Cold bluing "liquid or paste"

[Skunk1]

My 12 yr old daughter and I took on a 22 single shot gun project. She is doing the work and I told her if she had any questions we would go here and ask folks with more experience than I. She will be reading any feedback on this. She has been spending quite a few nights smoothing the barrel as much as she can. There are still a few pits but we knew we wouldn't get them all without a lot work or expense. We read on here that the brownells orpho is the best cold bluing. What would be best/easiest for us to work with, liquid or paste? I've done the liquid with my father many years ago but the rifle we had was in better shape. Thanks for the help.

[Hawkeye45]

I have always used Brownells liquid oxpho in several Coates. I have used the paste once before and to seemed to blotch for me. I found that you need to read the directions carefully and use 0000 steel wool in between Coates.

Mr. Ed

[plainsman456]

I have both and like the paste better.

It seems to make a better if you warm the parts up before coats.

[cdet69]

I like the paste. I did a rifle for a friend of mine last summer and it came out well. I left the parts in the sun so they could heat up and everything worked out fine. I think a moderate amount of heat is the key.

[mikeym1a]

I've tried various types of liquid blueing agents, and was dissatisfied. I recently bought some Van's Liquid Gun Blue, when seemed to give a better, richer, more consistent color. It worked for me.

[Uncle Grinch]

I have both and like the paste better.

It seems to make a better if you warm the parts up before coats.

I agree, my Brownell's paste does a very good job when applied to warmed parts with either a chip or foam brush. I wipe it off and rub with 4/0 steel wool, then do it a couple of more times. Wipe down with oil when finished and gander at how good it looks for a cold blue.

[wv109323]

Plus 1 on warming the parts before applying the blueing. I used a propane torch to get the parts to around 150 *F. You can touch them but not hold onto them. Heat the parts up once and then degrease. Oil has a tendency to run out of places and ruin your blueing if you have not fully disassembled the rifle.
You can remove some pretty serious pitting on the barrel with a file and then sandpaper. I surprised myself when redoing a couple old 22's. One was a Win.67 and the other a rem.510.

[leftiye]

Van's is good stuff. Don't contaminate it or blue in the jar, it will stop working.

You can't beat Oxpho Bluue. Believe it or not, mixing the liquid and the paste seems to make an even better blue. People talk about cleaning, degreasing, etc. It seems to work anyway, just put it on. I believe Brownell's says that it works right through oils, though I'm sure they don't mean freshly oiled or soaked in oil surfaces. Don't oil items after blueing leave it alone after wiping and buffing with a paper towel, and let it continue to set (work).

[leftiye]

Plus 1 on warming the parts before applying the blueing. I used a propane torch to get the parts to around 150 *F. You can touch them but not hold onto them. Heat the parts up once and then degrease. Oil has a tendency to run out of places and ruin your blueing if you have not fully disassembled the rifle.
You can remove some pretty serious pitting on the barrel with a file and then sandpaper. I surprised myself when redoing a couple old 22's. One was a Win.67 and the other a rem.510.

10-4 about sanding by hand. You can take it as far as you want - right up to an almost jewelry polish. Much better finishes than the dull factory finishes on old rifles can be had this way. And when you go to blueing, the clean metal (no old oxides) really takes the blue. I just restored a old Remington model 25 this way, and it is Purty!

[Bulldogger]

I feel like I waste less blueing when using paste, but I'm not convinced it's identical in quality. It's a toss up for me presently, but I do like that I can squeeze out just enough paste to do the job, instead of saturating a cotton ball or wipe with liquid and not coming close to getting it all applied so much as soaked up and lost. I like that combining tip, liquid and paste together, I might try that!
Bulldogger

[Hardcast416taylor]

Brownell`s Oxpho Blue paste.Robert

[1989toddm]

Plus 1 on warming the parts before applying the blueing. I used a propane torch to get the parts to around 150 *F. You can touch them but not hold onto them. Heat the parts up once and then degrease. Oil has a tendency to run out of places and ruin your blueing if you have not fully disassembled the rifle.
You can remove some pretty serious pitting on the barrel with a file and then sandpaper. I surprised myself when redoing a couple old 22's. One was a Win.67 and the other a rem.510.

wv109323, what do you use to degrease after warming parts? Im going to be bluing a used crescent butt plate and want to get good cover.

[Goatwhiskers]

Instead of a cotton ball, use a wad of degreased 4/0 steel wool to apply the liquid. You won't believe how fast it works, no problem getting an even blue. GW

[nhrifle]

Naptha (available at any paint or hardware store) is an excellent cleaner before bluing as it leaves no residue. I have not personally used the Oxpho Blue myself, but have seen a couple rifles reblued with it and I was impressed with the results. I have used Perma Blue to completely blue several projects and it works quite well. Metal preparation is the key, as well as warming it up as stated above.

[seaboltm]

Oxpho blue paste on clean metal works great. Propane torch to slightly heat metal helps a lot. You still will need about six applications for an even finish. If you want to go old school, you can take a shot a rust bluing. The only drawback is you need a container large enough to boil the metal in, and that can be a problem for a rifle. Tanks big enough to hold a rifle are expensive. Perma Blue is a waste of time.

[1989toddm]

Naptha (available at any paint or hardware store) is an excellent cleaner before bluing as it leaves no residue.

Is naphtha as good or better than lacquer thinner?

[seaboltm]

Is naphtha as good or better than lacquer thinner?

I prefer lacquer thinner. Carburetor cleaner in spray form is also convenient and effective.

