Is there a way to get light bullets to hit POA in .38 Special?

[Low Budget Shooter]

.38 Special Specialists,

My .38 guns are all fixed-sight models. My attempts to use the Lee 358-105-SWC or the 95-grain version of the 358242 have yielded loads that hit so far below POA as to be unusable. I've tried sending them faster and slower, but that doesn't change POI enough. Is there a way known to some of you gurus?

Thanks,

LBS

[Larry Gibson]

Been playing with the Lee 105 SWC in the 38 SPL and similar light weight bullets for years. Short of sight alteration I've not found a way........which is why all my 38 SPL/357s now have adjustable sights.

Larry Gibson

[Dale53]

This "might" be an oversimplification, but-t-t, I have decided after shooting tens of thousands of rounds through fixed sighted handguns:

You can find a load you're happy with in a particular fixed sighted pistol or revolver and "regulate" the sights for that one load (regulate meaning to file the sights) and then stick with that one load. In a service piece this is not necessarily a bad thing. I have a Bisley Vaquero that I worked up a load that works very well and does what I need doing with that revolver. My IPSC .45 ACP 1911 had high visibility fixed sights regulated to a specific load. It was a great answer for THAT problem. It also worked very well in the field for edible small game and a dandy self defense pistol for feral dogs, hogs, black bears, and the two legged dogs a feller might meet in "back of beyond"...

The other answer is to do like Larry Gibson does, have adjustable sights on the guns you want to shoot a variety of loads. I think I came to that conclusion when I was about 14 years old (LOL). I have little use for most fixed sighted guns. But, that's just me...

FWIW
Dale53

[Low Budget Shooter]

I appreciate the information from you gentleman who have done this a good bit. Thanks! LBS

[W.R.Buchanan]

Both ways to get there have been discussed above. the only thing I'll add is if you are going to shoot many loads out of the same gun a front sight with interchangeable blades is kind of a must.

An adjustable rear sight is only going to have so much range. By changing the front blade out you can have one set up for light loads and one for heavier loads.

The one for the light loads will generally be higher than the one for the heavier loads since the boolit stays in the barrel longer and recoil is further along before the boolit leaves the barrel.

You can get more range out of a front sight with different blades than you can out of a rear sight only. However unless you are going to commit to one specific load and regulate the sights to that load, the only way you will be able to cover all the bases is to have both adjustable front and rear sights on the gun.

Randy

[MtGun44]

Tall rear sight or short front sight. For fixed sight guns you pretty
much have to choose one weight and set the sights for that.

Bill

[Ickisrulz]

What is the "rule of thumb" for sight regulation? What I am asking is if a revolver is regulated to 158 grain bullets, what weights will if work close enough with the sights?

[rintinglen]

Short answer: no.

Especially the small, light Snubbies tend to shot far afield from the point of aim with light bullet loads. Very light loads will shoot a little closer, but it is not realistic to think that a gun that is regulated to hit poa with a 158 grain boolit at 850 fps is going to do well with a 105 grain boolit. The barrel will rise more with the heavier recoiling boolit so the lighter boolit will hit low. The only way around it is to either get a replaceable front sight to allow adjustment of the sight height, or else say to yourself, "this is THE load" and file the front sight accordingly.

[fecmech]

What is the "rule of thumb" for sight regulation? What I am asking is if a revolver is regulated to 158 grain bullets, what weights will if work close enough with the sights?
The closer you are to the caliber standard bullet weight and velocity the closer you will be to the sights. If you go heavier in bullet weight or slower in velocity you will go higher (longer barrel time), if you go lighter in bullet weight or faster you will go lower( less barrel rise and barrel time). What also enters into the picture is what you consider "close enough".

[FergusonTO35]

My S&W's are dead on with 158's, anything less will print low but with equal accuracy. My Ruger Service Six on the other hand does just as well with 158, 150, and 140 grain slugs. I think the heavier a gun is the less sensitive to bullet weight.

[Wolfer]

Having shot fixed sight revolvers since I cut my teeth my experience has been the same. But, I have five loads for my new vaquero that I shoot regularly. Only one shoots exactly to the sights. It's the lee 452-255 RF pushed to 970 fps. The sights were filed to this load, boolit landing at the top of the front sight. Another .5 gr of powder gets the 452-424 solid to just under the sight. 1.3 gr more gets the HP version to the same spot. The lee 452-300 RF at 850 requires the front sight to be as far down as it can go and still see it. It will still land about the top of the back sight. The lee 452-228 1R pushed to 850 will land behind the sight.
I use all these loads for slightly different purposes and practice accordingly before hunting. Only two loads get most of the use anymore. The 255 lee for general small game because it so accurate and the 452424 HP because of its performance on deer.

All the rest of my fixed sight and one of my adjustable sight revolvers only have one load that the sights have been regulated to.
If you play with it enough you can use a little Kentucky windage and get by. The 45 loads are not all with the same powder. Sometimes that will make enough difference to be useable.
Just what's worked for me. Woody

[Treeman]

In my experience it is possible to get 125-130 grain bullets and light loads to hit reasonably close to full 158 grain loads in a 38 special. The physics of it all make bullet weight a much bigger factor than velocity in POI and so each weight has its own POI but 130s are usually usable for plinking with a similar sight picture and lighter recoil.

[brassrat]

I wonder if changing the crimp might do something.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Thanks for all the good info. As Treeman said, I've been able to get 130 grain bullets close to the POI of 158 grain bullets. The POI is higher/closer with Unique than with a similar power level of W231. Why the difference? LBS

[Scharfschuetze]

Keep in mind that a revolver will pivot or rotate in recoil at the web of your shooting hand and the amount of rotation and its velocity will be dependent on the weight of the pistol/revolver, the weight of the projectile and the velocity of the load being fired. Vary any one of them and you will vary the point of impact in relation to the point of aim. As noted above, a heavy bullet usually stays in the barrel longer or at the same velocity, has more recoil and thus the pistol/revolver has more time or thrust to rotate in your hand and thus the higher the point of impact compared to a lighter boolit.

As a firearms training officer during my LE career, I taught my officers to hold their revolvers as high up as possible on the back strap of the revolver to help in controlling recoil and to reduce the barrel climb for faster follow up shots. You might try the opposite approach and hold your pistol a little lower down on the grip and see if that will bring your POI up a bit by lowering the point of rotation and allowing the pistol/revolver to rotate higher and faster. Just hold it uniformly from shot to shot and perhaps you'll find a sweet spot for your lighter boolits.

[Artful]

My over simple solution is to use bright paint and put a stripe on the front sight so you know how much higher you need to hold to hit with the 105's - you have to shoot with both eyes open - and get used to covering the target with the front blade, but you can hit targets just fine once you get used to the system.

[Low Budget Shooter]

Hmmm. Interesting.

[FergusonTO35]

My S&W 642, currently back to the factory to fix a rough forcing cone, is dead on with the 158 grain boolit by filling the rear notch with the smooth square part of the front blade. When it comes back I'm going to see if I can get it to shoot lighter Boolits by painting another aiming point lower on the front sight.

[376Steyr]

One thing I've never seen mentioned about fixed sight guns is how the shooter will change over the years, but the gun won't. The grip I have as a 50+ office worker is a far cry from what I had as a 25 year old mill hand. Glad most of the revolvers I've owned over that time span came with adjustable sights.

[Low Budget Shooter]

I sure appreciate all the good info in response to my question. LBS