Steel case reloading?

[divinemarquis]

Ok, I see a lot of topics on here that involve guys using pretty much everything they have in the pursuit of cheap hand-loaded ammunition. I have also seen where some guys reload their Berdan primed stuff. My question is, has anyone reloaded steel cases? I assume it would require carbide dies? I have reloaded before, but not very much. I have only reloaded straight, by the book, with little experimentation. I am looking to delve into the world of making my own ammunition and wondered if this was possible and who had any information about it.

If this is in the wrong section, I apologize. I couldnt find a section that looked like it really matched the question I was trying to ask.

[Sgtonory]

I have not reloaded rifle steel cased but have a lot of pistol caliber. I use carbide dies and have no issue.

[MacFan]

I posted this not long ago- http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?228116-Berdan-to-Boxer-amp-Steel-Shells

[divinemarquis]

Thanks for the info, guys. Has anybody loaded them until they are no longer fit? Im assuming they have a longer life than brass. Or am I wrong? Also, is there any sort of preparation needed that is different that that of brass? Finally, who makes carbide rifle dies that will fit a Lee turret press? I have a few military calibers and being able to do this would increase the amount of cases I have on hand exponentially.

[Sgtonory]

Dillon makes carbide rifle dies but cost around $140 each. You can use regular dies just need to use lube as normal for rifle brass.

[frkelly74]

I have loaded 223 and 45 steel cases. They work fine without a lot of extra prep. just normal lube and go.

[MacFan]

I make sure the cases have no sharp dings, burrs or crazy dents, lube with a little lithium wheel bearing grease and then size with my Lee full length sizer. Seems to be fine. I use a Lee turret press.
I've only shot the same cases a few times so far, dimensionally they're much more stable than brass.
For day to day shooting my preference is still brass but it's nice to know reloading steel isn't a huge problem.
I'll probably clean up a few thousand steel cases and set 'em aside just in case.

[jmorris]

It's a fact, you can reload steel and aluminum cases.

I know a guy that thought he was so clever that he was able to reload the "non-reloadable" aluminum cases. Every case cracked upon the 2nd firing but who cares they were free. A few months down the road he had to replace the Kart barrel due to chamber erosion.

What he never realized was that the cases were deemed not reloadable to help prevent him from screwing something up, not intended to be a challenge.

[jonas302]

Can be done yes in regular dies not a great idea and no steel cases do not last longer
keep them on hand in case you ever need them brass is better safer doesn't rust and in military calibers is cheap in bulk

[Poygan]

I have reloaded both the CCI aluminum cases and the Wolf steel cases in .45 acp. I use carbide dies and also lube the cases with Imperial wax. I believe somewhere around 5 reloadings both aluminum and steel will split somewhat at the neck. Nice in the winter when you don't want to dig the cases out of the snow....

[mdi]

Yep, as mentioned above, steel cases are reloadable. Sizing is a problem (not force needed, but "spring back" and case work hardness is much different for steel than brass) and dies are dimensioned for brass. Plus very low case life (I reloaded some 45 ACP cases and they split on second reload). I read a test of a feller on another forum that was reloading some 5.56/.223 steel cases and got 6 or 7 reloadings...

[Bayou52]

I'm thinking that sizing a steel case ay be one thing. But what about trimming it? Wouldn't that be rough on cutter blades?

[mikeym1a]

I have only recently reloaded .223 steel cases. I haven't fired them, yet, but they loaded just fine. Used my Lee Challenger press. I have reloaded .45 and .380 aluminum cases. I recently had the 1st one split. I believe it was the 6th reloading of that case. This was out of 100 cases, all loaded at the same time, and all had been reloaded the same number of times. I found it during the reloading process, it showed when I flared the mouth. I haven't had the opportunity to get back to the range since then, due to ill health, and the weather. This South Westerly wind in blowing some nice air this way today, and seeing the thermometer saying +61F sure is nice, compared to the +16F of last sunday. Hope this trend continues. Got stuff to do, and it can't be done indoors. Cheers! 8-)

[dudel]

Why bother with steel cases when there is so much brass available? Steel ammo is harder on extractors, chambers, and doesn't last as long.

We know there's a difference in case volume between .223 and mil spec 5.56. What's the case volume of a steel case? What does that volume do to your chamber pressures? When the case splits (and it will), what's the effect of gasses on your chamber? Are you planning on reapplying the lacquer finish on the steel case (put on there to ease case extraction)?

If you're in a place where all you have is steel ammo, it just means you didn't plan very well.

Can it be done? Sure; but why bother?

[williamwaco]

I have several friends that use steel cases for "fire and forget" loads.

They use them in the field where they expect to lose them.

Bayou52? - TRIM THEM?

OMG what have you been sipping. -What ever it is, I want some.

[MacFan]

Why bother with steel cases when there is so much brass available? Steel ammo is harder on extractors, chambers, and doesn't last as long...

