No luck w 444 and 429244

[mattd]

First time reloading for my marlin MG 444 and went to the 429244 cause its the only GC 44 mold I have. Sized .4315 - 432. Read a bunch of good stuff about 2400 w similar combo, and since its impossible to find, used same loads with AA9. Loaded up 4 each of 24-28g and crimped with the seat crimp die.

All of em were bad. 5-6in groups at 50 yards. that's even bad for me. I've never reloaded a lever gun before and maybe not doing it right. I started like I do for bolt/auto guns...seat long, close bolt slowly, seat deeper and deeper trying to get just a little resistance from the riffling. But that dosent work cause they have to be seated deep to eject and feed right. So I seated them so they would just go in and out, not that close to the riffling.

any suggestions to make this combo work?

[jgt]

My Marlin levers do not like Keith style bullets. I switched to those designed by J.D.Jones and some I designed my self using Mountain molds program. A good article was written by Glen Fryxell on 444 and he gives load of information on the subject. Good pictures of lots of bullets that work well.

[Larry Gibson]

mattd

Suggest a bit slower burning powder; do you have any 4198, 5744, 3031 or RL7? Contrary to popular opinion 2400 sometimes is not the best powder to use in a .44 caliber cartridge. I have used the 429244 quite successfully in a couple 444 Marlins, no reason it shouldn't shoot as well in yours.

Larry Gibson

[jblee10]

In my experience 2400 is great in the 44 magnum. The 444 is an entirely different animal and shouldn't even be compared with the magnum. As weird as it sounds, the 444 is more like the 223. Look for a website called beartooth bullets, and read some articles there. Good info! The 444 is much more suitable for loading with fast rifle powder, and pistol powders are very seldom usable for anything.

[bigted]

i am not sure about the configuration of your boolit nor the weight but i have had my best success with 300+ grain boolits in my 444. try the IMR 3031 or RL-7 for your powder. either one does well in my lever 444 and those heavier boolits.

now im gonna tell of a load that is steady good times for a old time style load ... shovel in 60 grains GOEX 2F powder ...[blackpowder]... then compress this with a compression stem to the depth that your boolit wants to be seated and crimped. load this in a magnum primed case and go out and have a full great time. my 444 will take the 429650 boolit that casts at 325 grain ... with the gas check in place this hummer really likes that BP load. the boolit is lubed with good BP lube ...[SPG]... and crimped over the last drive band ahead of the stock crimp groove. this is just as accurate as i can hold out to 50 yards. haven't tryed it any further but it will amaze at that yardage ... going into a raged hole when i do my part with the bead front and a Lyman peep on the receiver.

your Marlin will shoot if you give her what she wants. take your fired case and slightly bell the mouth and measure the id to find what your rifle will desire for diameter.

[6pt-sika]

I've had very good luck with the 429244 and 429244HP in Micro groove barreled 444's !

Matter of fact I plowed two deer this past season with the 429244HP . With both versions and H322 I shot some 100 yard groups of 3 shots less then 2 inches .

[Wally]

I use 17.0 grains of Unique with the 429244 in the .444 MG Marlin..very accurate. Tried a 429215 and it wasn't.

[Shuz]

mattd--As others have suggested, try a rifle powder like Reloder 7 or H-322 or 4198 with your 429244gc. My Marlin Micro-Groove bbl'd 444's both like Reloder 7. You also might wanna try some .433 diameter boolits. Most Marlins like 'em fat!

[helice]

Tho I don't shoot these in a Marlin, my Winchester does very well with the 429244. I am pleased to see that I am not the only one here enjoying fine results with ReLoder-7. Re-7 has been my "go-to" powder for the 444 for years.

[mattd]

Suggest a bit slower burning powder

it's been awhile, and i certainly know this is the best advise on the net, but I loaded up some with the only other option I had on hand at the time, Unique. First group at 50y, 14g, aiming at the small target at the top, I got the northern most 4 holes with one off paper. All over the place. Not sure what that big hole on the right is from. Thinking....great here we go again.

Then the next 3 w 16g are almost touching! We might be on to something. The 4th was a bit left, but I was too happy from the first 3 to focus to close.

101636

I'll add that the 14g ones were with short hornady brass. The good ones were with normal brass. Same OAL. don't know where hornady gets off!

