Question about case annealing.

[s mac]

I have annealed bottlenecked cases before,want to anneal some 444 Marlin cases. Do you only anneal the part of the case that the boolit is seated within?

[gray wolf]

I would say yes, and don't get it red hot, try just a slight blue color change.
do it in a darkened room, turn the case as you do it and as soon as you see any hint of any color red quench the case in water to suppress the heat transfer to the case head. do not heat the case head.

[dog2blue]

I annealed some old military brass years ago. Stood the cases upright in a pan of water. Heated them with a propane torch until they changed color. Then just knocked them over into the water with the torch.

[GP100man]

graywolf hits on a point that many that start annealin, many use way too much heat !

I anneal just enuff to barely change the color of the brass & that`s way brfore ya see any redish/orange glow even in low lite .

& yes just anneal the part of the brass that does the work, neck & shoulder area on bottle neck cases.

I`ve annealed 357 mag cases to save a batch when they split a couple, as ya can see in the pic there`s very little change in color & this was just enuff to soften the necks & have enuff neck tension to still hold a boolit.

http://i746.photobucket.com/albums/xx110/GP100man/102_0510.jpg (http://s746.photobucket.com/user/GP100man/media/102_0510.jpg.html)

[s mac]

Thanks guys.

[blackthorn]

Annealing case necks by dipping them into molten lead that is held at about seven hundred degrees ‘F’ works well. Wheel weight alloy, which is approximately eighty nine parts lead, one part tin and ten parts antimony, melts at six hundred and nineteen degrees ‘F’ so you can safely set your lead alloy temperature at seven hundred degrees ‘F’. The use of a thermometer will take any guesswork out of the process. The reason for using lead for annealing is to keep the temperature low enough for proper uniform annealing, and that is simply not possible using the torch method. With a torch the case is often heated on one side more than the other, temperatures are not readily repeatable from case to case, and in falling over into the water, one side is quenched before the other.

To minimize the likelihood of lead ‘soldering’ itself to the brass case it is best to use as close to pure lead as possible (although any lead alloy will work). Anneal your cases with the fired primers left in, as that forms an airlock that keeps lead away from the inside of the case. With respect to annealing cases using molten lead, basically you: set the thermostat on your pot at seven hundred to eight hundred degrees ‘F’ pick up each case by the head and dip the neck of the cases about a quarter-inch into some powdered graphite or light oil (vegetable oil is fine). The oil keeps lead from sticking to the brass but, any lead that does stick is easily removed by a quick twist in steel wool while the case is still hot. Shake off any excess oil, dip the neck, shoulder, and about a quarter-inch of the case body into the molten lead and just as you begin to feel an uncomfortable degree of heat in your finger tips, drop the case into water. If you hold the cases in some other way than with your bare fingers, leave them in the molten lead from eight to twelve, but not more than fifteen seconds. When the case is hot enough that the lead does not cling to it, it is annealed. Pull the case up out of the lead, tap on the side of the case to remove any bits of lead (if the lead is really sticking, the case isn't annealed!), then drop it mouth down (straight) into a container that is mostly full of ice water. Following the anneal, it would be wise to closely inspect the inside of the case both visually and with a bent paper clip just to make sure there are no lead drippings adhering to the inside the case.

If you are left-handed, have the cases on the right side, the lead in the middle, and the ice water on the left. The cases go only one direction, to the left, and you use only one hand. If you are right handed, reverse the set-up. Because it only takes a few seconds per case, you can anneal hundreds of cases in an hour with this method. After the annealing process, remove the cases from the water, shake them out and use a piece of bronze wool to clean the annealed portion. This removes any residual lead and/or burned oil. Then, dry and tumble the cases to remove any traces of residual oil and they are ready to process.

[s mac]

Thanks, blackthorn, sounds like a good idea. I know the torch method can be hard to be uniform in results.

[Bullshop Junior]

I annealed some old military brass years ago. Stood the cases upright in a pan of water. Heated them with a propane torch until they changed color. Then just knocked them over into the water with the torch.

Thats the way I have always done it.

[cbrick]

s mac, here is an article on annealing that will explain what, how, why of annealing. It's a great read.

