Draw filing a barrel

[Skunk1]

Been reading a little bit about it but would like to here some tips, technics, and proper/best tools/files.

[fouronesix]

Pretty easy and you should have come across a bunch of good info during the search.

I assume you're talking about filing the flats on an octagon barrel?

Don't know if I can add much but for flats I put the barrel in a vise and situated in such a manner so I can make long comfortable strokes with the file. I use a good quality long, fine - medium mill with a wood handle. Hold it flat of course and more or less at a 90' angle. Start drawing with light even pressure. I situate my light source so I can really see the surface being cut. You should also be able to feel consistent smooth resistance for the entire stroke length. You can adjust the pressure and angle for best feel and best surface appearance. Watch for gouges caused by trapped filings... that's why it's important to be able to see the surface and feel the cut. Card the file often and use chalk. One trapped filing can gouge a long streak that will have to be taken out. Work up and down one flat, card, re-chalk the file, turn the barrel to the next flat and repeat for each of the 8 sides. Depending on how the stars line up, often I can get into a filing rhythm that allows for both a light push followed by a pull cut without loosing contact with the surface. Seems to save time.

Depending on the surface finish desired after the filing, you can sand the flats with 200, 400 or 600, etc. grit paper- either blocked or wrapped around the file.

Oh and almost forgot- show no fear, break out the elbow grease and get into it. Start with a positive attitude and adjust. It's really hard to hurt a barrel. The best way to learn how is to do it. Timidity wastes learning time :)

[waksupi]

Keep the tail of the file to your left. Don't rock it!

[labradigger1]

I bought an old 2nd model 1890 for a song once that was severley rusted and pitted along the barrel. Only option was to draw file the flats. After a couple of days of hard work and a couple of worn out files and reblueing the end result was worth it. Dont be afraid to try it and keep a file card close to clean the chips, also, chalk the file to keep from loading up.
Lab

[oldred]

You should not be able to wear out a good file on just one barrel, or a dozen barrels for that matter! As has been mentioned keep the teeth chalked, actually I find soapstone (welders chalk for marking steel) to work a lot better than common chalk, and clean the file OFTEN! I use a piece of hardwood for cleaning or even a good wooden paint stirring paddle works pretty good but personally I would never use a file card, wire brush or any other tool with hard wire bristles for cleaning a file, I have found the wood actually works better and it doesn't tend to dull a file like hard wire bristles but this is just my take on it. Another thing I have discovered is using a long angle lathe file, 12" or 14", instead of a mill file, the teeth are much less likely to clog and a new sharp file will cut the the metal off in tiny curls almost like very tiny wood shavings. Lathe files are designed to leave a fine gouge free finish on spinning stock and do so much better than a standard mill file, because of the tooth angle they can be somewhat awkward for general purpose file use but they are REALLY good for draw filling and have become the regular tool for that job for me.

[Skunk1]

Can it be done on a round barrel? And sanded afterwards. Or is it better to just sand away? My daughter and I are trying to get small pits out of a barrel. Or is there something I can use to fill them in. We just want a decent finish does not have to be perfect. Read so many different things some are absurd and some sound like they may work. I helped
My father years ago but the barrel was in better shape. This was a cheap gun and we thought we'd make a project out of it. She has had fun reading everyone's comments and trying different things on the previous questions she's asked. So we thank you in advance.

[fouronesix]

Round barrel- sure. Just don't dwell on one plane more than a stroke or two and work in an arc. The idea is to not put much of a flat anywhere. You'll have to slightly rotate the barrel in the vise much more often. You'll end up with a bunch of random, tiny flats. Then use strips of emery and go to it at 90' to the barrel. The only tricky part with a file will be the angles where the contour changes. The emery should take care of any small irregularities.

[oldred]

The only tricky part with a file will be the angles where the contour changes.

I have found that a good smooth cut half round file takes care of that little problem very nicely!

[MBTcustom]

Here's a video from Larry Potterfield that gives you the basic idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw
Typically, I do as Waksupi said, but sometimes I reverse. I'm still getting the hang of it myself.
What I do know, is that you never run the file over the work piece twice without cleaning it! Keep it moving.
Also, you would do well to buy flat files, and they are hard to find. Just sight down the file to figure out if it's straight or not. If I can't find a straight file locally, I call Harry Boggs from Boggs tool and ask him to find me a straight one. That man hasn't let me down yet!
http://www.boggstool.com/
Here's a picture of an octagon barrel I just finished and blued.
It was draw filed, draw sanded to 600 grit, then lightly polished with stitched muslin and 800 grit rouge. I think it looks gorgeous. Certainly a step up from the way Marlin let it go.
95835

[oldred]

That's a good point about using flat files that I completely forgot to mention and price does not always guarantee a good one, I have however found the lathe files I mentioned (Nicholson are the only ones I have used) to all be flat so far. I think it's probably because they tend to be thicker and heavier and thus less likely to warp upon heat treating or so that's my theory anyway but in any case I have yet to see one that was not flat.

[country gent]

I have files from the early 30s that mu Grandfather made during his apprenticeship to toolmaking. They still out cut any I have bought. Drawfiling is easy to learn and do but another trick is to "break in" the files bu using them some before starting the first barrel. Chalking and cleaning the file regularly is a big help. Also chalk and clean the file several times to remove oils used to perserve against rust as this will slow the loading of the file also. I used a very dry chalk "railroad" chalk sticks have an oil in them. Chalk board or driveway chaulk is good. Watch the finish and angles sometimes a coarser file is better than finer. With practice you will be able to "feel" the alighnment between barrel flat and file. I have a polish fixture made up that supports the barrel between centers leaving it open to be worked polished. Youll be surprised the finish a file will give when used properly and kept clean.

