Really big calibers??

[wlc]

Anyone here shoot the big elephant guns? I was in the LGS the other day and they had a 500 nitro express double rifle on consignment. Can't remember the mfg now, but boy howdy was it a beaut. Some days I really wish I had a pocket full or two of spending money. I'd have taken that bad boy home in an instant if the funds were available. Anyway it got me wondering if anyone here had and shot one in 500 nitro. I'd be interested in your experience with it.

[jmort]

At around 6,000 ft lbs that is a lot of gun.

[waksupi]

96025
Would this qualify? That's a Canadian nickle laying on the muzzle. Original 4 bore flint elephant rifle.

[MBTcustom]

96025
Would this qualify? That's a Canadian nickle laying on the muzzle. Original 4 bore flint elephant rifle.

The original Alaskan squirrel rifle?

[Bzcraig]

At around 6,000 ft lbs that is a lot of gun.

Sorry but I'm compelled to correct you, that's a lot of PAIN!

[wlc]

That's a nice 4 bore. Guy up here has a 4 bore double rifle. The brass looks like long toilet paper rolls. That one is HEAVY. I wouldn't want to have to carry it all day.

[shredder]

Flintlock 4 bore you say? I read a lot of the old hands accounts of early African hunting so you got my attention right away. I would also love to see more and of course hear all your stories about the rifle. I just bet you have a few!

[dubber123]

96025
Would this qualify? That's a Canadian nickle laying on the muzzle. Original 4 bore flint elephant rifle.

Somebody get some Bore Butter into that ole girl pronto!

[badgeredd]

SO...how big is the ram rod for that beast? Those charging ground squirrels should be stopped by the projectile.

Edd

[Hardcast416taylor]

Stiff recoil? As humor writer Jim McManus once said about shooting a heavy recoiling firearm as a curious youngster.."now I can applaud with my shoulder blades"!Robert

[waksupi]

Ric,
Can you post more photos of that beast?

I don't have good photos of it, I don't believe. I will need to sift through to check. This guy has two original 4 bore flinters.
96107

[shredder]

Now THAT is a ramrod~!!

[osteodoc08]

Does 375 H&H count? My father had a Sako in this caliber that I shot quite a bit in my teens. He has since rebarelled it in 7mm STW.

[nanuk]

I had a 500 BPE but sold it off before I found out about boolits

136gr GOEX FFg, 440gr JSP Woodleigh

fun to shoot

[btroj]

I don't have good photos of it, I don't believe. I will need to sift through to check. This guy has two original 4 bore flinters.
96107

At what point does a gun need a carriage?

[JimP.]

in order to fix my itch for a truly big bore rifle, I purchased a H & R 1871 12 bore rifled gun. Using 3 inch plastic shells, a .73 cal round ball, several different sized fiber wads and 160 grains of Pyrodex, I'm getting 1600 fps and it is fun to shoot. Recoil is like a big push with a very satisfying boom and smoke cloud. I mounted a Tasco red dot scope and have shot sub 3 inch groups with it at 75 yds. Works for me. JimP.

[tygar]

Anyone here shoot the big elephant guns? I was in the LGS the other day and they had a 500 nitro express double rifle on consignment. Can't remember the mfg now, but boy howdy was it a beaut. Some days I really wish I had a pocket full or two of spending money. I'd have taken that bad boy home in an instant if the funds were available. Anyway it got me wondering if anyone here had and shot one in 500 nitro. I'd be interested in your experience with it.

I've had doubles from 9.3 to .470 nitro. Did shoot a 500 & it shot about as hard as a .460 but not as sharp. Still hurt.

None of the doubles were really bad. The .470s were similar to .458. The doubles are a little heavier & seem to be made so felt recoil is less than with a bolt. Maybe just imagination but shooting my .458 double seems to be a little easier than my bolts.....except when one of these SOBs double on you, then plan on a 2 or 3 month vacation from shooting.

[308w]

.....except when one of these SOBs double on you, then plan on a 2 or 3 month vacation from shooting. !!!!! Ouch !!!!

[tygar]

.....except when one of these SOBs double on you, then plan on a 2 or 3 month vacation from shooting. !!!!! Ouch !!!!

Yep. Have had .375, .458 & .470 double on me over the years. The 375 was bearable & was only sore, the .470 was with a slightly lesser load & hurt for a few weeks but my 458 came out of my forestock hand, almost out of my trigger hand & muzzle hit my foot & ground. I couldn't move that shoulder for weeks & couldn't shoot for 3 months. I don't use set triggers anymore!

