Pardon me for asking...

[Y-man]

I am still a bit confused, and maybe my English is not up to it, but what really happened with Ajay?

[jmort]

A member made an insulting comment and Ajay somehow made the impression with the site owner that he was acting in bad faith. I never saw that in the thread so possibly something was said in a personal message. Regardless, huge loss for all concerned as far as I'm concerned. I can get you his email and he is on Facebook and other sites. I know he really liked you and for my part admire what you are doing with what resources you have at your disposal.

[Hogtamer]

it has been a loss here and my hope is that apologies, where appropriate, can be sincerely made and accepted. This is the best site of any sort I have experienced on the net and a privilege to participate is not taken lightly.

[W.R.Buchanan]

I would bet that this all came down to a misunderstanding due to language . I don't know what Ajay's nationality was but I doubt that English was his first language.

Anytime you are dealing with different first languages the scene is ripe for misunderstanding and as

I have stated here on the board many times, "the misunderstood word is the root of ALL conflict."

There are so many examples of this phenomenon in everyday life that virtually everyone should be able to grasp the concept.

How you handle these missteps is up to you, but if you see a situation happening, you kind of have a responsibility to society to at least try to fix it.

Randy

[6pt-sika]

Once a person realizes we don't all see or care to see things the same half the battle is won !

Now with that being said I think this guy and a couple of his "followers" couldn't see the forest for the tree's so to speak .

And if thats the way they care to be then thats fine . just don't get upset when someone calls them on it .

[dverna]

We are all here at the pleasure of the site owner and moderators. This is a rather tame site so if you have an issue or disagreement you need to be a bit diplomatic in your words. But I do not believe Ajay was banned.

Ajay was/is a great resource. He was willing to help everyone. I sincerely hope he returns.

Don Verna

[Red River Rick]

jmortimer:

Hardly insulting! Questionable, yes!

And BTW, there were no messages exchanged, just to clear your curiousity.

Ajay/VdoMemorie/SuperBlazingSabots, whom ever he is, was the cause of his own demise. As was mentioned in the original thread, "EXTORTION" will not be tolerated!

Ajay should have chosen his words more carefully, this "WE" stuff, don't cut it either. Remember, all of us are quests here. The "Shotgun" section is open to all, just like the other sections of this forum, and not just a select few "BOOLITEERS"!

There's a lot more to it, than you need to know. Ken owns the site, Ken calls the shots!

At one time, I participated quite a bit in the Shotgun section...........until a few NEW members showed up. It didn't take long for me to stay away from there, since it had turned into a "Following".

BTW, 6pt-sika speaks well..................you should listen to his words as well.

If you have anything to add, please feel free.
:drinks:

RRR

[jmort]

"I think someone is missing a few fries from their happy meal!"

I will stand by my original post as being both temperate and reasonable. My opinion, is that the post in question is insulting and not productive. It implies a low I.Q. and it is posted above and speaks for itself. Between Ajay and Ed, we were/are getting real good and useful information. There are a few members contributing useful/good information on a regular basis and others who add nothing. It is unfortunate that Y-man's inquiry has been clogged-up with nonsense.

[bikerbeans]

"I think someone is missing a few fries from their happy meal!"

I will stand by my original post as being both temperate and reasonable. My opinion, is that the post in question is insulting and not productive. It implies a low I.Q. and it is posted above and speaks for itself. Between Ajay and Ed, we were/are getting real good and useful information. There are a few members contributing useful/good information on a regular basis and others who add nothing. It is unfortunate that Y-man's inquiry has been clogged-up with nonsense.

When I posted RRR's quote to Ajay someone removed it shortly thereafter. See how long it lasts this time.


BB

[Hogtamer]

I think WR got it just right. Ajay is ethnic Indian and like non-native speakers from around the world realize, American English idiom is difficult if not impossible to master. I guarantee his english is better than our Hindi and in light of his enthusiastic (if sometimes awkwardly expressed) contribution to load development I hope the ban will not be permanent. There are a number of others whose contribution to the art and science of big lead from shotguns is substantial as well, but things sure work better when there are no missing parts. Thanks to all who do.

[jmort]

Ajay emailed me and said no PM were involved so it is all there in the thread for each to decide what is what. So I would just refer back to my post, #2 in this thread.

