Radiator Mystery

[wch]

My wife's car is a 2008 Saturn Vue AWD SUV with about 75,000 miles on the clock; a few days ago after a short drive, the car lost all of the coolant and we had it towed to the dealer where we bought the car in 2009, new, with about 25 miles on it.

I got a call today and the service manager told me that "the bottom third" of the radiator had separated and that was what caused the loss of coolant. (He told me that they had tested the water pump and the hoses and that they were alright.)

He also mentioned that the air dam below the radiator was unharmed, but that "some impact, maybe ice or road obstruction" had caused the initial damage and that time and use had caused the radiator to fail.

So, my question is this: how could some unknown impact cause the radiator to suffer a catastrophic failure without damaging the air dam or some other part of the engine (oil pan, for example)?

My suspicion is that the radiator in this automobile is not sufficiently supported and that's the cause of the problem.

Any input from those knowledgeable will be appreciated.

[bhn22]

Search the net for reports of other people having the same issue. If your suspicion is correct, you'll find that almost all cars of this make and model that year have had radiator failures.

[Littleton Shot Maker]

Last week I walked into the shop and saw green stuff on the floor under my MG, it has been there all year , not run it 6 months and yes radiator has failed , while sitting there, from old age??

More troubles, while warming up my car ( second car) to get it emission test by the state, sitting there, minding my own, I HEAR thunk, pop, hisssssss. Fan (yes fan- plastic ****) exploded and sent chunks right into the radiator.

"It happens"??

[Bad Water Bill]

Your radiator core is metal(copper aluminum ?) but a long time back they started holding everything together with a PLASTIC framework.

It does not take much for that to snap in cold weather.

Of course the manufacturer is not at fault because his inferior product failed. You should not have been driving it at that time, don't you know.

Yes I have had to buy a new one because the cement the manufacturer used to hold the 2 pieces on top together failed.

[dagger dog]

wch,

Wouldn't be a bad idea to replace the thermostat along with the radiator, and have them check the thermostatic radiator fan electrical circuit, it may have stuck shut caused high pressure and popped the radiator, or the fans may not be coming on when needed.

The newer style radiators are plastic tanks and aluminum cores that are crimped together, doesn't take much to damage one. I've seen many blown apart from stuck t-stats.

[GabbyM]

Air dam is still OK because it's plastic and flexes. Radiators don't take to kindly to getting flexed.

[Rustyleee]

wch,

Wouldn't be a bad idea to replace the thermostat along with the radiator, and have them check the thermostatic radiator fan electrical circuit, it may have stuck shut caused high pressure and popped the radiator, or the fans may not be coming on when needed.

The newer style radiators are plastic tanks and aluminum cores that are crimped together, doesn't take much to damage one. I've seen many blown apart from stuck t-stats.

Yep, plastic tanks on aluminum tubes. Not like they used to be. My first first job out of school was working in a radiator shop in 1970... Back then we used to boil the radiators in muratic acid to get out the deposits then solder the holes and repaint them. Good as new. No way you could do that today. Remove and replace is the order of the day.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

The newer style radiators are plastic tanks and aluminum cores that are crimped together, doesn't take much to damage one.

Yep CRIMPED ! they've been doing this for a couple decades, I tend to drive older beaters. I'd seen several that leak at the crimp...there is typically a gasket between the plastic and the aluminum...Yep Gaskets fail after 200K+ miles...or if there was some impact causing it to flex...the air dam flexes, the radiator flexes, and the crimps weaken and start leaking. Luckily the new aftermarket radiators are cheap !
Good Luck,
Jon

[Bad Water Bill]

Yep CRIMPED ! they've been doing this for a couple decades, I tend to drive older beaters. I'd seen several that leak at the crimp...there is typically a gasket between the plastic and the aluminum...Yep Gaskets fail after 200K+ miles...or if there was some impact causing it to flex...the air dam flexes, the radiator flexes, and the crimps weaken and start leaking. Luckily the new aftermarket radiators are cheap !
Good Luck,
Jon

The part may be cheap but the "CERTIFIED MECHANIC" is not.

Last night I was told that dealers are now refusing to sell certain parts unless you are a C. M. and can prove it.:twisted:

[wch]

Well fellers, that answers my questions and I thank all of you for the information!
I will check to see if they replaced the thermostat and checked the radiator fan circuit.
Thanks to all of you who answered.