[Catshooter]

My brother has an NEF rifle action with a 20 gauge Ultra Hunter rifled bore. Using Mag-Tec all brass cases he shoots three .648 round balls per shot. Crimps on the equator of the top ball. Each ball weighs 392 grains. Gets about 1,100 feet. Recoil is a hard push. Prints a pretty 1.25 to 1.5 inch triangle at 25 yards, three inch at 50 and can't stop grinning.


Cat

[Whiterabbit]

Anyone here shoot the big elephant guns? I was in the LGS the other day and they had a 500 nitro express double rifle on consignment. Can't remember the mfg now, but boy howdy was it a beaut. Some days I really wish I had a pocket full or two of spending money. I'd have taken that bad boy home in an instant if the funds were available. Anyway it got me wondering if anyone here had and shot one in 500 nitro. I'd be interested in your experience with it.

Now that I have a 58 cal flint, I dream of a 4-bore flinter. One day...

But TOMORROW I am taking my 510 wells to the range for the first time. No blue, no front sight, but I wanna see when she can do, and fireform the brass. I'm excited!

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96026&d=1391838217





My shooting club, I had to introduce myself to the club and say what I like to shoot. Predictably in CA< everyone said they like 1911's, Glocks, and AR-15's. One bird hunter. I stood up and said "I like black powder, big bore hunting revolvers, casting lead, and in general anything that involves a really big bullet moving really slowly." I got chuckles.

[Whiterabbit]

There was a 4-bore on TOTW roundabouts June last year. I almost died when I saw it. I DID die a little bit inside. Only $2000 too. What's 4-bore, .95 inches? Yeah, that's what I want to take to my muzzleloading shoot one day. "we're gonna split balls on an axe blade today." "....Oh really? hang on, lemme get my other gun. Good luck, you 36 cal weenies!"

[saz]

At what point does a gun need a carriage?

We call that a Howitzer!

[elk hunter]

I've shot the 470 Nitro and 500 Nitro, but only in the Ruger #1. My personal largest by bore is my Gogswell and Harrison 577 2 3/4" BPE. For sheer horse power I don't know if that would be my 458 Win Mag or my 416 Rigby. All are genuine big bores and can be fun to shoot, in small doses.96805

[wlc]

I've shot the 470 Nitro and 500 Nitro, but only in the Ruger #1. My personal largest by bore is my Gogswell and Harrison 577 2 3/4" BPE. For sheer horse power I don't know if that would be my 458 Win Mag or my 416 Rigby. All are genuine big bores and can be fun to shoot, in small doses.96805

Beautiful underlever!!! Thanks for sharing!

[nanuk]

I've shot the 470 Nitro and 500 Nitro, but only in the Ruger #1. My personal largest by bore is my Gogswell and Harrison 577 2 3/4" BPE. For sheer horse power I don't know if that would be my 458 Win Mag or my 416 Rigby. All are genuine big bores and can be fun to shoot, in small doses.96805


THAT was exactly my rifle, but mine was a 3" 500BPE

awesome fireballs from it at dusk

[elk hunter]

96845The C&H is a wonderful old rifle that I plan on shooting a Cape Buffalo with. My wife claims this one. a T. Turner 500-450 3 1/4" BPE. It spent it's working days in India. When I got it the bores were very tired from too many rounds of cordite fueled ammunition. I made up a new set of barrels for it a few years ago. Now she shoots as good as she looks.

[str8shot426]

At what point does a gun need a carriage?

When the gun increases 6lbs by being loaded.;)

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I have a 550 Gibbs wildcat bolt gun and a 10 Bore Double SxS.
615gr mono-metal solid at 2600 or so from the bolt gun, current load in the SxS is 160gr of 2F and a 900gr round ball. I think about 1500fps.

That's about it here for truly big bores. Odd and end stuff like 404 Jeffreys on a VZ-24 and a 450/375 Ultra Magnum on a SN 20,xxx OM 70.

Rich

[cwheel]

How about this from yesterday. 1 1/16" bore, 1200fps ( or so ) 1100gr. 1" patched ball bearing. Load was 500gr. of single F.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B97Bqc0eQNc&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Chris

[mikeym1a]

That's a nice 4 bore. Guy up here has a 4 bore double rifle. The brass looks like long toilet paper rolls. That one is HEAVY. I wouldn't want to have to carry it all day.

