Im loosing my cases!

[beleg2]

Hi,
I do not know if it is correct to post this here, but as the .30 Rem. is similar to .30-30 Win. I try here. If not please move it or delet it.

I have been loosing my cases becuse after a couple of reloads I find some hve cracks on the sholder.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee157/beleg2/DSC02113X.jpg

Today i anneal some case and find that some have a change in color and some have no chage. Then I anneal a cople of cracked cases and have no change in colour.

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee157/beleg2/DSC02156X-1.jpg

Is it a problem with the matherial of the cases?
Any advise would help.
Thanks
Martin

[Bent Ramrod]

beleg2,

If your .30 Remington cases are old, or if the factory ammo is old, neck and shoulder cracks like those are not at all uncommon with certain batches. Other boxes of ammo/batches of cases go on and on for one reload after another with scarcely a single one lost.

I anneal .30 Remington cases before forming them for a .25 Remington rifle, as well as shooting the .30's as-is in my Model 30 bolt gun. (The new .30 Remington cases available from Huntington's and other places are very good and haven't given any trouble in my .30 rifle yet.) When I do anneal, I don't heat them to that pink color of yours on the right; that's the color you get after you heat the brass red hot and cool it. When my brass gets that hot it has reached a "dead-annealed" state. The brass is plenty soft and will stand shooting without cracking but is also prone to being crushed in the sizing dies because the shoulder is too soft to support the case mouth being forced into the sizer. Whether this has happened to your cases only a try at reloading them will find out.

I heat mine in bright light until the brownish/bluish dull rainbow color seen on the mouth of your case on the far left travels down just past the shoulder. That generally takes the excessive brittleness out of the metal but leaves enough spring in it to resist crushing by the sizing die. I'm kind of speculating here but the changes in colors you note in your various cases may have perhaps been the result of changes in the ambient light in the room. People who look for that "dull red glow" in the dark or in dim light have different ideas on when that color is achieved. When the lights come up again, you see different levels of oxidation on the metal. Hope this helps.

[Frank46]

Don't know if this would work, but try getting some 6.5spc cases.Don't know if the case length is the same as the rem case but they are supposedly beefed up to take the increased pressures of the 6.5 round. The 6.5 cases was origionally designed around the 30 rem case. just a suggestion, and like I said don't know if this would work. But hope this helps, Frank

[beleg2]

Thank for your answers.
Bent,
I anneal all the cases with the same light.
My procedure is a little uncommon, i take my cases with bare fingers and put the neck over the open fire until I feel the heat. them throw them into cold water.
As long as I can realize there was no difference between those cases. Just to be shure a reanneal some of the case and those that do not change colour nether do it the second time.
Frank,
I live in Argentina so it is very difficult to find some cases.
I think 6.8 Rem is shorter than the .30 Rem.
If I continue loosing cases I will try to make some using .30-30 cases.

Thanks
Martin

[HABCAN]

Somebody please chime in here to correct me if I'm wrong, but I have always believed that, to anneal, you heated and air-cooled to soften, and to heat and drop into cold water was tempering/hardening?

[fishhawk]

nope with annealing brass and copper heat untill almost red then quench in cold water

[JDL]

HABCAN, Your're correct if working with iron or steel, brass and copper are different. -JDL

[Nueces]

For brass and copper, the heating above the annealing temperature is what does the trick, quench or no quench. We quench cases mainly to prevent conduction of too much heat into the head area, which wants to remain hard.

In short, the same annealing takes place (with enough temperature), however the metal is subsequently cooled, fast or slow.

You therefore cannot harden brass with heat treatment - needs to be done mechanically by 'working' it - bending, drawing, swaging, etc.

Mark

[KCSO]

Back to the 30 remington...
The old Remington brass was pretty bad for cracking like you have. Rather than fight with that old stuff if you call Graf's they have new 30 Remington brass on sale right now. I have used it in 30 and 32 and it works fine and I am up to 5 reloads on one box of brass with no losses. If you want to anneal the old stuff i have found that if I hold the case by the base and hold the neck in the flame, when the brass gets to hot to touch that is the time to drop it in the quench. Red hot or so seems to be just too soft.

[scb]

6.8 spc cases way too short.

[hydraulic]

When I have a pot full of melted lead I take the cases in my bare fingers, hold them in the lead until they are too hot to hold, then drop them into a bucket of water.

[crossfireoops]

Beleg2,

Looking at your pics, I've got a hunch that you may be "Overworking" your brass......

Have you tried backing off on the sizing die a bit?.........the shoulders look as though they may be "battering" a bit.

I'd suggest backing off on the F.L. die until the rifle feeds / functions, ....and try 5 or 10 at that setting. No, ....it won't cure aged brass, but will keep what you've got left running a bit longer, ....No?

What part of Argentina? Spent some time in the Neoquen (Sp?) many moons ago. Sure enjoyed it.

Feliz Navidad, Prospero ano Nuevo.

GTC

[beleg2]

Thank for your answers.
What i still do not understand is why some cases change color and others do not. Looks like there are two lots of cases with different composition…….

Crossfireoops,
I suspect someone try to rechamber this rifle as it have a “funny” shoulder.
I have custom dies made specially for this chamber so it is not resized.
I live at Bahía Blanca, At the south of Buenos Aires province. Neuquen is a beautiful place for flyfishing, hunting and skying.

Thank.
Martin

[Bass Ackward]

What i still do not understand is why some cases change color and others do not. Looks like there are two lots of cases with different composition……. Martin


Martin,

I have had once fired brass do that. The guy that gave them to me only used two or three shots a year and they were loaded with jacketed for years before he shot them all. There is a chemical reaction to loaded shells with jacketed bullets that degrades the brass and makes it brittle. But what ever the reason, once you are done, you are done and it ain't worth foolin with.

Each time you anneal, the anneal will last fewer and fewer times. And if everything were done perfectly, brass still has a life cycle whether that is 1 time or 500. Once you hit it, time to move on.

[VTDW]

crossfireoops may be on to something here. And all of the above posts are correct. You might try not full length resizing. I just reread you last post. Are you not resizing at all?

Dave

[beleg2]

VTDW,
Sorry for my english, what I was trying to say was that "my Dies do not resice the shoulder to it original form".

Thanks
Martin