[turbo1889]

I guess I must have missed the whole "foof-a-rah" since this is the first I've heard of it. I do have a few comments on what has been stated so far:

#1 ~ I don't quite think putting Ajay and Ed in the same slot category is quite fair. True both had ongoing "blog" type threads. Ed though never seemed to have a commercial interest and what he did sell he sold at barely above cost, kind of like group buys where he took on the full initial cost himself. Ajay on the other hand seems to have a strong commercial interest. It at least "appeared" to me that he was desirous of a following possibly for ego reasons. Ed never really comes across that way to me. Not saying that makes anything Ajay did necessarily "wrong" in my opinion but I do see some differences in the motives and personality of the two that produce a clear distinction between the two.

#2 ~ Personally, having a following actually scares the living daylights out of me personally, I've had a few posters ask questions of me both on the public forum and via. PM that seemed to have a worship type following attitude and although I still answered their questions as best as my ability I did my best to try to tone it down a little. That following/worship type stuff scares the daylights out of me because I know I make mistakes too and having someone else following me into my mistakes puts me on the responsibility end of things. But at the same time I do want to help others with some of the learning curve and tell them the things I've learned so they don't have to reinvent the wheel. It's a difficult balance to strike. As for those people who want a following, I don't understand that AT ALL its kind of like those people who always want to be the life of the party and thrive on it. I understand its just another personality type different from mine and I try not to be judgmental but still I have a hard time not being so since I don't understand it.

#3 ~ I'll try to say this one as respectfully as possible. The false assertion that all conflicts are caused by misunderstandings of communication is exactly that, a false hood, in my opinion usually not maliciously put forth on a conscious level but rather at a subconscious level based on the desire that such was actually true; AKA = wishful thinking personified as the truth in the mind of the perpetrator of the false assertion. Strong disagreements often result from two or more people with diametrically apposed view points fully understanding each other !!! In such cases there are only three possible outcomes: party A is wrong and party B is right, party A is right and party B is wrong, or both party A and party B are both wrong. The one possibility that does not exist is that both parties are both 100% right and its human nature that no one likes to be the one who is wrong in an argument and will do almost anything to avoid that possibility and when two or more people forming two sides of a pointed argument face off someone is going to end up being wrong and if both or even one side are willing to keep fighting and even fight harder when they figure out they are the one that is wrong - well things have a tendency to get ugly. I will fully admit that I have been a party in such "discussions" in the past, and yes I've been the one that was wrong before as well. I do try to keep on a high enough mental plane to be willing to admit I'm wrong if it turns out I am, I'm not convinced some others also at least try on that score.

[jmort]

Y-man, I have nothing further to add and you can see the foolishness involved. I will repeat that I am impressed with what you are doing and good for you. If you need anything from Ajay just post it here or I can put you in touch with him if you want. Thanks and God Bless

[MBTcustom]

Ajay demanded entitlements in return for his contribution here. Both from the site, and from certain members.

One thing I know about people with knowledge: sometimes they use their knowledge to build a following, and then they use the collective voice of their following as leverage to make demands. I see this as a perversion of the gifts they have been given.
Goodwill should never have a pricetag attached. If somebody wants their day in the sun, then do the research in private and foot the bill yourself to get it published instead of mooching off of a public forum.
This is cast boolits. The information here is to be freely given and freely accepted. Ajay demanded "payment" of sorts. I told him he was an ungrateful parasite, and that if the way castboolits is set up just doesn't work for him anymore, to feel free to go elsewhere, which he did for a short time. He realized his audience didn't follow him to his "new home forum" because it sucked rocks, so he came back and signed in under a new handle :roll:
When he tried a different angle of extortion, Ken had had enough and banned him.

Ajay can do very well in an environment where he is payed for his "Quest" so he should write a book, or start his own blog, but he wanted to force cast boolits to give him a bigger spotlight, and that is unacceptable here.

I have some semblance of respect for the mans work, and he has a winning personality, but when he demands favors in return for his honored presence here, it just perverts the whole reason we are all here.

If my wife ever told me that I'm going to buy her a new car or she's leaving, I'd tell her the same thing I told Ajay: Don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out!
Would I miss her? Hell yes, I'd miss her. I miss Ajay. But he's not coming back without an apology and an attitude adjustment.
Period.

[Janoosh]

"Goodwill should never have a price tag attached", a great quote and honest and true words, Thank You, Goodsteel.