That's what the 'porters' were for........................:-D

[Pb2au]

96025
Would this qualify? That's a Canadian nickle laying on the muzzle. Original 4 bore flint elephant rifle.

Also good for belligerent in-laws, charging tyrannosaurs, and putting down rabid Ford pick up trucks.

[Whiterabbit]

and swallowing nickels if you aren't careful with them when you place them on the muzzle!

[Changeling]

When young and "highly intelligent"(15/16) I had a friend who's father had all of these BIG rifles and more! He came over one day with a 700Nitro. Two shots were enough for me, it plain darn hurt me bad (I weighed about 130Lbs then).

Later in life I shot a 460 Wheatherby, that was an exercize in stupidity on my part! I was black and blue on my hole shoulder!!! There is no ned for such a rifle!

To this day I have a total dislike for recoil! I attribute that to the above.

[aap2]

Check out Youtube for 700 tyrannosaur and watch the video..it's funny.

[Idaho Mule]

Four bore = a 4 oz. ball = 1750 grains. How much double F to launch that thing and what velocity does it get? JW

[HollandNut]

Had a 500 NE Westley Richards , burned up in house fire seven years ago .. I love 'em .. The BPE is a different round in case some may not know ..

I reloaded them and the dies are around $500 a set and the normal presses we use are not big enuff for them in some instances ..

I want a .577 NE

[nanuk]

Had a 500 NE Westley Richards , burned up in house fire seven years ago .. I love 'em .. The BPE is a different round in case some may not know ..




in what way??? in mine, I used 500NitroExpress brass/dies and j-word bullets designed for the 500BPE.

[nanuk]

96845The C&H is a wonderful old rifle that I plan on shooting a Cape Buffalo with. My wife claims this one. a T. Turner 500-450 3 1/4" BPE. It spent it's working days in India. When I got it the bores were very tired from too many rounds of cordite fueled ammunition. I made up a new set of barrels for it a few years ago. Now she shoots as good as she looks.

are you thinking it was "500Nitro for BlackPowder"??? and not a BlackPowderExpress???

if it was a BPE, I'd wonder about shooting Cordite in it.... I was warned about using full power cordite equivalent loads in mine....
but the 4198 formula was supposed to be safe, as per SeyFreid.

[elk hunter]

The British loaded rounds for the Black Powder Express rifles (BPE) with reduced Cordite loads and labeled them as "Nitro for Black" loads. Cordite was very erosive to the old Black Powder barrel steels. My load for the Turner is a standard large rifle primer, 56 grains of H4198, 10 grains of Dacron and a 320 to 360 cast bullet as recommended by Ross Seyfried.


are you thinking it was "500Nitro for BlackPowder"??? and not a BlackPowderExpress???

if it was a BPE, I'd wonder about shooting Cordite in it.... I was warned about using full power cordite equivalent loads in mine....
but the 4198 formula was supposed to be safe, as per SeyFreid.

[Hednign]

I got a big caliber percussion rifle at home. I havent been able to fire it yet. Need to get a pretty special mold for it. The rifling is deeeep. The twist is fast so it was designed to use long bullets. The gauge is slightly less than a 4 bore.

99847

[HollandNut]

nanuk the BPE rifles were designed for BP loading and the NE rifles were originally cordite loads , you do not want to shoot a NE load in your BPE rifle , you will have RDA and fast

[HollandNut]

hednign , that's sweet there

[Gunslinger1911]

As a teenager at the range with my "manly" 357 Blackhawk. guy shows up with a vintage 96 cal musket (Brown Bess maybe - memory fails me). Guess I wasn't familiar with rifle recoil yet - absolutely knocked me on my a$$. Gun did not touch the ground - I was NOT gonna drop this guys gun !!!!!

[smilin jack]

I took my son and his friend shooting at the range when they were in high school. I showed them how to load and shoot my 58 cal Navy Arms Hawken Hunter with a RB and 50 gr of 3FFF = target load. His friend thought that was a sissy load so he said yes to trying my elk hunting load.

Hunting load was a 610 gr Minnie ball (Lyman 577611 with modified adjustable base plug) and 120 gr of 3FFF. I caught my rifle as he was landing on the ground. "Yes, that's a rifle" was his comment.