[starmac]

The part may be cheap but the "CERTIFIED MECHANIC" is not.

Last night I was told that dealers are now refusing to sell certain parts unless you are a C. M. and can prove it.:twisted:
Bill ,That must be one of those Chiraq things. lol I work on a lot of vehicles and have never heard of this, and we are talking from the smallest (hate) to heavy equipment.

[Bad Water Bill]

Sorry not Chiraq THIS TIME.:)

It came from Atlanta Ga.

Believe it or not I DO know a few decent folks despite rumors that say otherwise.:bigsmyl2:

[tommag]

I replaced a radiator on my freightliner myself, (plastic and aluminum) and didn't replace the rubber mount. It failed in about one year. Not sure about other radiators, but always replace any rubber vibration mounts.

[bhn22]

Tell me you didn't have the dealer replace the radiator with a factory unit. The factory didn't even make the radiator that was in the car originally, they bought it from one of the numerous radiator manufacturers or importers.

[bhn22]

The part may be cheap but the "CERTIFIED MECHANIC" is not.

Last night I was told that dealers are now refusing to sell certain parts unless you are a C. M. and can prove it.:twisted:

So there are no Carquests, OReillys, Auto Zones, NAPAs, etc anymore? No internet?

[Bad Water Bill]

There are only so many parts ANY parts place can carry and still stay in business. The dealers do not STOCK most parts, they order them out from a central warehouse.

When I worked at a Sears garage I had my own little black book so I could purchase from folks at the major supply house.

If I ordered from the dealer it would take 2-3 days and cost $$$$.

Call the friend and dropped off the same day at the same price a dealer would pay.

[wch]

Tell me you didn't have the dealer replace the radiator with a factory unit. The factory didn't even make the radiator that was in the car originally, they bought it from one of the numerous radiator manufacturers or importers.

Nope, the dealer got the new radiator from a parts house, not GM.

[bhn22]

Nope, the dealer got the new radiator from a parts house, not GM.

Good deal! Glad you're up and running again!

[geargnasher]

Aluminum/plastic radiators, particularly ones built to the spec and price point of "domestic" brands, are pure junk. So are most of the replacements. Hey, it made it out of warranty, didn't it? It did exactly what it was designed to do, get the vehicle off the showroom floor for a profit and not come back during the warranty responsibility period. Sorry to be so cynical, but really that's the way it is. I see a LOT fewer heater core and cooling system failures of import brand vehicles from both Europe and Japan than the "big three", but generally they cost more, too. Glad you got it fixed and didn't drive it until the engine locked up like so many people do...wish I had a dollar for every Chernobyled engine I've seen that came with the story of "well, the temp needle was only pegged out for a few minutes and I thought I could make it home".

Gear

[NSB]

My wife's car is a 2008 Saturn Vue AWD SUV with about 75,000 miles on the clock; a few days ago after a short drive, the car lost all of the coolant and we had it towed to the dealer where we bought the car in 2009, new, with about 25 miles on it.

I got a call today and the service manager told me that "the bottom third" of the radiator had separated and that was what caused the loss of coolant. (He told me that they had tested the water pump and the hoses and that they were alright.)

He also mentioned that the air dam below the radiator was unharmed, but that "some impact, maybe ice or road obstruction" had caused the initial damage and that time and use had caused the radiator to fail.

So, my question is this: how could some unknown impact cause the radiator to suffer a catastrophic failure without damaging the air dam or some other part of the engine (oil pan, for example)?

My suspicion is that the radiator in this automobile is not sufficiently supported and that's the cause of the problem.

Any input from those knowledgeable will be appreciated.

Well, so far you haven't gotten very many good answers. A lot of guessing and misinformation going on here. I worked for General Motors for thirty-three years in the original equipment radiator manufacturing area in quality and five more years after that for Ford/Visteon making aftermarket radiators. Be assured that plastic/aluminum radiators are head and shoulders in quality above the copper brass radiators that preceded them. There is no comparison in longevity and durability. I'm not sure what you mean by "the bottom third of the radiator separated". The aluminum core on the radiator is brazed together and doesn't just separate after 75,000 miles. It can get over pressured and the aluminum fins can collapse causing it to overheat due to loss of airflow. If nothing in front of the radiator core is damaged then it's unlikely that it was damaged from a road hazard. If "the bottom third collapsed" means the convoluted air fins between the tubes became detached from the tubes then that's a result of a bad braze when the radiator was manufactured. These fins are supposed to be 95% brazed to the tubes. If less than that they can be easily separated from some over pressurization but would almost certainly caused overheating from the time you got the vehicle. The thermostat isn't the only cause of overheating. You can also have a bad hose that is collapsing going into the radiator which will restrict the water flow. This can be checked by squeezing the hose. You can tell if it's too soft by doing this. There are other causes as well but I've just pointed out a couple. Send me a pic if you have one and I'll give you my opinion as to what may have happened. I've seen thousands and thousands of defective radiators while working in aftermarket and I got pretty good at analyzing them. Unfortunately, you're out of warranty at this point I believe. Did Saturn have over a 60,000 mile warranty?