[Y-man]

Many thanks all. I think I understand now. He was quite helpful when he was here. Many thanks JMortimer for your kind words! I hope to post an update soon.

[W.R.Buchanan]

turbo: I respect your respectful rejection of my point.

However your example made my point! When you were wrong,,, what word did you not understand? Because if you had understood all the words, you wouldn't have been wrong in the first place,,, and you probably wouldn't have disagreed with the other person either.

I defy you or anyone else to relate one instance where the"root cause" of the conflict was not a misunderstood word or phrase.

If you trace it back to the beginning they all start this way and I have been studying this phenomenon for 40 years and have yet to find even one that did not!

The reason why I know this to be true is because I actually counsel people to find the causes of upset. In 40 years of doing this not once has there been a case where there was not a misunderstood word or phrase at the bottom of the conflict.

It always starts this way. I don't care how little or how big, it always starts this way.

Why do you think diplomacy is such and art? You are nearly always dealing with different languages and most times there are not exact literal translations of words simply because synonyms in various languages have different connotations. Thus A does not actually equal B even though the interpreter thought it did!

The English language is a pretty serious challenge, even for the people who speak it everyday. This shouldn't be much of a surprise to anyone.

This is where it starts. I mean recently Iran didn't think the new treaty meant what John Kerry thought it meant? DUH? Wonder who misunderstood what? I think Kerry might have to eat that one since he thought they actually would go along with anything we want. They hate our guts period, and this hatred goes way back so finding the root cause is probably going to be impossible.

I will give you one specific example of a word meaning two completely different things when spoken in two different locations in this country that lots of people on this board know to be true.

In most of this country "Cock" is a slang term for a Penis. In Texas a "Cock" is a Vagina! Go figure,,, but I know I was somewhat taken aback the first time I heard it.

You don't think that one alone starts it's share of fights in Texas?. You guys from Texas feel free to jump in here!

Another example is when I say "Your dog gave my dog fleas." However it was noisy outside,,,and you thought I said "your wife gave me fleas." Next you want to kick my ****. IE: YOU MISUNDERSTOOD WHAT I SAID!

Rush says " he refuses to be responsible for what YOU think he said!" For good reason,,, most of the people listening to him DON"T understand what he says half the time. The left routinely has a field day with this guy.

Hell,,, lots of the people here don't understand what they read in the posts, and then chime in with some assertion that the OP didn't know what he was talking about .

People "dub in" what they "think" YOU said all the time. This is simply because they didn't understand what you "actually" said!

If this hasn't happened to you then you've never been married!

To dismiss my comment as a "false assertion" is very short sighted indeed.

Randy

[UNIQUEDOT]

I haven't been around in awhile so I have no clue what happened here, but I do hate to see Ajay go. Wish I knew the story so as to draw my own conclusion!

[UNIQUEDOT]

until a few NEW members showed up. It didn't take long for me to stay away from there, since it had turned into a "Following".


WHAT????? are you serious? if so you might as well "stay away" from this entire site since it's geared for a "following" of followers. I mean after all everyone here follows along on this site as well as other sites calling a cast lead bullet a "boolit" and then of course there's this " Boolits= as God laid it into the soil,,grand old Galena, The Silver Stream graciously hand poured into molds for our consumption. . . Bullets= Machine made utilizing Full Length Gas Checks as to provide projectiles for the masses." Now what's that you say about a following?



And if thats the way they care to be then thats fine . just don't get upset when someone calls them on it .

I may as well call you on it too...are you gonna get upset?



BTW, 6pt-sika speaks well..................you should listen to his words as well.

Or perhaps you guy's should choose your words more carefully before throwing that "following" out there especially when that's exactly what you've been doing.

[MBTcustom]

Look fellers, Ajay made lots of friends and he made a few enemies. That's what happens when you are doing great things, so no big surprise there.
Where Ajay made his big mistake was getting too big for his britches, and demanding special treatment from the board, and special favors from certain highly esteemed members.
That's what got him the boot.
Now, Ajay is not done posting I'm sure. Wherever he is I'm sure he is making a big splash so I encourage any of you that were following along to go find him and continue your experiments. We are not the only board on the internet (although we hold the highest standard of conduct).
Getting banned from here is never done out of revenge or by one man. It takes some low living on the part of the banned member and it is agreed upon by Staff.
But come on, it's not like if you get banned from here you are unable to post anywhere on the web! It's just that if you can't keep it civil and gentlemanly, you will have to deal with a whole forum that holds the same standard of conduct as you do, which makes things.......difficult.