[M-Tecs]

I am with Oldred. Once you have used a long angle lathe file for draw filing you will never use anything else. I prefer a Bastard-Cut-over a fine for draw filing. My favorite this the Nicholson 14" Long Angle Lathe File, Bastard Cut.

[bob208]

learning to file is an art. in fact when you read about some of the old rifle makers they worked in an arsenal as a filer. which was a good job.

never pull a file backwards it will ruin it quick. when filing switch ends . if doing an octagon barrel work it to a square then take the points down.

[merlin101]

Can it be done on a round barrel? And sanded afterwards. Or is it better to just sand away? My daughter and I are trying to get small pits out of a barrel. Or is there something I can use to fill them in. We just want a decent finish does not have to be perfect. Read so many different things some are absurd and some sound like they may work. I helped
My father years ago but the barrel was in better shape. This was a cheap gun and we thought we'd make a project out of it. She has had fun reading everyone's comments and trying different things on the previous questions she's asked. So we thank you in advance.

I'm not knocking the skill and work it takes to file a barrel, but why bother on a round one? If the pits are deep enough to need filing then its going to be VERY hard to keep from haveing flats spots. Have you thought about bead blasting it and then refinishing?
The choices are almost endless and if you want to go cheap just paint it but if you go the pain route be carefull spray can paint won't hold up well to cleaning solvents.

[Skunk1]

I'm not going to spray paint it, that teaches her nothing but "take the easy way out". This is a project for her and I to learn. I've done a smooth barrel and it turned out great, we got this cheap and figured we'd take our time and learn something wether right or wrong. If we get it right, great. If we get it wrong, not a big waste of money and hopefully we can learn from our mistakes and try again. It's a father/daughter project take she an hopefully cherish no matter how it turns out.

[MBTcustom]

I'm not going to spray paint it, that teaches her nothing but "take the easy way out". This is a project for her and I to learn. I've done a smooth barrel and it turned out great, we got this cheap and figured we'd take our time and learn something wether right or wrong. If we get it right, great. If we get it wrong, not a big waste of money and hopefully we can learn from our mistakes and try again. It's a father/daughter project take she an hopefully cherish no matter how it turns out.

I applaud your attitude! Please, if there is anything I can do to help, don't hesitate to PM me. I am envious of the memories you are building and the good lessons you are teaching that young'un.

[fouronesix]

I'm not going to spray paint it, that teaches her nothing but "take the easy way out". This is a project for her and I to learn. I've done a smooth barrel and it turned out great, we got this cheap and figured we'd take our time and learn something wether right or wrong. If we get it right, great. If we get it wrong, not a big waste of money and hopefully we can learn from our mistakes and try again. It's a father/daughter project take she an hopefully cherish no matter how it turns out.

That's the best attitude!

I see the advice on using an aggressive bastard cut lathe file. That would be my last choice if trying to learn how to do it. For a round barrel that doesn't have any severe concave angles, a regular fine to medium mill file along with a couple of grits of emery cloth will do fine. If you don't have a file card you can use a brass brush in a pinch along with regular chalk. For the sanding, put an end of the barrel in the vise and use a strip of emery like a shoe shine buffer :)

[country gent]

Polishig a round barrel by hand is doable. A sanding block with leather padding needs to be made then lay a piece of saandpaper on the barrel and lightly sand the radious into the leather. Have several layers of leather glued down. This gives a countoru to work with. Now a layer of sandpaper around the block or glued down with rubber cement, this allows paper to be changed as needed. Sand with long light strokes using the radoius in the block slowly working around the barrel. I will make strokes the full length of the barrel so the polish lines are even and match. Start somewhat coarse and work down thru grits to desired finish. Again chalking the paper will help keep it from loading and to cut more even. The last couple grits dry sand then sand with oil as a lubricant. A mark on te breech or muzzle helps to let you know roation.

[oldred]

Try a piece of hardwood for cleaning those file teeth, just run the end corner along the teeth and the wood will instantly conform to the teeth shape and clean everything out between the teeth right down to fine dust! If a chip becomes tightly lodged between teeth, or rather whenever it does, I use a sharp pick to gently dislodge it taking care not to chip any of the teeth. A single chip can cause a lot of grief in just one stroke so be wary of those chips!

[Char-Gar]

Chalk the teeth of the file

Clean the teeth of the file often with a file card and rechalk.

[johnson1942]

dip your files in a strong acid, thats how the old blacksmiths did it. comes out sharper than new.

[oldred]

I have tried the acid trick and it does work, sort of, for an old dull file it certainly can restore it for general use to sharpen tools etc but it will never again be a new file. The acid will erode the teeth and leave it sharper than dull rounded teeth but the edges will no longer be even and it can not be used to get a really smooth finish, not a problem at all for sharpening and axe but it won't work so well for fine finishing gun parts or draw filing. Also acids like Hydrochloric (Muriatic) acid makes steel brittle due to a phenomenon known as Hydrogen embrittlement and while a file is naturally somewhat brittle due to it's hardness and carbon content Hydrogen makes it much worse and will allow the teeth to easily chip off. There are all sorts of tricks to rejuvenate dull files and most work to the extent that they are going to be usable for utility work but for Gunsmithing and tool work buy new files and keep them maintained, once dull and chipped there is no practical way to restore them to "like new" because the teeth are deformed, uneven and usually chipped and no method will undo that sort of damage.

[Skunk1]

I thank everyone for the tips and look forward to finishing this project (my daughter does too). Hopefully it will turn out good enough to brag about. And any more tips will be read and appreciated.

[waksupi]

Boggs Tool is the only place and way to sharpen files. Better than new. If you're not careful, you can cut yourself with them.