3 groove barrel [Archive]

high standard 40

02-02-2014, 07:19 PM

I am in the process of an XP100 build. The action has been blue printed and we are in the process of fitting and chambering the barrel. I had ordered a Lilja SS barrel in 7MM with a 1-9" twist, which I just recently recieved. Upon inspecting this barrel, I was impressed with the smoothness of the bore. This is when I noticed that it has only 3 lands and grooves. I have never seen a 3 groove barrel. Anybody have one of these? How well does it shoot? I'm sure if Lilja builds it that way, it must be good to go. I've just never seen a 3 groove barrel.

I am particularly wondering is this will have any effect, positively or negatively, with cast bullets.

johnson1942

02-02-2014, 09:20 PM

some say and possibly rightly so that odd number of lands and grooves have more potential for accracy than a even number. you cant hold a base ball with 4 fingers and throw it right as a 4 legged step ladder wont stand on uneven ground as a 3 legged step ladder will. also i believe the old spring field 45/70/s had 3 lands and grooves. ive had shooters with odd numbers lands and grooves even down to three say its easier to get their gun shooting. i suspect your gun is going to be a real shooter and easy to work up a load on. lets use know how it turns out. i would have barrels cut that way but its hard to find some one to do a custom barrel and twist in odd numbers. i just gave up. i do have one .45 roundball gun custom cut by a small out fit in texas 25 years ago. that gun can cut center every time at 100 yards. 30 years ago i reconditioned a old .45 muzzle loader that had 3 lands and grooves and when i test fired it at 50 yards it kept 1 hole ragged. i tried to buy it from the owner but he wouldnt part with it. i think you have your self a winner and have fun.

btroj

02-02-2014, 09:22 PM

I have 2 service rifle uppers with 3 groove barrels. They shoot very, very well. They will easily hold x ring at 600.

I would get another in an instant.

johnson1942

02-02-2014, 11:16 PM

you guys have got me going again, who can cut me a custom barrel in cal. and twist of my choise in 3 groove? i think i would like to put a new .450/.458 1/18 twist 36 inches long on my 45/70 with 3 lands and grooves.

btroj

02-02-2014, 11:53 PM

Mine are Pac-nor. I'm very happy with them.

robroy

02-03-2014, 07:30 PM

I hear JES uses 3 grooves when he rebores.

DCM

02-03-2014, 09:58 PM

Johnson1942, Obermeyer, Krieger and bartlien do cut rifled 5 grooves, I think there are others that are buttoned also.
My OB1s shoot better than I likely ever will.

high standard 40

02-03-2014, 11:26 PM

The build is coming along. The barrel has been fitted and chambered 7BR and it's on to the finishing bay. I'm going two tone. I'll leave the barrel a bright stainless and the receiver and bolt will be black satin teflon. The stock is synthetic and is painted metallic blue. I'll post pictures when completed.

DCM

02-05-2014, 10:25 PM

I noticed while cruising the Pac-Nor sight that they have 3 groove barrels in many calibers.

Their barrel on my 25WSSM Shoots very well(not a 3groove though).

bob208

02-06-2014, 02:46 PM

Robert Hoyt Fairfield pa. can cut 3 grove. most of the .58 Springfield rifled muskets had 3 grove the .50-70 and .45-70 also used 3 grove barrels.

white eagle

02-06-2014, 07:14 PM

I have a Pac-Nor 3 groove barrel on my 280 ai very accurate and easy to clean

Ballistics in Scotland

02-07-2014, 12:18 AM

It depends how the barrel is made. In the days of those Springfields, and the first five-groove Metford and Lee-Enfield barrels, the grooves were made by a cutting or scraping tool, one groove at a time in a series of gradually deepening passes. The cut would be smoother if there were a land opposite the cutter, than if there was a groove, of which only the edges would support the tool. So the rifling design usually had an odd number of grooves.

I don't think it makes a bit of difference with any of the designs in which all the grooves are made at the same time, such as button, broach or hammer rifling.

Changeling

02-08-2014, 07:08 PM

Hammer rifling is for the mass produced barrels, can be very good to bad. You basically take your chances, some are really nice, some are not so hot. Usually on factory rifles.
Button rifling is done in the better barrels. Usually good depending on the "Button" and rifling equipment. Price = Mid to Expensive.
Cut Rifling is done in the better barrels. Usually very good depending on the equipment and operator. Price = Expensive.

Sorry to bust anyones bubble, but that is just the way it is! The above is based on the top notch companies doing the work/or buying a barrel.

For the general public making a rifle for shooting cast projectiles really well any of the above processes would be sutiable.

However in my opinion a cut rifled blank/barrel would be the ultimate choice for someone wishing the best. This would be target shooters basically.

johnson1942

02-08-2014, 08:30 PM

their is a lot less stress in a cut rifled barrel but if you cryo a buttoned barrel the stress is reduced by at least 70 percent. i really like the cut barrels from oregon barrel co. but i have to admit the buttoned barrels from douglas are the best ive ever shot. i saw a 45/70 barrel once that you could just make out the lands on the ouside of the barrel from when they pulled the button through from the pressure of the button. it shot real tight groups at any range. if the bore is on center and their isnt any undue stress in the barrel it will shoot after you work up a load for it.

rbertalotto

02-08-2014, 08:38 PM

Lots of my PacNors and all my JES rebores are three groove. Very accurate all of them. Three grooves leave nice big lands that take a lot longer to wear out than 6 small lands......

Is your new gun going to be 7BR?

I have an XP100 in 7BR that I used to shoot IMHSA Silhouette with. Sure firearm!

http://images59.fotki.com/v111/photos/2/36012/9508198/RemXP1007BR-vi.jpg

high standard 40

02-09-2014, 10:33 AM