Figured out why my Rossi 92 won't shoot...

[Deep Six]

I finally got around to slugging my 20" blue Rossi 92 in 44 mag. This gun has never produced a respectable group with any ammo I've ever tried in it (cast, jacketed, mag, special). The best it's ever done is with the Lee 240 RN over 7.5 Unique in special brass and it barely managed to keep up with my 4-5/8 flattop at 25 yards off a rest. I've never slugged it before but measured 0.430" at the muzzle with calipers.

Anyways, I found a good soft 45 cal bullet and lubed it and the barrel up. I started pounding it into the muzzle and all went normally for the initial 2" inches. Then the bullet literally dropped for the next 15" inches. Then I had to start pounding on it again. Then I had to start REALLY pounding on it. I was using an 3/8" oak dowel rod and each hammer blow was only moving it less than a 1/4" each time. I finally hammered it all the way out and measured it at 0.428".

So basically I have a barrel with 0.428" at the chamber, probably 0.433"+ for the majority of the barrel, and then back down to 0.430 or so at the muzzle. No wonder this thing doesn't shoot! That also explains why soft 44 special bullets work the best. I think I'm done with Rossi's. Should I try fire lapping or just give up and try to enjoy the 4" groups at 25 yards? It's good enough for fast pace steel banging anyways.

[rockrat]

I would try firelapping first. If that didn't work, then maybe a lead lap

[popper]

Don't have an answer, pretty common in rifles.

[DougGuy]

Boy that sure gives me an idea! An easy way (and I tell ppl this quite often) to find a thread constriction in a Ruger single action is tightly patch a brass or plastic cleaning jag into the bore, push it through and if it gets real tight where the barrel screws into the frame, it has a thread constriction. The harder that jag becomes to push it the last 3/4" the worse the constriction. So when I go to buy a lever gun, I will definitely have a cleaning rod and run it down the bore a time or two. The way you describe yours, you could very easily feel the bore change dimensions with a cleaning rod if you patch it tight enough.

[TCLouis]

Seems to me the best thing for you is an email (FORGET TRYING TO CALL Rossi) and explain the problem with the current barrel and that you are awaiting their instructions to send it in for a proper rebarrel and that you are awaiting further instructions on shipping.
Be sure to refer them to the link here also so they can read the good and bad being discovered/posted about their firearms.

[Deep Six]

The gun was already replaced once due to a factory bent barrel on the first one. It's been over a year since I received this one so it's out of warranty. It took them 4 months to determine the barrel on the first one was bent, so I really have no desire to deal with Rossi CS again. I also have no faith that whatever I receive back would be an improvement over what I sent in. I think I'll give fire lapping a try.

[DougGuy]

What would the cost be to have it rebarreled by a smith?

[Deep Six]

Too much

[crappie-hunter]

This is what I did to mine, scroll down to the bottom of the page and look at bore lapping kit. It worked for me and I was having the same problem you have discovered. My bore finally came out to .433 and a custom mold was ordered that dropped large enough to be sized .434.

http://www.lbtmoulds.com/measurebore.shtml

[superior]

I'm saddened to hear of your problem. Out of 17 rifles, my M92 in 45colt has become my favorite.
And, mostly because of how it shoots! Am I just lucky, or are you just unlucky?
A buddy of mine was repeatedly nailing the top of a bowling pin at 50 yards while down on one knee. He said it was the most accurate lever action he's ever shot. I would still contact Rossi as I feel it should be covered. After all, it IS defective from the start.

[missionary5155]

Greetings
Why not pilot drill that barrel and put a correct diameter liner in it. New barrel and smithy time = $250 or maybe more. Contact any of the gun mechanics here on CB and see what prices they can offer.
Me I would do it my self.. What-cha-got to loose.
Then there is JES Reboring.. Make it a 454, 45 Colt, 475 Linebaugh.... I have at least 6 JES barrels and they are near perfect. Great shooters.
Mike in Peru

[osteodoc08]

Make it a custom caliber as mentioned, or trade it off. You wont be happy just keeping it.

[Deep Six]

Turning it into a 45 is an interesting concept. Maybe I'll try fire lapping and if that doesn't work the rebore would be a good option.