Have since gotten some RL7, but this was an easy shooting load.

[Shuz]

Try the Rel 7 that you now have with your 429244 and report back. Methinks....happy, happy, happy!

[mattd]

how much RL7 are you guys loading? a quick look shows about 48-52 grains w a 280+ cast bullet, with some blazing speed to boot. I like low end, low recoil loads that still are good for deer. 17-1800ish fps and i'd be happy.

[bikerbeans]

I just started shooting the Lyman Devastator 44cal HPGC (IIRC, 429640 is the number, sized at .4315") over 27g SR 4759, R-P case, Win LRP, 2.55" OAL with light crimp. Last Monday with a MG 444S LG and a 1:38 twist Handi rifle I shot these groups @ 100 yards. After a scope adjustment I repeated the group with the 444S but was too lazy to walk 100 yards and grab the target. Targets are scanned because my cell camera is junk. I know one range trip doesn't mean a whole bunch but it was at least a good starting point for load workup. BTW, the handi started life as a 44M and I rechambered it, cut and recrowned the barrel at 18.5". The boolits are cast (not by me) with Lyman #2 and lubed with a black lube that I was told is Lyman supermoly.


BB

[Shuz]

how much RL7 are you guys loading? a quick look shows about 48-52 grains w a 280+ cast bullet, with some blazing speed to boot. I like low end, low recoil loads that still are good for deer. 17-1800ish fps and i'd be happy.
mattd--I load 45g of Reloder 7 behind a 300g MP 433-300HP. Velocity is 2100 to 2150 depending on which of my 444's I put it thru. OAL is 2.48+-. Primer is Rem 9-1/2.

[6pt-sika]

I use 17.0 grains of Unique with the 429244 in the .444 MG Marlin..very accurate. Tried a 429215 and it wasn't.

With H322 I've had good or better results with 429244, 429244HP , 429215 , 429650 . 429640 , 429640HP and the 429649 all in the 444 Marlin with the slow twist Micro Groove barrel . And to take it one step further the RCBS 44-225 , 44-240 and 44-300 all SWC GC molds have done well enough for deer at 100 yards when pushed with H322 , IMR8208 , XMR2015 and RL-7 . Might as well add the three Saeco bullets all RN FP GC designs in 250 , 265 and 300 grain have done well for me as well in a Micro barrel 444 again with H322 .

Now with that being said I do not generally prefer off the shelf molds over custom cut . But over time I've accumulated all the ones mentioned so why not use them or atleast play with them on paper . Bottom line is you can generally make them all work . I have a rather old Lyman/Ideal 429434 mold that was actually designed I believe for the 44-40 that works rather well in one of my old 444's !

[6pt-sika]

Each year I do Damage Control Hunting/Shooting of deer for a couple farmers and I try to shoot several with cast bullets from one of my 444's . In the past I used the Group Buy 434-207GC mold that I believe "Dutch" ran the group buy for and it worked very well . This year I think I wanna make a conserted effort to try the Lyman 429215 , Lyman 429434 and the RCBS 44-225 .

[6pt-sika]

I just started shooting the Lyman Devastator 44cal HPGC (IIRC, 429640 is the number, sized at .4315") over 27g SR 4759, R-P case, Win LRP, 2.55" OAL with light crimp. Last Monday with a MG 444S LG and a 1:38 twist Handi rifle I shot these groups @ 100 yards. After a scope adjustment I repeated the group with the 444S but was too lazy to walk 100 yards and grab the target. Targets are scanned because my cell camera is junk. I know one range trip doesn't mean a whole bunch but it was at least a good starting point for load workup. BTW, the handi started life as a 44M and I rechambered it, cut and recrowned the barrel at 18.5". The boolits are cast (not by me) with Lyman #2 and lubed with a black lube that I was told is Lyman supermoly.


BB

I used the 429640HP Devestater 2 or 3 seasons ago to shoot a small buck . I used plain old air cooled wheeleight cast bullets . The deer was about 40 yards away and I shot him right behind the shoulder . That bullet did not make it the whole way thru that deer . He hobbled maybe 15 yards laid down and I had to shoot him again . I think in the future with that bullet I will water quench to make them a shade harder .