I don't mind ya'll having a gripe session, but if this devolves into mud slinging I have a way to stop it.
If you are incapable of laying blame for Ajay's dismissal squarely at his own feet, then the only other party to blame is Staff, and I be standing right here.
If the way we run this place is unacceptable to you, just PM me and I can make sure you no longer have a problem with logging on here.
Yall wanted to know what happened to Ajay. Fine now you know.
If you need someone to step up and take responsibility for that decision, fine. Here I am.
NOW MOVE ON!

[MBTcustom]

I just had one other thought that is worth throwing out there.
Any of you could do what Ajay is doing, and if you keep your nose clean and maintain an honest attitude, I dare say you could get much further.
Everybody likes riding the bus that someone is driving and checking out the scenery along the way, but you could start your own journey.
I can tell you this, for every one member we have that posts pictures of what he is doing and shares openly, there are ten that do these things in private and never post anything.

[Teddy (punchie)]

goodsteal Thanks !! for trying to explain this. Not sure what led up to all of this but it is done and so be it.

I think most of us are just nosy and have a need to know, is all it comes down to.

Ajay may have reason(s) for what he did, but if he is not going to work to make a easement for what was said then it is done.

Thanks !! Again !!

[MBTcustom]

I think most of us are just nosy and have a need to know, is all it comes down to.

Ajay may have reason(s) for what he did, but if he is not going to work to make a easement for what was said then it is done.

Thanks !! Again !!

I can respect that, and Ajay was loved by many people here and vanished suddenly. I felt you were all owed an explanation (others disagree with me).

The fact that Ajay did not do whatever it takes to make things right is the worst part of this, and really is the best evidence to back up what I am saying.
If these accusations had been made about me, I would have submitted myself to any authority I could, and begged forgiveness from the offended parties. Whatever it took to apologize and clear my name before it was too late. I would have done this as soon as I got wind that someone had a problem with me if there was any way I could have done it.
I got in Ajays face over comments that he made on the forum, and there was absolutely nothing done to make that right. That was a bad move. I would have gone to bat for him otherwise.
As it was, he had a whole squad of cheerleaders egging him on, and he let that go to his head instead of doing the right thing.
"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall. Better it is to be of an humble spirit with the lowly, than to divide the spoil."

[cpileri]

Its true, i just was curious; wasn't going to ask but i am, voyeurishly, glad someone else did.

I still check in on Ajay on the ASSA forum but there isnt much going on there; it goes days without any new posts at all.

this forum is definitely the place to be(*).

C-

(*) i have test 6 lined up, and will shoot them and post it w pics soon! Promise!!!

[DRNurse1]

Thanks Mods and Mr Goodsteel for keeping this the best place to share casting and loading information.

I am sorry that some treat this as a personal funding stream. There is likely something that you have for which someone else would be willing to pay, but as long as we keep sharing the knowledge gleaned your wealth will continue to exceed those profits.

This thread is a good illustration of that and, although we do not hear from Ajay directly, all parties seem well represented.

[turbo1889]

turbo: I respect your respectful rejection of my point.

However your example made my point! When you were wrong,,, what word did you not understand? Because if you had understood all the words, you wouldn't have been wrong in the first place,,, and you probably wouldn't have disagreed with the other person either.

I defy you or anyone else to relate one instance where the"root cause" of the conflict was not a misunderstood word or phrase.

If you trace it back to the beginning they all start this way and I have been studying this phenomenon for 40 years and have yet to find even one that did not! . . .

The "false assertion" that I believe is a form of wishful thinking personified on a subconscious level boils down to your (and others, you are by no means the first one I've encountered with this specific view point) to the use of the word "all" in front of "conflicts" followed by some phrase along the lines of "result from misunderstandings of what the other guy said".

I would actually agree with you that many, quite possibly most conflicts do indeed result from this. But it is not "ALL" of them and there is a significant minority that are totally and completely conflicts not based on misunderstanding but on actual strong differences that are clearly understood.

I will now quote myself in part as to what I specifically said with bold emphasis added to clarify that this was what I was addressing (perhaps it would have been wise to bold emphasis the "all" in the original):


. . .