The rifle is proofed to shoot 200 gr of 3FFF. I only shot that charge once. It cracked the stock so had to epoxy the stock.

I shot a large cow elk in 2006, facing me at 50 yards with the hunting load. The Minnie Bullet entered the brisket and exited under the tail. The elk landed on it's back, gained it's feet and stumbled off a few yards to collapse. Glad it was down hill to the truck.

Dave

[Idaho Sharpshooter]

I've got a true Ten-Bore double rifle. Colin Stolzer in Kansas made me a traditional set of hand dies like you see in the cased double from a century or more ago. RB's mike about .775". I'm too lazy to walk all the way out to the shop in my stocking feet to mike one at 11pm.

135gr of ffg 777, one dry wad, two tallow soaked ones and the round ball. I put about .010" of roll crimp on them, just enough to hold the second round in place under recoil. It's not too bad, the rifle weighs about 12 pounds and the MV is only about 1550fps.

I owned a Kreighoff DR in 500 NE 3" and a Searcy double in 470 NE 3 1/4" fun guns to shoot. The 470 went with me to Africa, but I passed on an Eland bull. Shy $1800 of the trophy fee.

[Whiterabbit]

good opportunity to update. Restocked my rifle, and of course finished the sight installation, bluing, etc:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113393&d=1407896316

510 wells express. Goes to 8000 ft lb with legitimate load data. Internet barnes bullet load data goes to 9000 ft lb at the muzzle. So far, I've shot it to 7000 ft lb. Wont likely go above that. There is simply no need. The NOE 850 grain bullet is a bit under 2000 fps. Doesn't need to go the full 2k+. I wouldn't feel undergunned for any light vehicle er-um, elephant.

original (split now) stock:

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97379&d=1393051258

some loads, with m855 for size comparison

http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/fss/e60e9610b56e0e7ef8346d4bb3f5ce01

[dh2]

I have a .375 H&H Mag. and a .458 Win. Mag. if it takes more than that to kill it I don't need to be hunting for it

[koehlerrk]

Biggest cartridge I've ever fired was a 375 H&H... buddy of mines' Browning. Beautiful rifle, and the recoil wasn't as fearsome as others led me to believe... more like a good turkey load from a 12 gauge than anything. Stout, but definitely not something you want to use all day long.

Biggest bore... well, I did shoot a Brown Bess musket. That was actually fun, though it wasn't loaded heavy. Not much experience with the big stuff up here in the NE... 30-06 is overkill on most everything we have here.

[Whiterabbit]

If we all shot based on need, everyone would own a 30-30 single shot and a side by side shotgun and nothing else. Fortunately, we choose not to live based on need alone.

Personally, if I need a 30 round magazine and access to NFA products, I don't need to be living in that area. But that seems to sound more politically ominous than some silly concept like not needing a big bore because it "kills deader" than a 458. I don't need to be shooting at people, but that doesn't mean I act condescending to people who carry firearms every day?

Of course we need high cap magazines, NFA, 50 BMG, black powder, military style small arms, ready access, and right to bear. Of course. Even if we use our cannon, big bore sidelocks, and DD exempt safari rifles for shooting paper plates. Of course we need them.

[Whiterabbit]

I dream of owning a 4-bore sidelock. Roundball shooter. Sounds like amazing fun. And the guys at the muzzleloading rifleshoot will look at me like I'm Nucking Futs for the whole shoot! :D

[troyboy]

Mr Hubbel has quite a few innovations in the big bore field. I have wanted his 12 bore wildcat for some time.

[JWT]

I'm starting to feel undergunned with just my 375H-H, 416 Rigby, 458 WinMag, and 30-378 Weatherby.

[Whiterabbit]

you're just saying that because bears are gentrifying your neighborhood.

[truckjohn]

Many of those huge rifles weren't really designed like Weatherby designs his rifles... They weren't made to inflict the maximum amount of pain that a human can handle.... They weren't designed to run at huge chamber pressures...

They were also not designed to be shot off the bench... Hunched down over a rifle like that - it will rattle your brain...

They were made to take advantage of momentum... A huge, slow moving bullet will penetrate very, very deep by it's nature....

For me - the really big cartridge is the 577/450 Martini... I have a 520 grain bullet mold... but I shoot it at a fairly slow, subsonic velocity - and shooting that monster is a hoot.

It's funny, though - that monster cartridge makes a 30-06 look like a 22 sitting next to it....