Powder recommendation Please

[jreb51]

Hello all, I'm new to the casting world and I would like some help choosing a powder. I was planning to use Trail boss but I have
run out and can not find any at this time. I will be using 120gr cast bullet. I do have a Lyman cast book but don't know what powder to use.

[C. Latch]

What gun and caliber?

[jreb51]

A 1917 Eddystone 30.06

[462]

Powder selection and experimenting is just part of the process. There are two stickies that are dedicated to powders that have, historically, worked well with cast boolits and military rifles. However, that's not to say that your rifle will like them.

[C. Latch]

Have you looked here:

http://www.castpics.net/project2/CastDatalist.php

[Duckiller]

Red dot or 700X . Start at 10 gr. and gradually increase until accuracy falls off. As a practical matter any powder listed in the Lyman cast bullet hand book that you can obtain will work to some drgree or another. Big part of the fun of shooting cast boolits is finding an accurate load for your rifle. It is trial and error that only you can do. Good luck!

[uscra112]

Red Dot, Blue Dot, 2400, AA#9, AA5744, 4198, Varget, 4895 are some that I have success with in my K-31, which is close to the .30-06 in case capacity. Red Dot up to 1400 fps loads, along with AA#9 and 2400, using plain base boolits. Blue Dot has worked very well for me in loads from 1200 fps all the way up to 2200 fps using Linotype GC 170 grain boolits. AA5744 is very good also, but expensive, and does not like lighter loads. 4895 for 200-220 grain hunting boolits. Varget trial has been very limited due to a dearth of it in my locale, but it showed promise. Some long range target shooters are said to be using it.

[Pb2au]

You are in luck. There is about 26 million years of loading experience here on the 30-06. However, I would first suggest you order this book;
95472

This should be the first tool in your reloading toolbox.
To directly answer your question, it depends on what you plan on doing with the rifle.

[pworley1]

Just to add to the list. unique 3031 and 4198 are possibilities.

[ShooterAZ]

This is an excellent article about cast in military rifles. http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?13425-Cast-Bullet-Loads-for-Military-Rifles-Article

[Wayne Smith]

At this point in history, whatever you can find of the quicker pistol powders or the medium speed rifle powders can be used. See what you can find and then ask us!

[Pb2au]

^^^^^
Good point. Powder availability will determine quite a bit.
Trail boss is a viable option. The Handloader ran an article I think last year covering its use in rifles for reduced recoil loading. Its loading protocol is very straightforward.
2400 is an excellent powder also. I personally have never used it in conjunction with a 125 GRN boolit, but I am sure someone might be able to chime in on that.

[Outpost75]

(This article originally appeared in the Cast Bullet Association’s Fouling Shot magazine – used by permission of the author).

Re-visiting .30-’06 “Guard” and “Gallery Practice” Loads with Bullseye Powder

Ed Harris,
Gerrardstown, West Virginia

A few years ago friends gave me several thousand pulled Cal. 30 Ball M2 (152-gr.FMJ) bullets and fired empty cases they accumulated from CMP .30-’06 ammo from which they had yanked the GI bullets and replaced them with Sierra 155-gr. Palmas over the original powder charge. I was offered half the fired brass and all the pulled bullets to use my Dillon Auto-Swage 600 to rework the brass and work up a gallery load suitable for Junior training in Appleseed classes and rapid-fire practice at 100 yards in 03A3 Springfields. Our intent was to approximate the M1906 Guard cartridge. An article in Rifle Magazine, March-April 1990, by Jeffrey W. Houck, p49 was the stimulus for this.

Reduced power gallery and guard cartridges were developed for use in the M1903 Springfield on urban installations where full power ammunition posed a risk of collateral damage if fired in anger. The M1906 Guard cartridge used a reduced charge of Bullseye powder with the M1906 150-gr. FMJ service bullet and was identified by 6 flutes on the shoulder of the cartridge case. It gave accuracy equal to normal Ball ammunition at ranges up to 200 yards and shot approximately to point of aim at 100 yards using the standing bar of the folded down battle sight on the M1903 Springfield rifle. At a range of 200 yards the Guard cartridge required an elevation of 650 yards on the rear sight elevation slide.

Our initial experiments sought a subsonic load for minimum noise, but 100-yard groups with the pulled jacketed M2 Ball bullets loaded subsonic weren’t not as good as when driven a bit faster. Nor was there any benefit to using pistol primers, case fillers or enlarged flash holes with Bullseye powder in these .30-’06 gallery loads. Once-fired LC69 military cases were full length resized; primer pockets swaged, trimmed to length and primed with standard Winchester Large Rifle primers.