I had them same thing happen however a year or two ago with the NOE/RD 432-350GC HP . Hit the bullet in the shoulder and it blew up not making it out the other side and had to shoot him again .

My thoughts are it may be the size of the HP cavity as the factory Lyman 429244HP this past season worked alot better . And the HP cavity in that one is a great deal smaller . Anyway just my thoughts on that .

I have HP versions of my BRP/RD 432-375GC and 432-400GC I wanna try this coming year or perhaps the next and see if they get the same reaction .

[mattd]

This year I think I wanna make a conserted effort to try the Lyman 429215 , Lyman 429434 and the RCBS 44-225 .

Well back to my low recoil comment, I had considered similar options, especially the 429215. Everything I read seems like people are working to get heavier stuff dialed in in the 444, but my 3006 with a 180g bullet at 2000fps does great and will pass thru a deer front to back. Why not in a 444.

Love to hear how those work out. Or maybe I don't get this lee 200g 44 to cast concentric bullets for my 44 mag and I just get the 429215.

[6pt-sika]

Well back to my low recoil comment, I had considered similar options, especially the 429215. Everything I read seems like people are working to get heavier stuff dialed in in the 444, but my 3006 with a 180g bullet at 2000fps does great and will pass thru a deer front to back. Why not in a 444.

Love to hear how those work out. Or maybe I don't get this lee 200g 44 to cast concentric bullets for my 44 mag and I just get the 429215.

Bullet molds are like anything else 90% of the time you get what you pay for hence I am not overly impressed with Lee 2 cavity molds .

I actually already have loads worked up for all those "little" bullets and seems to me 50 grains of H322 was what i used with the 429215 . My invetory of molds goes from a light of 207 grains up to the top at 465 grains . If a 207 grain lead bullet from a 444 will kill a deer readily then most any thats that size or larger should do the job also provided you hit it in the correct spot . With the exception of some of those BIG cavity HP bullets which in time will do the job , but personally I prefer to shoot them again rather then see them sitting there waiting to die or possibly get away from me .
Recoil is physics got to a smaller bullet and recoil lessens . that 207 grainer I have has been run up to 2500 FPS I believe by another fellow using VV N-120 and I think he got decent hunting acuracy . 2000-2200 is plenty for me . And that has virtually no recoil . Same can be said by any of the bullets 250 grains or less when run close to max IMHO .

[nekshot]

I think I am missing out on some fun. The only cast I ever shot in my 444 is the lee 310 with alot of H335 for the fire effect ( makes me feel important in low light)! This shot so well I never changed but I think I need to try some smaller stuff now that you all are talking about it.

[Shuz]

I tried the 429215gc and H-4198 in a Marlin 444SS with Micro-Groove, and it did not feed well, so I quit. I figgered if I wanted light projectiles like the 429215, and therefore light re-coil in a .44 caliber rifle, I would load them in my 1994 Winnie Trapper .44 mag carbine. Not only less re-coil, but much much less powder to burn. (8.3g Green Dot vs 45g of H-4198)

[6pt-sika]

I tried the 429215gc and H-4198 in a Marlin 444SS with Micro-Groove, and it did not feed well, so I quit. I figgered if I wanted light projectiles like the 429215, and therefore light re-coil in a .44 caliber rifle, I would load them in my 1994 Winnie Trapper .44 mag carbine. Not only less re-coil, but much much less powder to burn. (8.3g Green Dot vs 45g of H-4198)I've had some people tell me they had trouble with SWC bullets feeding and am sure you both are correct . However in my own testing that's nit been the case . And as you can see I've tried every GC SWC the big two have made recently .

[slughammer]

how much RL7 are you guys loading? a quick look shows about 48-52 grains w a 280+ cast bullet, with some blazing speed to boot. I like low end, low recoil loads that still are good for deer. 17-1800ish fps and i'd be happy.

Try some of those stronger loads and see what kind of accuracy is possible. I have a microgroove marlin 444 and found very good results with 429244 and 53gr of H335 at 2080fps. You can always try to work your way down with RL7 for a lighter kicking load. You may some day find accuracy in the velocity range you desire, but many of us have found it in these slow twist marlin 444's by kicking it in the tail.

(my mold was lapped, boolits were wrapped with teflon tape, and sized to .432)