[pipehand]

Having JES rebore your 44 to 45 Colt could give you an advantage over those of us that have factory Rossi 45's. Mine shoots well, but the chamber is huge, and causes the brass to expand a lot upon firing. A rebore would let you hold to the tighter tolerances of say, the 454.

[jh45gun]

Interesting I do not have a rifle, but have the Ranch Hand in 45 Colt and it shoots great it is a fun little pistol to have. The brass comes out fine no size problems and the bore is good all the way no tight or sloppy spots. Once i got the sight issue taken care of with a higher front sight I really like it.

[knifemaker]

Fire lapping or lapping of your barrel will not correct the problem you have. In fact to lap it enough to remove the tight spots will wash out your barrel lands and make the problem worse. You have three ways to correct the problem. #1 return to the rifle to the factory and have them install a new barrel. #2 Have your current barrel bored out and a liner installed, #3 or have a custom made barrel installed. number 1 is the cheapest, number 2 the next cheapest in price. Number 3 will cost you more then you paid for the rifle. there is #4, dump the rifle on some poor unsuspecting soul and now you know the reason I do not like buying a used firearm as it may be buying someone elses lemon unless I can make a good inspection of the firearm prior to purchasing it.
I will admit that I bought a Rossi 92 in 357 mag. from a member of this forum. I did not get a lemon, in fact I got a rifle that had a very smooth action, fed everything I loaded into the magazine, including 38 spec. wadcutters and was far more accurate then I guessed it would be. I would not sell it for twice the amount I paid for it.

[jackmanuk]

bore it out to a 45 smoothbore for blackpowder

[cbrick]

No experience with Rossi but if factory replacement barrels are anything like Marlin that would be a waste of time and money. I bought a Marlin 94 in 45 Colt, the Cowboy rifle. Took the bore scope to it and was shocked at what I saw, it looked like it had been hacked out with a chisel. Sent it back to Marlin with photos of the bore & had to pay for a new barrel. The new factory barrel was worse than the one I sent in. It now sits in my safe waiting for me to get around to spending the money for a new aftermarket barrel. Once I do and I probably will, I'll have the cost of the rifle, the cost of a factory replacement barrel and the cost of an aftermarket barrel tied up in it. Pricey Marlin huh?

I've looked through the bore scope at several more brand new Marlins in the store while looking for a 45-70 and they were every bit as bad. Sad what they are putting out these days.

Rick

[felix]

Basically, sending a gun back for anything but lawyer safety reasons is a mistake. The assumption is that the same quality control guys will be involved, and they could care less about "accuracy". If the factory uses a special team to handle problems or customization, that would be a different matter. But, they typically charge big dollars for any compensation to the lawyered gun. So, prolly your personal smithy would do much better for the same bucks. The JES option sounds most excellent! ... felix

[DougGuy]

Jeez the more I read about current leverguns, of several mfgrs, the more I want to go over one with a fine toothed comb before shelling out for it! There are hints and clues and tidbits in these threads that would really behoove the buyer to write them down and go with a keen eye peeled for issues that most here have posted out of hindsight. No way you could see any of these things by ordering one online or having a LGS order you one. Only way I would order one sight unseen, is with a no questions asked return policy. Some of this stuff is downright scary! Can they not make a barrel these days?

[Deep Six]

One thing is for sure: it's not going back to Rossi. Like I said in a previous post, it already went back for a new barrel because the original was bent (shot 3 feet left at 100). It took them months to decide to just send me a new gun. The new gun has a [somewhat] straight barrel but now the bore diameter problem. The only thing I'd accomplish by sending it back would to be without a gun for several months. I am confident that whatever I get back from Rossi will either be as bad or worse than what I have now. At least the current gun has a good finish and smooth action.

What I need is a source for an aftermarket barrel without having a smith cut one from scratch.