We settled on a charge of 8.4 grains of Alliant Bullseye as metered using the RCBS Little Dandy powder measure with the Rotor # 15, as the best compromise with the pulled Ball M2 150-grain jacketed bullets. Bullets were seated to their cannelure and crimped using the Lee Factory Crimp die. Velocity from my 22" Mauser sporter is 1080 f.p.s. and from a Sako A2 silhouette rifle with 24” Douglas Premium barrel with tight-necked target chamber and SAAMI throat 1160 f.p.s. Report and recoil are mild, like shooting a .32-20.
The average of five consecutive 5-shot groups fired at 50 yards from the Mauser sporter with 4X hunting scope was 1.2 inches. The heavy barrel Sako with 10X scope shot an inch at 50 yards. Point of impact at 50 yards was 3.5" below Ball M2, so the duplex reticule as used a short-range post, without changing the normal hunting zero with 180-gr. ammunition. Firing at 100 yards, the Mauser sporter struck much lower, and required re-zeroing, but accuracy was OK averaging 2.6” for ten consecutive 5-shot groups at 100 yards, which compares to Ball M2 ammunition. The Sako with 10X scope averaged 2” for ten consecutive 5-shot groups, also typical of M2 Ball fired in that rifle.

We also tested cast bullets, loaded without a GC, to compare against the Ball M2 pulls. Our cast bullets were cast in bulk from wheelweights using gang molds, culled by visual inspection only, tumbled in Lee Liquid Alox, and loaded in cases expanded with a Lyman M die, as-cast without sizing. Cast bullet groups were as good or better than the M2 Ball pulls. Velocities were significantly higher with lubricated cast bullets than with jacketed bullets fired with the same powder charge and approached 1400 f.p.s. with 8 grains of Bullseye. We found it advantageous to reduce the charges with plainbased cast bullets to reduce leading which impairs accuracy over long strings of fire. The minimum charge recommended with a 120-160 grain soft lead lubricated cast bullet for reliable bore exit is 4 grains of Bullseye, as metered by RCBS Little Dandy powder Rotor #7. Rotor #11 throws 6 grains, which is an accurate good subsonic load with lighter bullets not over 160 grains. Rotors #13 and #14 throw charges from 7.2-7.8 grains which are the miniumum to adequately stabilize cast bullets over 160 grains from a ten-inch twist barrel. These gallery loads are great for low cost practice, training, and small game, and are useable in any sound .30-’06 rifle.

If you want a no-fuss, reliable, lower noise load with reduced danger space, load not more than 8 grs. of Bullseye in the .30-'06 or 7.62x54R Russian, or 7 grains of Bullseye in the 7.62 NAT0, 8mm Mauser, 7.65 Argentine, 7.7 Japanese or .303 British with any jacketed bullet or cast bullet of the same weight or lighter than the military service one appropriate for the caliber. Do not reduce the 8 grain charge any further with jacketed bullets in the '06 because you WILL "stick" a bullet in the bore.

When using lubricated lead cast bullets of a weight similar to or less than the service bullet, it is OK to reduce the charge for lower noise, if desired. In typical military bolt rifles such as the .303 British, 7.62x54R Russian, .30-'06 and 8mm, you can use as little as 4 grains of Bullseye, Clays, 700-X, Red Dot, Unique, W231 or TiteGroup. Soft lead, not harder than 12 BHN, lubricated cast bullets exit the barrel reliably down to about 700 f.p.s. and accuracy is reasonable to 50 yards. Do not reduce charges further. The web site http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm has comprehensive reduced rifle load data and is recommended as further reference.

Cast loads which approximate the M1919 Gallery Practice cartridge are shown in the table.
[Table lost format when imported, and was gibberish, so was deleted - Outpost75]

These light loads do not cycle the action in semi-automatic rifles, but can be fed from clips in the Garand if the action is worked manually. These charges can be used in the 7.62x54R Russian cartridge with similar results. To produce similar loads for the 7.62 NATO, 8mm Mauser, 7.65 Argentine, 7.7 Japanese or .303 British, maximum charges should be reduced by a full grain.

IMPORTANT SAFETY MESSAGE!

Whenever using reduced charges of dense, fast-burning pistol powder it is absolutely necessary to visually inspect 100% every case for correct powder fill using a pen light to positively prevent missing or double charges or spilled powder. Another solution is to use a bulky powder, such as Trail Boss which obviously overflows the case if inadvertently double-charged.

For further reference read .30-06 GALLERY LOADS
Rifle Magazine March-April 1990,
by Jeffrey W. Houck, P49

[jreb51]

I thank you all for your input. I'm am just trying to find a load that is mild for plinking for my kids. With 22s about gone, figured it was time for them to get used to the bigger rifles. They really liked the low recoil loads that I made up using TB. So I wanted to try to cast some bullets and have them shooting them till 22s come back at a price that is some what reasonable.