[wch]

I have been told by the service manager that the car is out of warranty.
Thanks, and if I can get a picture of the radiator I'll send it to you.

[NSB]

Just a couple of other questions about the failure. Did this happen on a very cold morning? One much colder than the vehicle has been exposed to in the past? Second, has the coolant been changed since you got the vehicle and has anyone added water to the coolant? In order for it to leak, it needs to have more than crushed fins due to overpressurization. In rare circumstances the rubber gasket that seals the plastic tank to the radiator header can move out of position in a very cold temprature situation. Radiators expand and contract due to the flow of heated coolant through the unit. I've seen gaskets out of position cause a leak. I've seen this more on Fords than GM vehicles due to the difference in gasket designs. If the coolant was changed, or fluid added, the coolant may not have been checked correctly. Too much or too little coolant ratio to water can cause a problem. Water alone is a very poor thing to add to top off a radiator. If the ratio isn't correct it changes the boiling point. Just for information purposes only, an aluminum radiator, properly maintained, will last the entire life of the vehicle. Failure is usually pretty immediate if it's going to fail. Time is on your side if it's maintained. As for the fan causing the damage...the condenser is between the radiator and the fan blades. Ice or a bird can hit it if the grill design has large openings. Actually need the unit to get exact cause but a picture may show enough to determine the cause.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

"Radiator Mystery"
...snip
Any input from those knowledgeable will be appreciated.
Thanks for posting this. Something I've always wanted to know about, since I've seen several failures on my Beater's.



Well, so far you haven't gotten very many good answers. A lot of guessing and misinformation going on here. I worked for General Motors for thirty-three years in the original equipment radiator manufacturing area in quality and five more years after that for Ford/Visteon making aftermarket radiators.
...snip
I agree with some of what you are saying, and I respect your many years of experience...BUT I ask, regarding vehicle service. Are we talking normal driving conditions or severe driving conditions, as most Auto maker's owners manuals talk about ? Because I speak from experience of driving on gravel roads about 20% of the time and Living in MN all the time...both seem to be defined at severe driving conditions. Will one of these great plasti-Alum radiators fail during the life of the auto in severe driving conditions ? and thanks for commenting.
Jon

[wch]

NSB,
I asked the service manager if I could see the original radiator but they had already disposed of it; I think your supposition of less then adequate workmanship during manufacture is probably correct.

[NSB]

Thanks for posting this. Something I've always wanted to know about, since I've seen several failures on my Beater's.



I agree with some of what you are saying, and I respect your many years of experience...BUT I ask, regarding vehicle service. Are we talking normal driving conditions or severe driving conditions, as most Auto maker's owners manuals talk about ? Because I speak from experience of driving on gravel roads about 20% of the time and Living in MN all the time...both seem to be defined at severe driving conditions. Will one of these great plasti-Alum radiators fail during the life of the auto in severe driving conditions ? and thanks for commenting.
Jon

Jon, I cut my eye teeth on cu/br radiators long before there were any plastic/aluminum radiators anywhere. When they developed the idea for plastic/aluminum, I like many others, felt that they were a cost cutting fad that would soon pass due to poor quality and durability. Boy, was I wrong! A copper brass radiator has literally hundreds of solder joints on each radiator. They begin to corrode as soon as they are put in a vehicle. Aluminum corrodes, but oh so slowly. There are no solder joints to break. The aluminum is either CAB brazed or vacuum brazed and the joints (tube to header) are really solid. I've made literally millions of radiators. I truly mean millions. I worked as an engineer for GM and as the quality manager for Visteon Aftermarket. We had computerized records of every warranty failure ever returned to Visteon and I personally traveled to every manufacturing plant in North America for GM to review quality problems. Aluminum radiators are so far vastly superior to cu/br that they can't even be compared. Plastic aluminum has a first time through quality in the upper 90s percentage. Co/br was in the high sixties or low seventies at best. Failure analysis shows that plastic aluminum is superior in every climate and environment. It's hard to give up old beliefs but trust me, the plastic aluminum is vastly superior. Now let me add this....in the aftermarket there are manufacturers who make inferior plastic aluminum radiators. They cut corners on materials, testing before packing, design, and a myriad of other ways to reduce the quality of their products. I won't mention brands since I don't want to start a flame war or antagonize any manufacturer but they are out there. If you are buying an aftermarket brand, get one with a good reputation.