[johnson1942]

i know you asked about cold blueing but haveing just completed redueing a old savage .22 i wanted to suggest rust blueing useing your oven to heat the barrel evenly. i used mark lee rust blue several coats. i also got a 3 inch piece of capped pvc pipe from the hardware store and when all the coatings were on i put boiling water in the pipe and the barrel sat in that for a 1/2 hour. came out better that hot blueing. if your doing this with your daughter you have be careful of burns and also not upset the pipe as the water could really burn her also. the end result is very proffesional and last and last.

[1989toddm]

I prefer lacquer thinner. Carburetor cleaner in spray form is also convenient and effective.

Thanks, good to know.

[str8shot426]

I am also a proponent of the rust bluing. Just as easy as the cold method. Just very time consuming. I used pilkingtons rust bluing with excellent results.

[Bulldogger]

Oxpho blue paste on clean metal works great. Propane torch to slightly heat metal helps a lot. You still will need about six applications for an even finish. If you want to go old school, you can take a shot a rust bluing. The only drawback is you need a container large enough to boil the metal in, and that can be a problem for a rifle. Tanks big enough to hold a rifle are expensive. Perma Blue is a waste of time.

seabolt, I respectfully disagree that a boiling tank has to be expensive. I found that I could make one on the cheap by using sheet steel, steel pop rivets and RTV copper to seal the ends.
I made the tank out of a piece of 36" light gauge steel sheet, having cut off a strip to use as a lid and another bit to use as end plates. Using a crescent wrench and patience to make the bends in the sides of the lid and for the end plates, then drilled holes, rtv'd and pop-riveted the ends on. Perched over two burners on my kitchen stove, it gets to a boil soon enough and I rust blued an antique shotgun bbl with it handily.

+1 on Pilkington's rust blue, nice stuff.

Bullogger

Here is a picture.
http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo278/TigerAlex/Gun%20Stuff/IMG_1033.jpg (http://s383.photobucket.com/user/TigerAlex/media/Gun%20Stuff/IMG_1033.jpg.html)

[johnson1942]

thanks guys for follow up on rust blue. i suspect their are a lot of good rust blue products out their. one time to do a rifle barrel i went to the local farm store and bought a chicken feeding tray. put it on the stove sideways across two burners filled it with boiling water and layed my rifle barrel that was rustfinished in it. turned the two burners on under the chicken galvanized feeding tray and boiled away. turned out real good.your right one doent have to have a expensive set up to do a good job. as soon as i get a barrel back from the barrel make soon ill rust blue it in my oven. i keep takeing it out with a clean cotton mitt and lay it cross ways on two two by fours on top of the stove and swab it down with mark lee. after about 10 coats i put in a pvc pipe filled with boiling water for a spell. they always come out dark blue black. saves a lot of dollars and just as good as sending away to hot blue.

[Skunk1]

Thanks for all the replies. I might help with the file trick as I'm starting to feel sorry for the poor girl. She is at it when she has time and just goes to town with no complaints. Never tried it before but sounds like an interesting option. I would imagine I need to used a very fine file. Cheap gun so not to worried about ruining a expensive gun. More about her having the memory of doing this with her old man.

[Skunk1]

seabolt, I respectfully disagree that a boiling tank has to be expensive. I found that I could make one on the cheap by using sheet steel, steel pop rivets and RTV copper to seal the ends.
I made the tank out of a piece of 36" light gauge steel sheet, having cut off a strip to use as a lid and another bit to use as end plates. Using a crescent wrench and patience to make the bends in the sides of the lid and for the end plates, then drilled holes, rtv'd and pop-riveted the ends on. Perched over two burners on my kitchen stove, it gets to a boil soon enough and I rust blued an antique shotgun bbl with it handily.

+1 on Pilkington's rust blue, nice stuff.

Bullogger

Here is a picture.
http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo278/TigerAlex/Gun%20Stuff/IMG_1033.jpg (http://s383.photobucket.com/user/TigerAlex/media/Gun%20Stuff/IMG_1033.jpg.html)

That I know how to do been making all my own vent boxes for my old house. Might have to read up on this.

[tomme boy]

When I used to put mausers together with barrels from Midway, I used the paste on a very warm barrel. Then I would rinse it off with warm water and let it hang. I wanted it to rust. I would let it hang for a day. Then use 0000 steel wool and oil to buff off the rust. Degrease the barrel and repeat this till the barrel was almost as good as a factory barrel. Here is a pic of one of them I did.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v21/tommeboy/DSC01013_edited.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/tommeboy/media/DSC01013_edited.jpg.html)

This was a 257 Roberts.

[phaessler]

Oxpho blue paste , well it seems like a gel to me. But heat it up, degrease it hot to the touch, and have at it, the more you card it off with steel wool, the deeper it gets. Have used it on cold blue, touch-ups, refinishing old iron sights, and tooling.
Pete

[blaser.306]

I found what I beleive to be oxpho blue in it's concentrated form! I used it on the adapter that Illinois Coyote hunter wanted. The concentrate is mixed with 9 parts distilled water then applied as it is , or you can heat the solution to I beleive the sheet says 80 degrees and or heat the part to 120. 5 minutes in the solution and then coat with the sealer ( I beleive it to be turpentine ) and let dry. Repeat the soaking if darker coloring is desired. I did one treatment and it turned the steel a very nice BLACK . The kits are available in the US from Caswell's I think the kit to make 1.25 gallons costs $60.00 us. These are pics of the parts I used this on, One of the pics the flash "washed" the blackness (sp) away some.

[flounderman]

the mark lee rust blue is the way to go.