Cartridge Case Annealing with the BC-1000 Annealer
When, why, how and if to anneal: By Ken Light (http://lasc.us/CartridgeCaseAnnealing.htm)

Rick

[s mac]

Thanks Rick, very informative.

[BattleRife]

in falling over into the water, one side is quenched before the other...


... then drop it mouth down (straight) into a container that is mostly full of ice water.

Why does it matter that one side is quenched before the other? Why does the water have to be icy? Why do you involve water at all?

[Gtek]

I became hooked on the battery drill with socket I saw on You Tube. Cut rubber hose for internal to create proper case height, hold at 45 degree and slow on throttle, bring propane torch in with other hand. Slight color change, dump in water bucket, establish cadence count when my little brain thinks we looking good. I set up hose running light and secured in bottom of five gallon bucket. Warm water comes off top over side keeping temp somewhat constant. To address above question- if one were to anneal down to web it will probably change your life (case separation) Gtek

[country gent]

Use a socket that fits the case head loosly and extension to hold the case. The socket acts as a heat sink slowing the heats rise and the extension acts as a handle. Heat case to wanted color change and dump in water dip socket in the same water to keep it cool. There is a tourch made now called ring of fire thats a circle of flames being made for annealing even.

[Love Life]

Tempilaq is cheap. Take the guesswork out of it.

[s mac]

Tempilaq is cheap. Take the guesswork out of it.
What is Tempilaq?

[Love Life]

What is Tempilaq?

http://www.amazon.com/Tempilaq%C2%B0-Temperature-Indicating-Liquids-tempilaq/dp/B009G69E56/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1391481695&sr=8-1&keywords=tempilaq+750

[hickfu]

I use the drill and socket method with a torch for a count of 3 seconds and drop into water (to keep the heat from traveling down the case) and it has been working perfectly...

Doc

[gray wolf]

Why does it matter that one side is quenched before the other? Why does the water have to be icy? Why do you involve water at all?
It doesn't, you quench just to be assured that any heat transfer to the case head has been stopped.

[blackthorn]

Why does it matter that one side is quenched before the other? Why does the water have to be icy? Why do you involve water at all?

The sole purpose of using water is to be really really sure the case head does not get softened!

[xacex]

Here is another question on the subject. After annealing do you tumble or polish? Does tumbling re-harden the brass? I have been doing brass conversion to 300 Blackout and have been doing annealing as the last step. I am curious if it would give me a more consistent shoulder, and case mouth if I annealed before I sized, trimmed and polished.

[blikseme300]

Here is another question on the subject. After annealing do you tumble or polish? Does tumbling re-harden the brass? I have been doing brass conversion to 300 Blackout and have been doing annealing as the last step. I am curious if it would give me a more consistent shoulder, and case mouth if I annealed before I sized, trimmed and polished.

I always tumble again using SS media - this is for looks only. Some believe that the small pins will peen the brass and work harden it - I don't believe this to be so.

I form my own 300blk brass and anneal before forming as I had more consistent results. I check the brass using a case guage. After these cases are once fired I anneal again and repeat after every 3 firings.

[xacex]

I always tumble again using SS media - this is for looks only. Some believe that the small pins will peen the brass and work harden it - I don't believe this to be so.



This is what I have been doing as well, but I have not tried it after the cutting. I am looking for better consistency in the brass.

[popper]

I use the lead method, works fine. I put the templaq on the shoulder on a few when I first tried. I US clean and they are going to get shot again so I don't care if they are shiny.

[paul edward]

I was getting cracks around the case mouths of .44 Magnum brass due to crimping and belling. After annealing the cases, no more cracks.

With 444 Marlin cases, suggest you anneal the top 3/8" to 1/2".

[detox]

Blackthorn,
Thanks for the write up on case annealing using melted alloy. I once knew how to anneal 45-70 cases this way, but forgot one trick..."I must leave spent primer in case for this to work"

Thanks again!