[NSB]

NSB,
I asked the service manager if I could see the original radiator but they had already disposed of it; I think your supposition of less then adequate workmanship during manufacture is probably correct.

I suspect that the bottom third of the radiator had a poor bond of fins/air centers to tube and caused an overheating condition. Odd that they got rid of the unit so quick. Hope you got a good reputable replacement unit. Good luck.

[shooterg]

The aluminumn seems to work fine. The plastic cracks or the "Crimp" joining the plastic tanks to the rest starts leaking on all I've had, usually over 140,000. Tried to epoxy one but after antifreeze has been on plastic, couldn't make anything stay. Kinda liked it when I could just solder away on the old ones - made me feel like I accomplished something when it quit leaking(for a while !).
Guess I'll be OK if the cheap replacememts make it another 140,000.

[Mal Paso]

The Brass Radiator in my Power Wagon is 62 years old. Brass Toyota Radiator 29 years. I can't imagine Plastic/Aluminum lasting a fraction of that. I've seen lots in the shop because the plastic tank broke. Mostly cheap American cars like Gear said.

[Bad Water Bill]

I occasionally see my 1929 Model A tooling down the road.

Yup same dent in the left body and same mashed fins in the radiator.

It was the original stuff when I bought it in 61 so that junky old radiator is still going strong on I-80 after ? years and ? many miles.

Sure wish we made JUNK like that today.:bigsmyl2:

And you did repair it all by yourself.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Jon, I cut my eye teeth on cu/br radiators long before there were any plastic/aluminum radiators anywhere. When they developed the idea for plastic/aluminum, I like many others, felt that they were a cost cutting fad that would soon pass due to poor quality and durability. Boy, was I wrong! A copper brass radiator has literally hundreds of solder joints on each radiator. They begin to corrode as soon as they are put in a vehicle. Aluminum corrodes, but oh so slowly. There are no solder joints to break. The aluminum is either CAB brazed or vacuum brazed and the joints (tube to header) are really solid. I've made literally millions of radiators. I truly mean millions. I worked as an engineer for GM and as the quality manager for Visteon Aftermarket. We had computerized records of every warranty failure ever returned to Visteon and I personally traveled to every manufacturing plant in North America for GM to review quality problems. Aluminum radiators are so far vastly superior to cu/br that they can't even be compared. Plastic aluminum has a first time through quality in the upper 90s percentage. Co/br was in the high sixties or low seventies at best. Failure analysis shows that plastic aluminum is superior in every climate and environment. It's hard to give up old beliefs but trust me, the plastic aluminum is vastly superior. Now let me add this....in the aftermarket there are manufacturers who make inferior plastic aluminum radiators. They cut corners on materials, testing before packing, design, and a myriad of other ways to reduce the quality of their products. I won't mention brands since I don't want to start a flame war or antagonize any manufacturer but they are out there. If you are buying an aftermarket brand, get one with a good reputation.

I respectfully disagree...but all I have is some sparse experience and my gut feel, while you surely have the many years of industry experience.

So I would concede that you must be correct about first run test failure results. But I disagree that Alum/Plastic are more reliable in severe driving conditions.

Lastly, If and when there is a failure, most anyone who is successful at casting, reloading, and shooting their own boolits will, no doubt, be able to repair a Cu/Br radiator for the cost of their own labor, whereas the alternative is buying a $100+ aftermarket radiator.
That's my 2¢
Jon

[NSB]

I respectfully disagree...but all I have is some sparse experience and my gut feel, while you surely have the many years of industry experience.

So I would concede that you must be correct about first run test failure results. But I disagree that Alum/Plastic are more reliable in severe driving conditions.

Lastly, If and when there is a failure, most anyone who is successful at casting, reloading, and shooting their own boolits will, no doubt, be able to repair a Cu/Br radiator for the cost of their own labor, whereas the alternative is buying a $100+ aftermarket radiator.
That's my 2¢
Jon

When I retired from GM and went to work for Ford/Visteon aftermarket climate control products I was exposed to a whole new world of radiator usage and repair. I visited hundreds of repair shops, distribution center, parts stores, etc. Visteon was building radiators for every make and year of manufacturer. I'd go places that had full time repairmen fixing radiators. What I heard and saw was mountains of copper brass rads being repaired and very few aluminum. The thing about copper brass radiators being repaired reminded my about the guy who bought the hatchet that George Washington used to chop down the cherry tree. Someone asked the guy if it was actually the hatchet George used. He answered "yes it is. The handle was replaced twice and the head once but it's definately the hatchet he used". Most copper brass radiator repair involved replacing the core or one or both tanks. It's hard to call that a repair. On newer rads the tube to header leaks could often be soldered and repaired fairly easily. Aluminum radiators holding up under extreme use? Almost all race cars today use them and it's not just for weight savings. I had customers who built race car radiators and would only use aluminum. I had suppliers from all over the world. I ended up making some very good friends from South Africa and South America. Do you know what radiators hold up best in South Africa? Aluminum. How harsh is that climate. It's hard to even imagine how many radiators were built while I was working for GM, Ford/Visteon, and another very large aftermarket producer of climate control products...Transpro (now VistaPro). The number is in the hundreds of millions. Numbers that big just don't lie. It's more than an impression I got from limited experience. Can a really old copper brass radiator still be on the road? Sure, but understand that those radiators weren't build like the copper brass radiators that were produced from the 1950s onward. Most were downflow rads and were hand built with very heavy materials. Very much unlike anything in use in later years. I appreciate everyone's experience but I've got to go with what I've seen over the last 47 years in the business. Aluminum is a much better bet for long term durability. Again, not all aftermarket radiators are built equal. Some aftermarket plastic aluminum are pure junk. Different plastic, less material, poor reverse engineering (the biggest reason), and poor process control.

[wch]

NSB:
Thank you for the tutorial on radiators; I am always amazed at the expertise our members demonstrate, and their willingness to answer some very esoteric questions.

[Blammer]

I get all of my radiators at Autozone with the lifetime warrenty. I make sure to photocopy my reciept so I have a copy of it, as the original is heat paper and tends to fade.

Yep all crimped, mostly made of plastic, fail constantly.

[NSB]

I get all of my radiators at Autozone with the lifetime warrenty. I make sure to photocopy my reciept so I have a copy of it, as the original is heat paper and tends to fade.

Yep all crimped, mostly made of plastic, fail constantly.
Like I said, some of the aftermarket radiators are junk. Autozone doesn't make radiators, they buy them and resell them. They don't even buy them all from one source. You can't believe how many companies are out there making radiators. I've seen radiators that were produced by aftermarket companies that failed at 100% on some models. Most of these companies actually don't even understand how a radiator needs to be built. They reverse engineer and if it looks like a radiator on the outside they assume it's OK to put in a vehicle. Most of them don't even have degreed engineers working for them. They hire designers to copy OE units and they don't even know what the critical dimensions are and how things work to keep them from leaking.If they're all failing guess what they're buying if they're all failing? Not the good stuff. You don't buy a good radiator for a hundred bucks. You get junk. I could actually write a book on quality control and reverse engineering automotive climate control products. It's a **** shoot on what comes out of the box.

[dagger dog]

Well, so far you haven't gotten very many good answers. A lot of guessing and misinformation going on here. I worked for General Motors for thirty-three years in the original equipment radiator manufacturing area in quality and five more years after that for Ford/Visteon making aftermarket radiators. Be assured that plastic/aluminum radiators are head and shoulders in quality above the copper brass radiators that preceded them. There is no comparison in longevity and durability. I'm not sure what you mean by "the bottom third of the radiator separated". The aluminum core on the radiator is brazed together and doesn't just separate after 75,000 miles. It can get over pressured and the aluminum fins can collapse causing it to overheat due to loss of airflow. If nothing in front of the radiator core is damaged then it's unlikely that it was damaged from a road hazard. If "the bottom third collapsed" means the convoluted air fins between the tubes became detached from the tubes then that's a result of a bad braze when the radiator was manufactured. These fins are supposed to be 95% brazed to the tubes. If less than that they can be easily separated from some over pressurization but would almost certainly caused overheating from the time you got the vehicle. The thermostat isn't the only cause of overheating. You can also have a bad hose that is collapsing going into the radiator which will restrict the water flow. This can be checked by squeezing the hose. You can tell if it's too soft by doing this. There are other causes as well but I've just pointed out a couple. Send me a pic if you have one and I'll give you my opinion as to what may have happened. I've seen thousands and thousands of defective radiators while working in aftermarket and I got pretty good at analyzing them. Unfortunately, you're out of warranty at this point I believe. Did Saturn have over a 60,000 mile warranty?


I would enjoy any automotive engineer to work with me for a month !

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

NSB,
thanks for the detailed replies. you have convinced me, Next time I need a radiator, I'm going to be pricing a Visteon.

[tomme boy]

Isn't there a special antifreeze to use in the aluminum radiators? I seem to remember when they first started to use the alum rad. that a lot of them failed because of the wrong antifreeze.

[NSB]

Isn't there a special antifreeze to use in the aluminum radiators? I seem to remember when they first started to use the alum rad. that a lot of them failed because of the wrong antifreeze.

You definately have to use a special antifreeze or you will have a failure over time. When I was the quality manager for Visteon Aftermarket we'd get installers calling up and complaining that the radiators they bought from us were failing after a year or two in the vehicle. When I asked if they were using new antifreeze formulated for aluminum radiators and flushing the system prior to installation they would say no, the customer wouldn't put up with paying for a system flush and they usually captured and reused the antifreeze already in the system. They wanted us to give them another radiator for free based on our lifetime warranty. It was a difficult battle to get them to realize we couldn't keep giving them new radiators and let them ruin them by reusing old, and improperly formulated coolant. The customer was just going to have to pay for the complete job if they wanted the warranty. Probably why a lot of people keep putting a new aluminum radiator in their vehicle and saying they don't last. When you put a new radiator in you need to flush the system and use the proper antifreeze.

[NSB]

NSB,
thanks for the detailed replies. you have convinced me, Next time I need a radiator, I'm going to be pricing a Visteon.
After I left Visteon they merged with Transpro (I worked for both companies at different times) and moved to Mexico. I'm not sure at this time if their quality is the same as it was when they were located in Buffalo, NY. It may be and it may not be. A lot gets lost in these moves. A lot. I'd recommend always asking the installer what his experience has been with the different brands. If you're doing it yourself it's kind of a **** shoot what the results are going to be. The OE radiator is always going to be the best unit but it costs two or three times as much to buy. See my post response about coolant and you'll find out why a lot of people have bad luck with aluminum radiators. A lot of their problems are self inflicted. We haven't even discussed electrolysis yet.....another self inflicted failure mode.

[dagger dog]

Isn't there a special antifreeze to use in the aluminum radiators? I seem to remember when they first started to use the alum rad. that a lot of them failed because of the wrong antifreeze.

Yes ,it's orange in color GM calls it DeX-Cool, it is silica free and shouldn't be mixed with the green, I'm not a chemist but I do follow guidelines set by the manufacturers . There are several coolants that are safe to mix with either types.

But Ford runs regular green in their cars.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Yes ,it's orange in color GM calls it DeX-Cool, it is silica free and shouldn't be mixed with the green, I'm not a chemist but I do follow guidelines set by the manufacturers . There are several coolants that are safe to mix with either types.

But Ford runs regular green in their cars.

I am honestly NOT trying to be a Smart *** here, but I have heard you can mix the orange into the green, but not the Green into the Orange.

[bhn22]

And the antifreeze I buy is marked "safe for aluminum radiators". My mechanic worked for GM dealers for decades. The first thing he does when he buys one is drain the Dexcool, flush the system, and replace it with ethylene glycol (green). He maintains that Dexcool is evil, and should never have been used. There is a great deal of information on the internet to support this position.

[firefly1957]

I have two Impala's a 2001 and a 2003 the DEXCOOL in the 01 turned to a gel and over heated. I flushed it out at about 80,000 miles and put green in car had 240K on it now running well radiator no leaks . That overheat cause a slight warp in the heads with needed to be repaired by the way. Both cars have had the green "mix with any color antifreeze now and get driven a lot on dirt roads the 03 is at 190 K did need a new water pump and thermostat this year everything else under the hood except plugs coils and plug wires is original.