Wow, remember 8 months ago? :wink:
One simple executive order and the availability of new or surplus brass, especially the -evil assault weapon sizes- could change dramatically for years, if not forever.
Some guns were made for steel though I'd rather not shoot it as a regular diet. I have the ability to reload it, that's all I need to know. It took a couple hours to develop the tools and ability, in my mind that's better than wishing I had done it.

[dudel]

Wow, remember 8 months ago? :wink:
One simple executive order and the availability of new or surplus brass, especially the -evil assault weapon sizes- could change dramatically for years, if not forever.
Some guns were made for steel though I'd rather not shoot it as a regular diet. I have the ability to reload it, that's all I need to know. It took a couple hours to develop the tools and ability, in my mind that's better than wishing I had done it.

So you think the executive order will cut brass; but not steel? Why?

I remember 8 months ago (and much further back as well)! That's why I said if all you have is steel, then you haven't planned very well. The first shortage didn't happen eight months ago. There have been shortages over the years, and will continue to be shortages. Best to plan ahead.

So now you have steel cases. Got primers, powder, projectiles? If you haven't planned for those, then having steel cases (and knowing how to reload them) is going to be pretty pointless. If you've put up primers, powder and projectiles, then put up brass. Of the four, it's the most reusable.

And if a ban on evil weapons worries you, consider 80% receivers.

[MacFan]

Dudel, an executive order can stop further sales.
I remember back to '73 when I started shooting.
I have brass, primers, powder, lead, molds, steel, a fully stocked machine/welding shop and 45 years of machine trade experience, manual and CNC, water jets, lathes, mills, just about anything that cuts metal. I've machined wristwatch sized gears, parts weighing 20 tons and yeah guns from scratch.
I'm cool, worry about yourself. Thank you for your concern.

Edit: Correction, started shooting in '75.

[r1kk1]

Dillon makes carbide rifle dies but cost around $140 each. You can use regular dies just need to use lube as normal for rifle brass.

The expander is carbide. Still need to use lube. I believe the dies are meant more for the commercial side where numbers of rounds will easily break into the six figure range in the lifetime of the die.

http://www.dillonprecision.com/content/p/9/pid/24498/catid/4/Dillon_Carbide_Rifle_Dies__Individual___Three_Die_ Sets_

Take care

r1kk1

[petroid]

As has been said before, steel cases are reloadable but will work harden and split much sooner than brass. I have reloaded some boxer primed steel .223 cases and noticed a few things. I was using lee dies and press and not carbide resizing dies but my steel dies worked just fine with a little more pull on the handle than for brass cases. I also noticed that the cases didn't stretch as much as bress and did not require trimming at least after only one firing. They shot just fine and I have a gallon zip-lock bag full of them that I am saving in case I am out of brass or will be shooting in an area where it is difficult/impossible to retrieve my brass. I don't plan on reloading them multiple times, just to shoot and throw away. Still cheaper than buying ammo and can load whatever I want. With enough case lube, I don't believe resizing will hurt your dies and if you are seating flat base bullets, no trimming/chamfering is needed for once-fired range pickups. I started doing this a year ago when brass was scarce and it is a good thing to know about. I have not reloaded any steel pistol cases so I can't comment on that. Pete

[A pause for the COZ]

I load quite a few Steel cases. Three reasons mainly.
1- We may not always have easy access to brass cases at a reasonable cost.
2- To have a supply of cheap reloads to take when I wont be able to collect my brass,
3- Figured better to know how just in case...

They reload fine with standard reloading dies. The steel is in its annealed state. I have seen evidence that it is actually softer than Brass at this point. It will not damage your dies.
The only thing I have noted is that while resizing the steel does not have the spring back like brass. I dont find a issue with 7.62x39 but I am unsure if it would affect other calibers. ( I have not done them)

I have reloaded with Berdan primers and I have also tested with success, supplementing standard boxer primers in Berdan cases when the Berdan primers are unavailable. ( Can do it and it works but its no fun. Only use if no other options,)
As for case life??? ummm not sure, I have some that I have reloaded 5 times with out issue. Usually I loose them before I get a good idea how long they will last.

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d66/Kelly2215/100_8920_zps9ec6ee21.jpg

After case prep, I load them both at the same time.

[divinemarquis]

Thanks for the info guys! Ive got a ton of steel and wondered if I shouldnt try to load some with some boolits.

[dbosman]

Save them in a cool dry place until you really need them. cardboard boxes on top of heating ducts is good.
Spring back is one of the biggest issues.
Brass is more available now than during the Carter administration when ATF, FTC, and Senator Dodd were seriously trying to make cartridges unavailable.

[frkelly74]

I have been using the steel 45 cases for my recycled hard ball rounds. When the snow melts there is usually a bunch of perfectly good once fired and snow polished 230 gr jacketed slugs there for the picking. They are just right for cheap low effort loading.

[ravelode]

I have been using the steel 45 cases for my recycled hard ball rounds. When the snow melts there is usually a bunch of perfectly good once fired and snow polished 230 gr jacketed slugs there for the picking. They are just right for cheap low effort loading.

