base. Flame cutting will surely allow more leading and "welds" the lead to the steel making the leading more difficult to remove. I tried the Lyman 358156 without the gascheck, and even with reduced charges the leading was far more than with the plainbase version of that bullet the 357446. If you use a gascheck bullet without the check you will allow the powder gas to flame cut the base reducing accuracy and increasing leading. Harder alloys will not help much unless you reduce your charges, defeating the design and still leading the bore more. Even with linotype the gascheck works better than leaving it off. CB.

[randyrat]

I think it is doable but it may take a little work. You could use a filler or something at the base to help the gas check base hold up. There is also something out there called soft checks which is a waxy type substance in sheets that you cut out and stick to the base of the bullet. I have heard they work but I have never tried them because of the climate I am in , not sure if they would hold up to the heat. They have a low melting point! Here is the link to these soft GCs i just ordered some to give them a try. I hope this is not a misrable attempt at trying to save a buck by spending $10 Tell ya what i'll be the point man on this one and let you all know what kind of result i get.

http://www.cliffsgunsmithing.com/index.htm

[High Desert Hunter]

I'll say this, I shot hundreds of gas check bullets sans gas check, from my Super Blackhawk, my 45 Colt, and from my 45/70. Now none of these were extreme top end loads, but they were all accurate, and except for the 45, had zero leading. Not say this will work for everybody, but it sure does for me.

Dave

[Lloyd Smale]

Im with felix. If you want a plain based bullet buy a plain based mold. 95 percent of my cast bullets are what i call high performance bullets. Bullets made to hunt with no plinking bullets. I dont use cast because there cheaper then jacketed bullets I use them because there better. By the time you buy a gun and all the assesorys that go with it, spend money customizing it. Then buy powder, primers, cases, a reloading set up a casting setup ect i cant see any sense in cheapening out by not buying a box of 30 dollar gas checks that makes a 1000 bullets. If i want plain base ill buy a plain based mold. If you want to be cheap about it and the bullets are just for rolling tin cans at 20 feet buy a cheap lee plain based mold. One can be bought for less then the price of a box of checks.

[44man]

Hey Lloyd---OOORAH! :drinks: Well said.

[joatmon]

Crosshair, welcome to the forum! Boy what a topic for your first post. If I were you I would get the plane base mold and get started with it, then later(or also if you can afford it) get the gas check to go with it. Then you will be set for plinking lite or with some checks and a sizer to seat them full throttle. Good luck, Aaron

[TAWILDCATT]

crosshair get lees 158 tumble lube.plain base and lees tumble lube
MIDSHOUTHSHOOTES.COM 6 CAVITY $34.76 AND HANDLES $12.57 LUBE $2.78
YOU WANT COMFORT NOT AGONY IN SHOOTING.keep the load reasonable
:Fire:[smilie=1: