158gr 9mm mold?

[wlc]

Anyone make one? If not which 38/357 mold would be best suited? I tried loading some dummy rounds from my Lee 358-158RF sized down to .356. My barrel didn't like the profile of it. Wanting some heavy boolits for shooting through my suppressor.

[Outpost75]

The problem with loading bullets as heavy as 158 grains in the 9mm, is that to stay within maximum overall cartridge length to fit in the magazine, the bullet base protrudes deeply enough into the case that it impinges against the case body, where the area below the normal bullet base begins to thicken. In factory subsonic rounds they either use a different case taper to prevent the bullet base from bulging the case body, or they use a bevel base of shallow angle to mitigate the impingement.

A 147-grain cast bullet with long nose and short body works well with 3.2 to 3.5 grains of Bullseye.

[wlc]

I've got a MP molds 147 grainer that I load with 231 and Am Select, but was just toying around with the idea of 158grainers. Fiochii makes a 158gr 9mm load, I've never laid eyes on them, but just wondered if there was a 9mm mold or a 38/357 that would be suitable in that weight.

[SP5315]

I have a couple of Lyman manuals somewhere around here that have some information on using the Lyman 358311 mold for 9mm. If someone else doesn't come up with it first, I'll try to locate it for you in the morning. I've never tried it myself, my thinking runs along the lines of Outpost75's

[DRNurse1]

Help me understand how an extra 10 grains of alloy has enough effect on the performance of the round to justify the effort. I advocate putting the biggest piece of alloy possible on the target, but for the additional 10 grains, I would switch to 357, then add another 20 or so.

[6bg6ga]

I have had good results with a 160 RN 38/357 mold. I tried the 158 SWC and they don't feed in any 9MM that I tried.

[Sgtonory]

I have had success with a lee TL358 158lrn. The issue i had was getting OAL to feed and not swaging down the boolit. First attempt caused tumbeling. I solved this by useing a lyman M die for a 357. I set it to where it would just slightly buldge the case and would still chamber in my gun. I used around 3g of BE for a fps of 950 our of a 16 inch Hi-point 995. Once the boolit was not being swaged i had good accuracy and no FTF.

[gefiltephish]

Because of it's very generous throat area, my LC9 can handle this AM 36-160H bullet (http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=36-160H-D.png). As I recall, the oal is set to just fit in the mags. I believe I used BE but won't venture a guess at the charge. I certainly wouldn't recommend buying this mold for use in 9mm, I just happened to have had it on hand (for 38/357). There is no way this bullet would chamber into my XD9 or P938 without seating deeply into the case taper and swaging. No thanks.

Surprisingly it shot very well from the little Ruger. I was expecting the POI to be way off, but I don't recall there being any significant difference (at 7yds).

[bhn22]

I've had success with Lyman 358311, and 358156 (without gaschecks) in 9mm. I know it sounds old-fashioned, but I loaded them with Bullseye. They fed reliably and shot well from a Springfield XD, and a Beretta PX9.

[dkf]

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-160S-D.png


I have this mold which I use for .357sig. Drops around 151gr.
http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=35-147S-D.png

[jayjay1]

Hello everybody,
that´s exactly what I´m looking for right now!
The bullet should have a long nose, with a flat ogive I suppose, so that the bullet can be set out as far as the Mag does allow it.

Unfortunately I have a CZ with a shorter chamber.
Because of the low velocity, I think it should work without a GC.

I would prefer a Lee too, because if it doesn´t work, I didn´t spend to much money for the try.

@Sgtonory:
Did you use the SWC or the 2R?




By the way:
I´m just new here on board, but couldn´t find a "newbie" section to introduce myself.
Would be great, if someone could show me that.

[jayjay1]

Really nobody?
:cry:

Well then, did anyone use the Lee "tumble lube" (TL) bullet profile in this subject and downsize it to .356"?
I´m wondering because of the driving bands, being interrested in trying the Lee TL358-158-2R (#90319).

Help would be great.
:drinks:

[bobthenailer]

Saeco #910- 150gr rn made for the 9mm & 38 super.

[mexicanjoe]

I've shot both SWC and LRN in my Ruger P-85 and had no problems. I have a 358311 mold by Lyman and a 158 gr TL SWC by Lee, both sized to .357. If I find the load info I will post. Good accuracy but hits a little high. Ie also hollow pointed a 358311 & found it shoots very well.

[bhn22]

Lymans 356637?, the 147 gr bullet usually weighs about 153 as cast for me. If you have a barrel throat issue, this could shut your project down unless you have your barrel throated. The bullets obviously need to physically fit in the gun.

[jayjay1]

Well, I´ve shot 153gr. ARES bullets out of this gun with quite good success, that´s why I want such a mold.

Not much space left in the case of course, but with a faster powder (Lovex D032 aka Accurate No.2) it worked very well.

Thanks for your help, I will take a look on all of these.
Best regards from Freiburg / Black Forest,
:drinks:

[bhn22]

RCBS' 140 9mm mold is very similar to that design too.

[jayjay1]

Lymans 356637?, the 147 gr bullet usually weighs about 153 as cast for me.


This comes out in .356"?

Well, that is a good point instead of the .358", which is a must to size it down.
With a little bit of luck I might tumble-lube those Lymans, which would make the production much faster.
Very important for "IPSC mass shooters"... :roll:

Just started a inquiry to Mihec from MP molds for such a 6-cav. mold.
If he can´t offer one, I think I will try the Lyman.

Thanks a lot!
Very good support for a rookie like me.
:drinks:

[MtGun44]

" instead of the .358", which is a must to size it down."

Most 9mms work best with .357 or .358 diam, not .356.

This should help.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?121737-Setting-up-for-boolits-in-a-new-9mm

Bill

[KYCaster]

Magma has a 160 gr. 38 Super mold. They'll set it up to use RCBS handles.

Jerry

[Artful]

Ares 9mm 153 grain
http://www.ipscstore.eu/782-thickbox_default/ares-bullets-9mm-153-gr.jpg

Hmm, I think before I dropped the money on a mold I'd look into buying some commercial cast
out of molds your interested in.
like this 358" 38-158 158 Grain 2-Cavity RCBS Cowboy Bullet Mould
http://www.buffaloarms.com/ThumbnailHandler.ashx?MediaID=43710&size=220
http://www.buffaloarms.com/RCBS_82305_Bullet_Mould_it-162598.aspx?CAT=4124

[MtGun44]

Your boolits look funny.

Bill

[jayjay1]

Oh, this are the Ares 153gr., but the colour changes all the time.

For the German IPSC Championship I ordered 2.000 of them, because I was running out.
When I opened the box, I got a shock, they were all pink....
:shock:

What should I do?
I loaded them and went to the race.
In my upside-down mag holsters everyone could see those pink shining bulliz and I had the laughs on my side all the time.
[smilie=1:

[jayjay1]

Hmm, I think before I dropped the money on a mold I'd look into buying some commercial cast
out of molds your interested in.


Well, yes, not a bad idea, but the shipping costs to Germany will kill me.
:roll:

[jayjay1]

Most 9mms work best with .357 or .358 diam, not .356.




Hey Bill,
I´ve read your explanation before, good stuff, my groove diameter is .355", so I want to try a .356" bullet first.

[jayjay1]

Magma has a 160 gr. 38 Super mold. They'll set it up to use RCBS handles.

Jerry

Hey Jerry,
unfortunately they only have 2 cavities, I don´t want to go under 4 cavs..

I don´t need waaaaaaaaaaaay the best precision, I just need a mass of bullets for IPSC.

As long as it can hold the A-zone on 25yds. everything is fine.


@all:
I´m waiting for an offer for a 6-cav. mold from MP molds.

[MtGun44]

Good luck with .356, some folks do have success with it, and I have a Browning HP which
will work well with .356, but most of the rest of my 9mms prefer larger and the HP likes .357 or .358
just as well and others will not work with .356, so I have standardized on .358.

Ultimately, only Mr. Target knows the answer for any particular gun and boolit combo.

Bill

[r6487]

that lyman 147 has a bevel base, if you machine out the bevel it gets real close to 158 grains

[jayjay1]

Allright,
just payed an MP mold, 6 cav., 147gr., .356", RNF - profile, with one fat gap, BB, aluminium.

