Starting on PC fixture...

[jafierst]

So I am slowly getting all my parts together so I can start ES PCing. I bought a convection toaster oven at Costco this week and have the HF gun on order along with the powders. I have only cast a handful of boolits, but want to start casting more. I only have reclaimed range lead at the moment and I hope the PC will enable me to use them in my 45 and 300 BLK both with suppressors. All of my dies are Lee TL dies I have 9mm, 45 acp, 300 blk, and a 44 mag die. I am planning on attempting to convert these to hollow points so that I can build a fixture with pins. I have a small Sherline cnc mill, and the dies are the perfect size for it. I am also thinking of trying make my on molds eventually.

But until I do that I am going to first try the nose down coating approach. I have made it up to page 60 of the posts in the sticky and so far I think this will work best for me. I saw a lot of people were using old cookie sheets with holes drilled in them for bullets to sit in. Lucky for me, I'm a design engineer at a plant that makes bread pans and cookie sheets! I am also the guy that programs the cnc turret press. I have access to all kinds of aluminized steel with which to make things from. I stayed after work today and punched out my first trial pans out of 19 gauge aluminized steel, and they only cost me $2.25 each for material...

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s570/jafierst/Forum%20Pics/IMG_20140205_203340_zps11c81344.jpg
http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s570/jafierst/Forum%20Pics/IMG_20140205_203944_zps1ed5a8d9.jpg
http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s570/jafierst/Forum%20Pics/IMG_20140205_204001_zps579e14e9.jpg

It is arrayed with 7/32 dia holes for the 9mm and the 30 cal, and .394 dia holes for the 44 and 45. I think I will be able to run 120 boolits per pan and fit 2 pans in the oven at once. I had to hem it by hand with a hammer, so it isn't too good looking, but it fits in the oven. The boolits were the only ones I had laying around, and they will be headed back to the pot soon. I plan on making a turntable, so I added 4 holes to the corners of the pans that will rest on pins on the turntable. I think the hardest part is going to be moving the filled pan from the turntable to the oven without having them all fall over.

Can't wait for the HF package to show up now. And I will have to go look for that nonstick foil I have been reading so much about.

[Beagle333]

I'd figure that when stood in the holes like that, they would be fairly stable and easier to move to the oven than when standing alone.
Wouldn't it just be nice if we could coat them in any position we like and then just lower an oven down over them! :wink:
Good luck with it!!!8-)

[Walter Laich]

nice job. keep us posted on your results with them

[bangerjim]

Cool racks.

But.............you will DEFINITELY want to use Non-Stick foil over them and press the boolits down in the holes. If you do not, you will end up with PC building up on your racks to the point they will not work well. And you do not want waste time trying to wire brush off the PC, as some have suggested they have tired.........to avoid buying a roll of inexpensive NS!

With NS foil, you just peel it off after about 4 coats and put a new layer down! Could not be easier. I use it on all my racks.

Let us know of your progress.

I have a complete machine shop of my own with full-sized tools and can make just about anything. But I would not waste time making standard loading dies (mabe swaging) and molds when I can buy them already designed and made. Molds are a REAL "be-ach" to make!

bangerjim

[RP]

You need to be careful if these racks work good you may have to stay after work a lot more often making us all some trays. Notice no LOL I was not joking.

[HiVelocity]

You need to be careful if these racks work good you may have to stay after work a lot more often making us all some trays. Notice no LOL I was not joking. No, seriously, we're not joking. I could use 2 right now. Lol!

HV

[RP]

I think he is scared he may have to pull double shifts making racks come on bud how did they work ?

[jafierst]

It's been too cold to try them out and just got the es gun this week. I'm heading out to plow the driveway, but will hopefully give it a try this afternoon. Also just picked up my first Mihec mold at the post office and can't wait to try it out.

[mdi]

I'd be willing to purchase a set of those trays, wanna sell me one?

[russs]

count me in for a tray.

[jafierst]

I might be able to work something out eventually. There are a few changes I need to make. I am also planning to make one with nails that I can use for hollow points and for drying my cases after wet tumbling.

[RP]

I really don't like to wait go ahead and send me a few sample sheets I try them out and let you know, PM me for my addy. Like I was told one time you can stop for a break but the rest of the world keeps on moving.

[totalloser]

Hate to be a wet blanket, but I see a couple potential problems using that method. :(

The angle of interface will make it difficult to get the boolit coated where it meets the ogive and powder will build up where they touch making them stick pretty well unless you keep the powder away from it. Maybe a pass with low pressure air to blow it away? This will leave most of the PC on the contact surfaces (where it matters) but likely will leave ridges where the boolit meets the tray.

The second issue I see is that unless all the holes are filled the contact surface will get coated. Non-stick foil may help with this issue by giving a replaceable surface.