I was using american steel 50's vintage .45 ACP for years before someone pointed out they were cadmium plated:veryconfu. I was getting 7 or more loadings out of a case. I've loaded berdan steel cases in 7.62x39 and boxer wolf .223. I just chamfer before reloading (that steel edge tears "J" and boolits bases equally bad). I've never needed to trim them. they are great for fire and forget cases for hunting, snow days, etc.

[MacFan]

Thanks for the info guys! Ive got a ton of steel and wondered if I shouldnt try to load some with some boolits.

Keep us posted on your progress.

[DRNurse1]

As has been said before, steel cases are reloadable but will work harden and split much sooner than brass. I have reloaded some boxer primed steel .223 cases and noticed a few things. I was using lee dies and press and not carbide resizing dies but my steel dies worked just fine with a little more pull on the handle than for brass cases. I also noticed that the cases didn't stretch as much as bress and did not require trimming at least after only one firing. They shot just fine and I have a gallon zip-lock bag full of them that I am saving in case I am out of brass or will be shooting in an area where it is difficult/impossible to retrieve my brass. I don't plan on reloading them multiple times, just to shoot and throw away. Still cheaper than buying ammo and can load whatever I want. With enough case lube, I don't believe resizing will hurt your dies and if you are seating flat base bullets, no trimming/chamfering is needed for once-fired range pickups. I started doing this a year ago when brass was scarce and it is a good thing to know about. I have not reloaded any steel pistol cases so I can't comment on that. Pete

I like the thought process here, and admire you folks for keeping it on topic, more or less.

My only addition to the process is heat. I squirreled away some steel cases just to see what would happen and had a bucket of rust in less than a year. Tried it again after decapping and heating the cases, then dropping them in an ammo can with some desiccant. 10 years and no rust in that bucket. Checked on them intermittently, then reheated and returned to the ammo can. Last two times, no desiccant.

I suppose if you planned to reload and shoot right away that is unnecessary labor.

[divinemarquis]

Would you guys recommend annealing the cases before doing anything?

[MacFan]

Would you guys recommend annealing the cases before doing anything?

I've thought about throwing a bunch in the heat treating oven and doing a full anneal but haven't done it. For a few reloads on a case it's not needed.

[divinemarquis]

Ill try some as I have a small forge that will allow me to do a couple at a time.

[mdi]

Thanks for the info guys! Ive got a ton of steel and wondered if I shouldnt try to load some with some boolits.
Try a few. As you've seen, many reload steel, but my results were not good enough to stock up on steel cases for what I shoot. You may have better results than I have...

[divinemarquis]

Im not preparing to load steel because of its advantages, Im preparing to load it because my mil rifles run Wolf very well so I tend to buy a lot of it. Plus, some mil surplus is steel. Just trying to increase my options and decrease waste.

[MacFan]

I forgot to mention that I do vibratory tumble steel cases for a couple of hours in walnut shell and some Nu-Finish.

[Janoosh]

I reload wolf 223 steel with jaxketed. Full length resize and then neck only afterwards. I'm getting 6 reloads with no problems. I tumble polish to remove grit, with no rust after. I'm going to try cast this summer. The only problem I can see is that the inside of the case neck is rough. I don't use maximum loads and I'm not experiencing any problems except the odd split neck now and then.

[MacFan]

Today, just out of curiosity, I threw a handful of de-primed steel shells in my rotary tumbler with stainless pins that I usually use for brass.
They turned out really nice, the shells were nicely polished and the sharp edges and raised nicks were smoothed off.
A couple originally had lacquer coating and little bit survived as did the copper plating on a few shells.
30 minutes of tumbling did little, 2 hours was about right.

[frkelly74]

The thing to watch out for is rust. If you take off the rust resistant coating there is a risk. If you are putting a wax or car polish back on , then maybe you will be okay. I do not polish and also leave a little case lube residue on for protection.

[MacFan]

The thing to watch out for is rust. If you take off the rust resistant coating there is a risk. If you are putting a wax or car polish back on , then maybe you will be okay. I do not polish and also leave a little case lube residue on for protection.

Good point.
The ones I've put together so far get a final vibratory tumble with automotive Nu-Finish and then stored with silica packs.
If I ever start doing larger quantities they'll end up vacuum bagged with silica packs.
For me right now it's all still in the experimenting stage.
For the sake of "what-if?" I did up a couple dozen a week ago and did a light epoxy powder coat on the shell before loading. These had not received the Nu-Finish treatment.
It's pretty amazing how well the powder coat stood up to the violence of being fired and ejected.

[petroid]

I do think tumbling with a little car polish can help reduce risk of rusting cases. I wrongly said before that flat base bullets wouldn't require chamfering. In fact flat base bullets do require chamfering but boat tails do not. Haven't tried any cast boolits yet though. Pete

[MacFan]

Nu Finish is a polish/protectant that helps some with steel and rust and also brass tarnishing. I add it to the crushed walnut shell in my vibratory tumbler.