I will let machine out the BB and take a look what it´s good for.
:roll:


THANKS TO ALL OF YOU!
:drinks:

[Artful]

So jayjay1, any trials yet? Oh, and it's dropping too small check out the dry tumble powder coating section to fatten 'em up.

[Shiloh]

I use the LEE 125 gr. RF in the 9mm.

For the 158 gr. boolit, it will have to be seated DEEP. my concern would be a pressure spike. The next issue is brass. some 9mm brass is quite thick and heavy. Further increasing pressure.

Shiloh

[tazman]

I came across a Lee 6 cavity mold in .356-153-rn designed for the 9mm(mold is discontinued). The way the boolit is designed has only .345 of the boolit inside the case which is about the same as the 120 tc. OAL is 1.145. It is the longest load I have found that feeds and functions perfectly in my 9mm.
Accuracy is superb.

[jayjay1]

Well, the MP mold drops out at 145gr..

Accuracy is excellent so far, I don´t look any further right now.

But if a usefull mold comes my way....

The ARES 153gr. have a head form, that allows to seat them way out too.
They fly very accurate too and are really soft to shot with a faster powder, even above any factor.

[jayjay1]

Feedback!

Well, the 145gr. 6-cav. MP mold is just a dream.
The bullets are very equal and constant and it drops smoothly out of all 6 cavs, I just have to open the mold quickly.

I do now calibrate them to .357" and accuracy is top notch too.
Everything wonderful so far, but - I can´t gain that effect of an oversoft recoil which is possible with the ARES 153gr. for example.

Just this 10gr. mean really a lot in performance.
Therefore I´m willing to try the LEE RNFP .358"/158gr.

Would someone of you be so kind and measure the total length of the bullet, please?
:oops:

[tazman]

According to the Lee web site, it measures .630 inches.
Distance from the nose to the crimp groove is .360

[jayjay1]

Thank you tazman,
didn´t find that.

:oops:

[tazman]

If you click on the link to the mold description, the data is listed there for most of the boolits.

[jayjay1]

Well, I see, thank you.

Funny, I´ve measured some ARES 153gr. color coated bullets, and they are longer although they are lighter.
They are 0,677".

There ogive is more flat and the nose is longer.
Hm, I think the LEE bullets can´t be seated out that far, so they will get deaper into the case.

Wth, I´ll give it a try, will work or not.
:smile:

[tazman]

I tried the Lee 150 1R boolit in my 9mm with mixed results. it dropped from my mold at 155 grains and .357 diameter. It fed ok but there was so much boolit inside the case that you couldn't use much powder hence velocities were slow.
For a plinker it would be ok. Very soft shooting but not so much power. I may try it again since I put a different barrel in my 9mm.

[Artful]

with the heavy boolits your only going to get 850 to 900 fps safely - that's why I use them - subsonic speeds with power to function the action.

[tazman]

with the heavy boolits your only going to get 850 to 900 fps safely - that's why I use them - subsonic speeds with power to function the action.

I know. I have been working with heavy boolits in the 9mm a lot lately with lots of success. It's just that particular boolit. I don't think it even made 750fps. Not sure because I didn't chrono it but it felt very slow. When I started to bump up the powder the accuracy fell apart.
It really wasn't designed with the 9mm in mind so it shouldn't be surprising. I have other heavy designs that work very well.

[jayjay1]

Well, I will see how it does.

The 153gr. ARES were one of the best bullets out of my niners ever.
Subonic, smooth, accurate, all plates are falling, holding the factor without a doubt, close to perfection.
:smile:
But I want to do my own, so...

If I have to seat the LEE bullet to deep and it will bulk the case I still can sell it or do some bullets for my buddy who is a revoler-hero (which is not mine).

[Artful]

JayJay1 - Can you do all the measurements on the Ares boolit and post them up here?
are your .356, .357, .358? - are your bevel base?
It's nice their website show their mix ((approx. 92% lead, 6% antimony, 2% tin))

I'm wondering if we can get interest in a group buy as powder coating is
something gaining in popularity as is subsonic 35 caliber shootin.