#3 ~ I'll try to say this one as respectfully as possible. The false assertion that all conflicts are caused by misunderstandings of communication . . .



One blatant example of this could theoretically consist of a poster from the hard line Islamic world posting a thread on this forum asking if his cast boolits would provide a quick clean kill on his daughter who he was honor bound to put down because she had been having premarital sex on the sly with the neighbor boy.

I (and hopefully a lot of others) would post that doing this would be cold blooded murder and he had no right much less any obligation to do such a thing. He obviously would disagree. We would both fully understand each other, not much room for "little language misunderstanding thing" going on with that one. And I can assure you we would fully disagree and there would be some sparks a flying. The disagreement would not be a matter of misunderstanding but rather a fundamental difference of position, in this case on a matter of considerable concern.

Or how about a serious disagreement involving lethal force where no words were exchanged whatsoever? I come home and walk into my house to find a home invasion thief in the act of stealing some of my guns. I open my door to find him and he sees me and I see him and he grabs one of the guns and I draw my sidearm and "bang!", "bang!", "bang!" is the only kind of communication that ensues. Obviously we had a strong enough disagreement to involve lethal force. Yet there was not a single word either verbal or written exchanged. That's not a possibility that is outside the realm of possibility and there are plenty of cases in this world where lethal combat has ensued without a single word to be "misunderstood" in order for the conflict between individuals to rise to such a level as to to be a matter of life and death.

The "it's all just a misunderstanding" theory as an absolute just doesn't hold water.

As to your specific challenge. A year ago or so I had a massive multi-page long internet debate with another individual on a different forum from this one over the pollution impact of driving a car vs. riding a low powered moped sized little put-put cycle. I initially strongly asserted that a big old car burning more gas compared to the 100-200 mpg little moped vehicle would mean the car produced way more pollution per mile. He strongly asserted the exact opposite was true and called gas mopeds and similar vehicles the worst polluters of all on the road.

By the time we both go done researching the actual facts on the mater and throwing them at each other along with a bunch of words that got rather strong at times. It turned out I was wrong on many points and that most small gas engine mopeds/scooters and similar produce more NOx, HC, CO, PT, etc . . . emissions per mile then a modern car with only the best of the line cleanest burning engines actually keeping those "smog" type pollutants down as much as a modern car or in a few cases just slightly less. But on CO2 the little gas sippers were way, way, way ahead of a car so I did win on that point but it was pretty much the only one with the exception that "fuel processing and delivery pollution cycle" (all the pollution caused by industry getting the gas into the pump before you fill up your vehicle) was high enough that on the grand scale of things getting better mpg and thus using less gas per same distance traveled actually makes as much reduction in pollution on the supply end to equal or more then make up for even the dirtiest burning engine that smokes like a chimney.

But it did turn out I was indeed very wrong that non-CO2 tailpipe pollution from a little moped or similar vehicle was much lower then a car, actually is usually the opposite. None of that was due to me not understanding him or vic-a-versa. We both understood each others positions quite clearly and they were diametrically opposed and on several specific points, it did turn out I was the one that was wrong.

Another example, an atheist evolutionist says their is no God and everything came out of Evolution starting in the beginning from nothing and the nothing became so compact it exploded into something (big bang). I say there must be at least one extremely powerful spirit being capable of creating the physical universe and everything in it because there is no macro-evolution for either living or non-living physicality only de-evolution on the macro scale and thus you must have a conscious creator(s) above the physical realm powerful enough to overcome the trend toward chaos entropy rather then systems of balance and precision in a universe where we see systems of balance and precision slowly decaying into chaos entropy. Either one of us is wrong and the other is right or we are both wrong. Impossible for us both to be right and its not a matter of us not understanding each others positions either, we both understand each others positions (and both think the other is nuts).




I can assure you that "debates", even "arguments", even "fights/brawls" can and do occur on gun forums including this one where the spark point of the whole thing is not a misunderstanding but rather clear and diametrically opposite positions that are non-negotiable with each other and at least one individual on both sides. And if you want to claim that the last option isn't possible in a long distance verbal conflict, I'll concede on that point and can give you a situation where it was face to face and it did go physical and I had to intervene with loaded firearm in hand to keep two younger middle-aged guys from beating one old guy half to death (He was loading at the range on the bench with a lee loader without weighing his charges and just using a full case compressed load of powder measured by volume with the case itself as the measure, they didn't think that was safe, he said it was because of the powder/cartridge/bullet-weight combination he was using. It started with some sharp high end hostility verbal action and then went physical and I made the decision to intervene when the old guy was down on the ground and they were both kicking him even though he was down and wasn't even fighting back anymore.).