*If* it doesn't work out or you decide to make new trays, I would consider making relatively small ones so that you don't need a huge batch to do a run. The other thing I would consider is mimicking the nut on the tray method which creates high points for the boolits to sit on. Raising them up helps coat the lower part of the boolit and if extreme, also a little bit of the base which makes insertion much easier. But more importantly it gets the ES surface away from the sides of the boolit to allow the powder to more readily cling. The sides are the most important part to coat (as you design appears to address) since that is where gas cutting will take place if there is not an adequate coat.

There are folks who have tried similar processes using expanded metals with good results on the boolits due to the minimal contact surfaces, but reusing the jig... well not so great.

PS The nail point method for HP's I suspect will work VERY well.

[totalloser]

Another thought to capitalize on your manufacturing resources: Rifle boolits are a tough nut to crack using ES, but how about this: A sleeve type jig to drop boolits in base first onto a tray with matching raised bumps. Place a small hole nose retainer over the top and lock the assembly together. At this point the boolits are held by the nose in a hole at one end, and sitting on a bump on the base. Slide the sleeve up and lock it out of the way and now the full bearing surface of the boolit is exposed for ideal ES coating. This would only coat the bearing surface, and the PC would diminish gradually along the ogive due to the location of the sleeve assembly. But the jigs would be reusable and fairly quick.

I built something similar to place pistol boolits on nail heads but found that is was quicker to just place them manually than to fool with the jig. But pistol boolits cooperate with sitting on their butts a lot better. ;)

[jafierst]

These are some holders I made to hold my dies with the lock n load bushings. They have rubber feet on the bottom and keyholes on the back. That way they can sit on the bench or hang on the wall. I thought the red one turned out pretty good.


http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s570/jafierst/Forum%20Pics/IMG_20140222_173447_zps2jvmjbmr.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/jafierst/media/Forum%20Pics/IMG_20140222_173447_zps2jvmjbmr.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s570/jafierst/Forum%20Pics/IMG_20140222_173456_zpskgtnvsgb.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/jafierst/media/Forum%20Pics/IMG_20140222_173456_zpskgtnvsgb.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s570/jafierst/Forum%20Pics/IMG_20140222_173528_zpsqrisoq12.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/jafierst/media/Forum%20Pics/IMG_20140222_173528_zpsqrisoq12.jpg.html)

http://i1306.photobucket.com/albums/s570/jafierst/Forum%20Pics/IMG_20140222_173514_zpsi8x6ubkc.jpg (http://s1306.photobucket.com/user/jafierst/media/Forum%20Pics/IMG_20140222_173514_zpsi8x6ubkc.jpg.html)

[RP]

That's sure better looking then the spice rack I picked up at the second hand store.

[pretzelxx]

Um. I like. I like a lot. Everything fits together so nicely in that

[totalloser]

Those are very pretty :) Was thinking more about how to make that jig work. I think I might have another more simple idea that might work:

Set boolits of one size in holes, then place a solid plate over them, flip it over. Energize it and spray. Then tip sideways enough to remove flat plate and turn assembly over and bake.

This would prevent powder buildup on the fixture to be baked (since gravity prevents buildup where boolit contacts perforated fixture) and gives you something that will hold rifle boolits on a stable fixture to bake. Most of the overspray powder buildup would fall on the non-perf plate to dump in the "booth" for recycling.

*Some* buildup will occur, but a countersink in a hand drill would clean it up relatively quickly. Obviously the tip would be bare, and the base would as well, but functionally my suspicion is that it would work. I would probably lean towards a narrow fixture, preferably with two rows staggered, but every artisan has their touch... :) You know your fixture idea makes me want to try something similar for my 124 grain rn 9mm's that are a pain to balance.

[totalloser]

Fumbling a bit here, but last post I added a pic of another possibility. This setup would give you a fixture to allow handling of a rack, and a nose support that is not likely to have excessive PC buildup (sprayed nose up) and a bake fixture that is not the energize fixture so buildup is mostly irrelevant.

This would put a full coat on bearing surfaces, but not on bases or nose. Probably would have a snap-off PC ring around ogive, but since there would be gravity resistance to buildup, the buildup would be minimal.

Upper sketch shows spray configuration, second sketch shows configuration for initial placement, and baking configuration.

[mdi]

Total...You must be an engineer, I ain't seen one yet that can't help but try to improve everything they see...:kidding:

[popper]

If you start with a holy plate, coat, then put the flat plate on top to rotate & bake, you won't get mush of a ring on the nose, bases will be coated. Use no stick on the flat plate but nothing on the holy plate which is removed for baking.

[totalloser]

MDI- partly wanting to see it succeed, and partly feeling guilty for raining on the parade. And no, I spent several years bombing out on calculus before realizing I wasn't going to be an engineer. :P

I think Popper's way would work, too, but probably small trays are better because rifle boolits are tippy. Flipping it over would require a steadier hand than mine- this is why I was thinking guide rods/sleeves.