[Outpost75]

I use Accurate 36-155D with good results in my 9mm Ruger revolver. You can order it in a smaller diameter to fit your autopistol, but the .357 forepart with tolerance negative fits typical 9mm NATO chambers well. Picture displays on my editor, but not when I go back and view the thread. Link to Accurate catalog doesn't pick up the image so something is wrong, you will have to look it up yourself. Bullet is rounded flat-nose with 0.21 meplat, 155-grains, bevel-based with .245" distance base-to-crimp groove, 0.61" overall length.

109989

[jayjay1]

Yiiiiihaaaaaaaa!
:D

http://abload.de/thumb/img_4776d0kyu.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=img_4776d0kyu.jpg)

http://abload.de/thumb/img_478353j0b.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=img_478353j0b.jpg)


Pretty in pink!


@artful:
I´m really very interested in coating bullets, but there is soooooo much information about it, that I can´t find a short and useful description about it.
Could you show one?

[Artful]

I like this thread for shake and bake method
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?240500-a-trick-for-tumble-powder-coating

You'll need the following

a plastic container with lid made with #5 material
- Cool Whip containers most popular but sour cream works as well. As long as the 5 is inside the triangle on the bottom

Black Plastic BB's, I'm using 6mm .25 grams Crosman High impact precision BB's

Powder Coating powder - Harbor Freight Red seems to be cheapest

Fresh cast lead projectiles that have not be contaminated by running your paws thru them like gold coins.

Latex Gloves

Baking sheet w/ parchment or non-stick aluminium foil to cover it.

Now take the cool whip bowl - put in some boolits - pour in enough BB's to cover the bottom container and the boolits and put in 3-4 tables spoons of the powder coating powder and put the lid on the container.

You should now swirl like crazy for ~30 seconds.
And then you SHAKE up and down REAL hard, like shaking a salad dressing bottle, for another ~30 seconds.
Hold onto the lid or it will pop off and you will have a real mess!
If you don't have enough BB's the boolits rub against themselves knocking off the powder.

Now put on the latex gloves and remove the boolits
Put the boolits on a sheet covered in parchment paper.
slide the sheet pan into an oven and set the temp for 400 deg F (205 deg C)
and set a timer for 20 min. When the timer goes off take the sheet out and
let the boolits cool (you can dump them into water to harden)
then load as normal
If their is no Harbor Freight try ordering from Smoke4320 (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?29775-Smoke4320)
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?241259-Hi-quality-Powder-for-DT-or-Spraying-bullets
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=104413&d=1403162761&thumb=1
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107699&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1403163090
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107700&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1403163090
OR - just go visit any powder coating shops and talk to them about it
you want powder that is attracted by weak electro static charges.
If you do multiple colors just get a separate cool whip container for each.

[Artful]

Bullet is rounded flat-nose with 0.21 meplat, 155-grains, bevel-based with .245" distance base-to-crimp groove, 0.61" overall length.
http://www.accuratemolds.com/img/bullets/detail/36-155D-D.png

[Artful]

Actually I notice Accurate has several molds that just may be the ticket for powder coated
http://www.accuratemolds.com/img/bullets/detail/35-147Y-D.png
http://www.accuratemolds.com/img/bullets/detail/35-147Z-D.png
http://www.accuratemolds.com/img/bullets/detail/35-150R-D.png
http://www.accuratemolds.com/img/bullets/detail/35-150Y-D.png
http://www.accuratemolds.com/img/bullets/detail/35-150Z-D.png
jay which one most closely matches the Ares you are trying to duplicate?

When powder coated they will fatten up a little more.

[jayjay1]

@Artful:
Thank you very much, for your infos.


I think some of those bullets might cause some problems to go up the ramp for having an extreme flat ogive!?

The Ares seem to have a longer and on top thinner nose.
I´m pretty sure, that the 35-150R is the closest one to the ARES.

I can send you a couple of them, if you like.
:drinks:

[Artful]

Do you have the tools to measure them?
Actually if your going to send any, you want send them to NOE or Accurate and see if they will duplicate.

[jayjay1]

Well, I tried it, but have only a mm sliding caliper.

All numbers are "roundabout"

Dia is 9,04mm
at top of the nose 5,50mm
at the bottom (- BB) 7,70mm

Total length is 17,20mm
length of the nose is 8mm
length of the cylindric area is 8mm too
length of BB is then 1,20mm.