[knifemaker]

Deep six I feel for you as I had a Marlin 94 in 44 mag caliber with the same problem. It was a pre safety marlin that the chamber end of the barrel was slugged at .431 and the muzzle end was .433 and it would not shoot worth a darn. I sent it back to the Marlin factory about a year before Rem. took over and paid to have a "ballard" type barrel installed. The original barrel was a micro-goove barrel.
When I got it back the darn thing was consistant in barrel groove dia. but was .432 from end to end. I had to get a custom .433 sizing die in order to get decent cast lead groups at 100 yards. I was lucky that the chamber took the loaded .433 sized bullets and no hard chambering.
If I had to do it over again, I would look at having a gunsmith that specializes in installing barrel liners. I think some of the guys on this forum can reccommend one as I have seen threads about a gunsmith that does such a good job of installing the liner that it is almost invisible from the muzzle end. From the research I have done, it appears that the liners are better made and more consistant in groove dia. then most factory barrels for lever action rifles.
But to be fair to Marlin. I have a Marlin 1895 LTD-V in 45-70 Cal. that will put 3 shots into a group of under 1 inch at 100 yards with 4 different loads I worked up. That rifle is factory original. Two loads being a Ranch dog 350 gr. cast and the other two being with the Hornady 350 gr. jacketed RNFP bullet they make. That rifle along with my Rossi 92 in 357 cal. will never be sold and will be passed on down to my sons or grandsons.

[Tackleberry41]

Not sure whats going on with gun companies anymore. Marlin got took over by wall street guys, their only consideration is money. And why you see so many complaining about their lever guns anymore. They have the math worked out where theres an acceptable return rate to what they are saving cutting corners. From what I have read and seen in racks I wouldn't purchase another marlin lever gun, dont know if they do the same thing with their bolt guns.

Rossi their just a cheap company. I cant imagine they have one factory making good stuff and another making the junk. The barrels I have seen its hard to find a good one vs just being a few bad apples. No need to make the bore and barrel concentric, or straight, or anything else. They must have the math worked out so the huge amount of returns dont bankrupt the company. Or maybe its just used to launder drug money.

[Dan Cash]

Deleted

[jh45gun]

Unfortunately it seems many gun companies today let clunkers come out of their factories. Can you say Ruger? Yet they make good ones too but they have let some terrible guns out of their factory. I have a Taurus 85 that is a gem I like it and it has never given me a problem. My Rossi I had to send back for a cartridge guide rail problem but they fixed it and sent it back and it has been fine. The barrel is good in it (45 Colt) and once I put a higher front sight on it it shoots where I aim it. Right now about the only gun companies I have not seen much for complaints is Henry, Rock Island and laugh Hi Point. All three of these companies products are well liked by those that own them and all three have flawless customer service.

[Alan]

Lapping will fix it, if done right. May take a couple of hours, but it will work. It cuts the grooves deeper too. Real lapping, not fire lapping.

[jonp]

I finally got around to slugging my 20" blue Rossi 92 in 44 mag. This gun has never produced a respectable group with any ammo I've ever tried in it (cast, jacketed, mag, special). The best it's ever done is with the Lee 240 RN over 7.5 Unique in special brass and it barely managed to keep up with my 4-5/8 flattop at 25 yards off a rest. I've never slugged it before but measured 0.430" at the muzzle with calipers.

Anyways, I found a good soft 45 cal bullet and lubed it and the barrel up. I started pounding it into the muzzle and all went normally for the initial 2" inches. Then the bullet literally dropped for the next 15" inches. Then I had to start pounding on it again. Then I had to start REALLY pounding on it. I was using an 3/8" oak dowel rod and each hammer blow was only moving it less than a 1/4" each time. I finally hammered it all the way out and measured it at 0.428".

So basically I have a barrel with 0.428" at the chamber, probably 0.433"+ for the majority of the barrel, and then back down to 0.430 or so at the muzzle. No wonder this thing doesn't shoot! That also explains why soft 44 special bullets work the best. I think I'm done with Rossi's. Should I try fire lapping or just give up and try to enjoy the 4" groups at 25 yards? It's good enough for fast pace steel banging anyways.

16 MOA is not fun and kinda useless. If you want to give up on it PM me and I might take it off your hands to fiddle with depending on the price.

[hpdrifter]

Some of this stuff is downright scary! Can they not make a barrel these days?

Sadly, most manufacturing control has been has been taken over by lawyers and beancounters.

Everything has been or is being "leaned". Steps taken out to increase efficiency, people of high experience have been displaced, and material is cheapened to the point of dangerous.

People that have no idea of the "Toyota" way implement it and leave it to plant personel to conduct it. It boils down to "just in time" mentality. Tis sad.

[jonp]

So basically I have a barrel with 0.428" at the chamber, probably 0.433"+ for the majority of the barrel, and then back down to 0.430 or so at the muzzle.