[mpbarry1]

quenching does very little to the case mouth, but it does protect the base of the case. i use a torch and a bare hand, trust me, you will drop them if that base starts to get hot. :) i do it in a darkened room and look for blue color just prior to orange

[detox]

quenching does very little to the case mouth, but it does protect the base of the case. i use a torch and a bare hand, trust me, you will drop them if that base starts to get hot. :) i do it in a darkened room and look for blue color just prior to orange

Great idea. Thanks

[Rwoods61]

I don't want to hi-jack this topic but has anyone tried to anneal steel cases?

I have been experimenting with reloading steel cases and I have 2 reloadings on some 7.62 X 54R cases. Original firing +2 reloadings. The last time I fired the rounds I got a lot of soot back on the shell casings which indicate to me that the cases are not expanding as sealing as well as they did originally. I am thinking that annealing the cases would soften them up so they will seal properly in the chamber when fired.

Any thoughts?

rwoods61

[white eagle]

when I anneal brass I chuck them in a cordless drill and use a torch no unevenness and works slick as snot

[s mac]

I don't want to hi-jack this topic but has anyone tried to anneal steel cases?

I have been experimenting with reloading steel cases and I have 2 reloadings on some 7.62 X 54R cases. Original firing +2 reloadings. The last time I fired the rounds I got a lot of soot back on the shell casings which indicate to me that the cases are not expanding as sealing as well as they did originally. I am thinking that annealing the cases would soften them up so they will seal properly in the chamber when fired.

Any thoughts?

rwoods61
Steel is a different animal, I would think that heating a steel case would make it harder, more brittle.

[dondiego]

Quenching hot steel in water or oil will definitely harden it. I think that you would have to have the bases in water, get the mouths real hot and let them air cool. Never done it though.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

Annealing case necks by dipping them into molten lead that is held at about seven hundred degrees ‘F’ works well. Wheel weight alloy, which is approximately eighty nine parts lead, one part tin and ten parts antimony, melts at six hundred and nineteen degrees ‘F’ so you can safely set your lead alloy temperature at seven hundred degrees ‘F’. The use of a thermometer will take any guesswork out of the process. The reason for using lead for annealing is to keep the temperature low enough for proper uniform annealing, and that is simply not possible using the torch method. With a torch the case is often heated on one side more than the other, temperatures are not readily repeatable from case to case, and in falling over into the water, one side is quenched before the other.

To minimize the likelihood of lead ‘soldering’ itself to the brass case it is best to use as close to pure lead as possible (although any lead alloy will work). Anneal your cases with the fired primers left in, as that forms an airlock that keeps lead away from the inside of the case. With respect to annealing cases using molten lead, basically you: set the thermostat on your pot at seven hundred to eight hundred degrees ‘F’ pick up each case by the head and dip the neck of the cases about a quarter-inch into some powdered graphite or light oil (vegetable oil is fine). The oil keeps lead from sticking to the brass but, any lead that does stick is easily removed by a quick twist in steel wool while the case is still hot. Shake off any excess oil, dip the neck, shoulder, and about a quarter-inch of the case body into the molten lead and just as you begin to feel an uncomfortable degree of heat in your finger tips, drop the case into water. If you hold the cases in some other way than with your bare fingers, leave them in the molten lead from eight to twelve, but not more than fifteen seconds. When the case is hot enough that the lead does not cling to it, it is annealed. Pull the case up out of the lead, tap on the side of the case to remove any bits of lead (if the lead is really sticking, the case isn't annealed!), then drop it mouth down (straight) into a container that is mostly full of ice water. Following the anneal, it would be wise to closely inspect the inside of the case both visually and with a bent paper clip just to make sure there are no lead drippings adhering to the inside the case.

If you are left-handed, have the cases on the right side, the lead in the middle, and the ice water on the left. The cases go only one direction, to the left, and you use only one hand. If you are right handed, reverse the set-up. Because it only takes a few seconds per case, you can anneal hundreds of cases in an hour with this method. After the annealing process, remove the cases from the water, shake them out and use a piece of bronze wool to clean the annealed portion. This removes any residual lead and/or burned oil. Then, dry and tumble the cases to remove any traces of residual oil and they are ready to process.

Thanks for this post. I've been looking for something more detailed than just set the lead furnace to 750 to 800 and dunk.

Does anyone else have any pitfalls to avoid ?
thanks,
Jon

[blackthorn]

jon---glad you found that helpful.