Measured as good as I can with a normal caliper.

And again, its form pretty much looks like the 35-150R above.

[JimP.]

i shoot a glock 19 and use two 158 gr bullets, one is the fp plated berry bullet and the second is the swaged rn bullet from speer. both shoot very well at 900 - 1000 fps.....i like the 36-155d mold shown above, it should work fine. .358 diameter bullets work fine in my glock, no need to size down...JimP.

[yondering]

I like this thread for shake and bake method
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?240500-a-trick-for-tumble-powder-coating

You'll need the following

a plastic container with lid made with #5 material
- Cool Whip containers most popular but sour cream works as well. As long as the 5 is inside the triangle on the bottom

Black Plastic BB's, I'm using 6mm .25 grams Crosman High impact precision BB's

Powder Coating powder - Harbor Freight Red seems to be cheapest

Fresh cast lead projectiles that have not be contaminated by running your paws thru them like gold coins.

Latex Gloves

Baking sheet w/ parchment or non-stick aluminium foil to cover it.

Now take the cool whip bowl - put in some boolits - pour in enough BB's to cover the bottom container and the boolits and put in 3-4 tables spoons of the powder coating powder and put the lid on the container.

You should now swirl like crazy for ~30 seconds.
And then you SHAKE up and down REAL hard, like shaking a salad dressing bottle, for another ~30 seconds.
Hold onto the lid or it will pop off and you will have a real mess!
If you don't have enough BB's the boolits rub against themselves knocking off the powder.

Now put on the latex gloves and remove the boolits
Put the boolits on a sheet covered in parchment paper.
slide the sheet pan into an oven and set the temp for 400 deg F (205 deg C)
and set a timer for 20 min. When the timer goes off take the sheet out and
let the boolits cool (you can dump them into water to harden)
then load as normal


Pretty much this, except there's no need for the BB's, just leave them out, and you can use wire screen instead of aluminum foil, if you don't want flat spots on the bullets. Also, it's really a good idea to use better powder than the Harbor Freight stuff; it lasts such a long time that it doesn't make sense to buy junk powder to save $6-$8. Look for a quality TGIC Polyester powder from Powder Buy The Pound, or several different ebay sellers.

[Artful]

yondering (http://castboolits.gunloads.com/member.php?5524-yondering) - have you tried the plastic static generating BB's?
And while not all Harbor Freight powder works well with the shake and bake method I listed using the BB's the Red does seem to work pretty well.

[yondering]

Yes, I've tried the bb's. If you're tumbling enough bullets at a time (like 50-100) the BBs don't seem to do anything useful, that I can tell, and they require picking each bullet out individually.

Without bbs (and using good powder), my bullets get coated just as well, and I can dump them out without touching them. If you still have to pick the bullets out of the powder, you used way too much; I aim to have very little or no powder left after shaking them.

I do have some of the Harbor Freight red along with a bunch of other powders; the HF red is OK, but at the bottom of the pile IMO. I don't use any of the other HF powders at all.

Something interesting I discovered is when mixing that HF red with another color, like the green I like from PBTP, even if the powders are mixed beforehand, the green sticks to the bullets uniformly, and the red just sits on top in small spots. You kind of have to see it to understand, but it's an interesting demonstration of how well different powders stick. BTW the red and bright green, when mixed together right (have to tumble in red first then add green) make a cool olive drab color, that when examined closely is still flecks of bright red and green.

[jayjay1]

Powder Coating:
Thank you for your infos guys.
Unfortunately your recommended stuff isn´t available here.
But I will look forward to find something similar.

9mm heavy bullets:
@Artful:
When using such heavy bullets in the 9mm, I would take care, that they have a BB to prevent bulging cases as much as possible.

Of course it pretends too, how long your muzzle throat is and if it is the limitation or if it is the magazine.

[Artful]

Powder Coating:
Thank you for your infos guys.
Unfortunately your recommended stuff isn´t available here.
But I will look forward to find something similar.
google powder coating suppliers - they are there I promise
http://www.zinkpower.com/en/powder-coating.html
http://www.industrystock.com/html/Powder%20coating/product-result-uk-75339-0.html