Are the Rossi barrels hammer forged? I'm wondering how this happens. It seems pretty strange to me.

[cbrick]

So basically I have a barrel with 0.428" at the chamber, probably 0.433"+ for the majority of the barrel, and then back down to 0.430 or so at the muzzle.

Are the Rossi barrels hammer forged? I'm wondering how this happens. It seems pretty strange to me.

Not being a machinist I've wondered that myself many times. It's something I've seen a few times though not in a Rossi. Will take a better machinist/smith than me to explain that. Yep, seems quite strange to me also.

Rick

[Deep Six]

Well guys I think I'm going to keep it for future project stock. The action and wood are actually very nice with good fit and finish. I even rubbed in several coats of BLO so the stock is nice looking and a lot more weather proof. Everybody complains about the Rossi actions but I've got no complaints about this one. All it needs is a halfway decent barrel. I'm thinking it may become the 38-40 I've wanted for a while now. Anyone got a recommendation for a smith that knows how rebarrel a Rossi done right?

I figure it's better to just spend a little money on it and get something really special that shoots straight than it is to tolerate 16 MOA or just cut my losses and move on.

[Bullshop Junior]

The gun was already replaced once due to a factory bent barrel on the first one. It's been over a year since I received this one so it's out of warranty. It took them 4 months to determine the barrel on the first one was bent, so I really have no desire to deal with Rossi CS again. I also have no faith that whatever I receive back would be an improvement over what I sent in. I think I'll give fire lapping a try.

If that doesnt work, and you deside to sell it, let me know.

[w30wcf]

Deep Six,
Sorry to hear about the issue with your Rossi. If you were to use Poly Shot Buffer as a flexible gas check that just might make the rifle shoot very well. Use slower burning powder (2400, 4227, etc) and then fill the case up to a distance of 1/2 the bullet length from the case mouth, then seat the bullet compressing the buffer.

Here's what it did in my '73 Winchester which has an average .4345" groove diameter with .428" diameter cast bullets :grin:.....

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o25/w30wcf/Leverguns/44-40PSB1.jpg

If you would like to try some, send me a PM and I'll send you a small amount to test.

w30wcf

[303carbine]

I finally got around to slugging my 20" blue Rossi 92 in 44 mag. This gun has never produced a respectable group with any ammo I've ever tried in it (cast, jacketed, mag, special). The best it's ever done is with the Lee 240 RN over 7.5 Unique in special brass and it barely managed to keep up with my 4-5/8 flattop at 25 yards off a rest. I've never slugged it before but measured 0.430" at the muzzle with calipers.

Anyways, I found a good soft 45 cal bullet and lubed it and the barrel up. I started pounding it into the muzzle and all went normally for the initial 2" inches. Then the bullet literally dropped for the next 15" inches. Then I had to start pounding on it again. Then I had to start REALLY pounding on it. I was using an 3/8" oak dowel rod and each hammer blow was only moving it less than a 1/4" each time. I finally hammered it all the way out and measured it at 0.428".

So basically I have a barrel with 0.428" at the chamber, probably 0.433"+ for the majority of the barrel, and then back down to 0.430 or so at the muzzle. No wonder this thing doesn't shoot! That also explains why soft 44 special bullets work the best. I think I'm done with Rossi's. Should I try fire lapping or just give up and try to enjoy the 4" groups at 25 yards? It's good enough for fast pace steel banging anyways.


The only advice I have is....... buy a Winchester.:wink:

[yeahbub]

I knew a fellow who was in a similar fix. His Rossi 44 Mag had a .428 bore and .434 groove, tighter at the breech than at the muzzle. Mediocre accuracy at best. It was fire lapped until consistent and would produce considerably better accuracy (minute of deer) if soft alloys were used which would allow obturation. Paper patching was an even better solution and eliminated leading. If you don't mind being limited to softer alloys, lapping may be the ticket. For some years, Rossi rifled their .44 Mag rifles to SAAMI maximum dimensions, according to Steve of Steve's Gunz, but they seem to have finally gotten the message. I'm told the new rifles coming in are now .429-.430. I haven't had a chance to examine a new one, so I can't say from personal experience.

Boring and rifling to .45 Colt is an option which the smith doing the job can adjust details to suit you.