[UNIQUEDOT]

[QUOTE]sometimes they use their knowledge to build a following[QUOTE]

And that's exactly what this and every other site of knowledge is here for wouldn't you agree? so that everyone can openly share their knowledge which would be worthless and useless if no one was there to "follow" it. I have no idea what happened with Ajay and being told what happened only tells me what I've been told. If he deserved being banned then so be it as I don't care either way as I only enjoyed reading his posts, but kept with my own slug and buck testing.

I also thought he was a standup guy, but I may be wrong as I said I don't know. I take advice and would give it if I had it :mrgreen: I "follow" the advice of many here on casting and loading and am thankful for it, but the only man I follow is Jesus Christ. I guarantee you that any one here with more than a few posts have "followed" someones advice and as far as building followers how would we define the "following" of hmmm... let's just say some vendors here...that almost seem religious?.

I think Mr. Buchanan sums it up pretty good on how a misunderstanding allows these disputes to get out of hand as obviously I'm misunderstanding the (others) definition of "following" and "followers".

[W.R.Buchanan]

Turbo: So in the beginning of your CO2 debate did you, or did you not, understand that the moped polluted more? Was there a misunderstanding there? If you were wrong then obviously you had a misunderstanding on the subject. If you had not resolved this, in 25 years with many more incidents piled on top of this one, you could end up doing something heinous.

What you are missing here is the "Root Cause" portion of the conflict. In your CO2 debate it was just words, but in the case of the Arab his misunderstandings (which were probably taught to him by ignorant clerics), has lead him to want to kill his daughter.

I agree with you that if I came home and found someone raping my wife that he would be dead as soon as the sights came to bare. Without a word spoken!

I also would assure you that it would have been due to a serious misunderstanding on his part, and you can fill in anyone of hundreds to chose from in his mind.

However all cases are different and unique to the individuals but will tend to share common motivators. This is how a group of people functions. They all have something in common and part of that is little chains of events which are similar enough to each other to create a bond.

When it comes to the "Root Cause," this thought or misunderstanding may or may not have anything directly to do with the conflict at hand, and seldom does. It is part of a chain of events which mutates as similar events are piled on top one after another over time and eventually leads the individual to where he is at now. In fact when the root cause is unearthed it usually is so ridiculous and non-secquature to the final event, that it results in uncontrollable laughter. That's when you know you got to the bottom of that chain of events or it's "root cause." It is always a misunderstood word or phrase.

All of your examples are valid however they just don't go deep enough. I assure you that a misunderstood word or words are at the bottom of each one.

Believe me I have heard vehement denial of this concept literally hundreds of times, and I have witnessed the root cause of the chain of events come into view hundreds of times as well.

It always ends up the same way. When you sit in front of people and listen to their problems long enough they do tend to show similar motivations. The more you do it the more it validates the concept.

Randy

[btroj]

Wow, arguing over what caused the argument.

Cabin fever?

[6pt-sika]

He's gone get over it and move on !

[turbo1889]

@ UNIQUEDOT

By "following" I was referring to the semi-fanatical group of "fans" kind of like pro-sports fans Superbowl type rooting for your team and getting a huge high when your team wings or a huge let down it looses. At least in my mind a very different thing then learning from the work others have already done. That "rooting fan base" thing once it gets going can get ugly, sport fans have even killed each other in rare incidents in real life over team loyalty. Anything that starts getting close to that kind of "tribalism" or starts to smell like it to me turns me off, or if I'm the one being made the object of such scares the daylights out of me and makes the hair on the back of my neck stand on edge.

Hope that helped rather then muddied up the waters further. I've seen that kind of "cheering fan base" following of some individuals on some forums. I'm not so sure Ajay had that kind of base and if he did it was a fairly light version, my gut feeling though is he was the kind of personality that was desirous of it. Which actually isn't a reason I should judge him, there are a lot of extrovert personalities that crave and thrive on that and its just part of their personality. My personality all I can see is the responsibility and consequences potentials created which I tend to run the other way from.




@ W.R.Buchanan

Well, I guess I am missing it. Because I see conflicts created by misunderstanding where the more each side truly understands each other the more the conflict is reduced. And I see conflicts created by real differences where the more each side truly understands the other the more the conflict is escalated.

And I most certainly reject the idea in principle that if we could all just understand each other we would all get along. Some conflicts can certainly be solved that way. Others cannot. For those that cannot there are some where one side or the other can be proven right or wrong (or both sides proven wrong) that is often the case in points of disagreement in the hard sciences. Ultimately Dr. Pasture's microb theory was proven correct and his major opponents who thought the idea of microscopic disease causing organisms absurd were proven wrong. Some of his opponents once proven wrong were high enough minded to accept it and change their stand, a few others its a matter of history still refused even with overwhelming proof right up to their death, one actually causing his own death in a desperate attempt to prove the famed Dr. wrong by deliberately infecting himself with one of the Dr's "nonsense" microbe cultures. Unfortionalty, this is not always the case where the truth can be found out and proven since many points of hard disagreement are more esoteric in nature.

Thankfully, though with a reloading and casting forum many of the disagreements that are "hard point" disagreements not matters of misunderstanding of communication tend towards the hard sciences enough to often fall into the "provable" category rather then esoteric. But this in and of itself with some personalities can make things get even more ugly since some personalities and mental frames of mind fight even harder and more viciously with more under handed tactics upon realization that they are the one that is wrong rather then admit it.

[turbo1889]

Wow, arguing over what caused the argument.

Cabin fever?

Can't 100% deny the possibility.

I personally am actually more interested in the more theological discussion (I've tried not to get argumentative although I admit maybe not with full success) as to what causes stuff like this and what the deeper things going on the background are IN GENERAL, NON-SPECIFIC TO THIS PARTICULAR INDIVIDUAL/INCIDENT.

Human nature study, or at least that is the direction I seem to be drifting the thread. Hope I don't get in trouble for thread drifting.

[UNIQUEDOT]

He's gone get over it and move on !



That he is and I for one couldn't care less, but I do have a problem with a mans character being attacked by accusations of "building followers" when that is exactly what every single vendor on this site is out to do so that they can sell their products and in turn sponsor the site.

[turbo1889]

In that case I think I should clarify my statements further even though I have tried to do so already. "Building followers" I do not see so much as a "character flaw" as a different personality type that because it is different then mine I obviously have compatibility issues with I probably shouldn't judge him for. Such "party king/queen" personalities do seem to have more drama around them though; again trying not to judge, trying to keep an open mind, just my observations from the slanted view point of someone who is a different personality type.

Any personality type can get themselves banned from the forum if they let their weak points run away on them. Different personality types just have different weak points that try to run away on them, that's all. I kind of know what mine are, and if I missed one I'm sure some on this forum will gladly let me know and if they don't. Well my woman will certainly let me know next time I get into an argument with her !!! :)

[jmort]

Some real dumb-a$$ nonsense posted in this thread. goodsteel provided the site prospective which was productive. I like this site for many reasons including "Casting For Shotguns" and consider goodsteel a friend. I also consider Ajay a friend and he provided me with much useful information and inspiration. In the fullness of time, I see what a loss it is not to have Ajay here. No one comes close, except Ed, for info and graphics for shotguns. And then I see get over it comments from members who are less than useless and add nothing. I consider this a Greek tragedy hubris and all. This is the best site for shotgun slug/buck/ball reloading, bar none, and the best firearms site period. BTW, I side with W.R. Buchanan over Turbo1889 in the off topic argument. Turbo1889 does have a real good handle on shotguns and thanks to him for some great shotgun info. Most all of you are real good guys. I also agree with the notion that many others have, and are trying to gain a following and I don't have a problem with that or cliques.

[6pt-sika]

And then I see get over it comments from members who are less than useless and add nothing.

Oh , you're such an expert LOL's !

[MBTcustom]

I'm really rubbing my temples and trying to understand how my instruction to MOVE ON, was misunderstood.

Please go shoot something and remind yourselves why we are all here in the first place!
It's not that hard to take a shot at a target, take a picture, and post it online with your interpretation of what it means. Ya'll should try it sometime. It's fun, and usually, useful conversation ensues.

This thread is closed.