444 marvel

[bigted]

took my little friend out today after loading some new loads for it. i have had this Lyman # 429660 that throws a 325 grain boolit for awhile and as memory serves it has the crimp groove too low on the boolit for the OAL of the 444.

today it struck me that with a full case of powder ... i could load this dandy up over the last drive band and crimp over it instead of crimping in the crimp groove. so i tryed it ...

taking my boolit ... i measure it for depth into the case and then meter some IMR 3031 into the case to a depth that the boolits gas check would just slightly compress the powder and came up with an amount of powder of 43 grains behind the 325 grain semi wad cutter with the gas check on the base. so i loaded 5 of these to see what they would act like.

also i took out my GOEX 2F powder and fooled with it to find out what kinda starting load i could begin with in blackpowder ... finding that i could load 50 grains of the 2F powder under the 325 grain boolit. crimped over the last drive band and walla i have a begining load of 2F powder as well. so i loaded up 5 of these as well.

taking my little 17 inch barreled Marlin to the front yard ... i shoveled in the smokeless loads first and levered in the first one. the first shot went wild as i admitedly flinched with the somewhat heavy trigger ...[gotta fix that]... man what a great load. it will be a nice hunter for sure.

next shoveling in the 5 blackpowder loads i levered in the first one. shooting at the snow covered bank i picked out a speck and let roar ... danged if i didnt hit the thing ... the next 4 went rite there in the same raged hole here in my short range and standting fast and offhand.

this little gem has always held my attention as it were the rifle i killed my first Alaska moose with. nothing has changed as it still handles very well and the short length makes it such a great boat gun or brush or 4-wheeler gun ... on n on.

to say the least i will continue playing with this little shooter. if there be others out there that have a love affair with the lowly 444 ... please do chime in as this little gem gets some bad publicity from the 45-70 crowd ... [i am a 45-70 lover as well but]... i sure do like this 444. it is beat a bit and not in the new condition i bought it with but those are just mile markers and great memories to me.

i have often considered rebarreling it or having it bored out to something else but i always settle down with it and leave it just the way it is.

[6pt-sika]

I've never heard of a Lyman 429660 mold . I do however have a Lyman 429649 mold thats a gas check 325 grain mold . I'd love to see a picture of the bullet your mold drops . I also have a 429650 mold that drops about closer to 300 grains .

[RickinTN]

Another option might be to use some of the short Hornady brass used in factory loads with the "gummy tip" bullets. If I remember correctly this brass is .155" shorter than standard 444 brass. Might have to figure a way to crimp the bullets because of the shorter brass but I'm thinking a 44 magnum seat/crimp die might work.

Rick

[bigted]

well lets see if i can shuttle a couple photo's here from that danged bucket.

you are rite in the number ... it is a 429650 mold ... misread the number ... happens from time to time i guess. thanks for keeping me correct.

i have loaded them to the crimp groove in the shorter brass from Hornaday but this lessens the amount of powder capability. as of now i can compress 60 grains 2F black in there under this boolit. haven't tryed them shooting yet and maybe it will be that the 50 to 55 grains is all that is needed for the fun cloudy shootin that i like so much.

http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy55/bigted1956/4_zps0ca660c1.jpg (http://s777.photobucket.com/user/bigted1956/media/4_zps0ca660c1.jpg.html)

http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy55/bigted1956/3_zps87a10e5e.jpg (http://s777.photobucket.com/user/bigted1956/media/3_zps87a10e5e.jpg.html)

so there they are before lubing. i like em a lot and think they should do great on hunting in the brush. at 325 grain ... they should steam along and create hate and discontent where ever they land. my next trial will be the 55 and 60 grain loads of 2F as well as some RL-7 for a good stout hunting load. i figure this boolit steaming along at 1800 to 2000 fps should do all that is asked of it out of the short little Marlin.

[6pt-sika]

well lets see if i can shuttle a couple photo's here from that danged bucket.

you are rite in the number ... it is a 429650 mold ... misread the number ... happens from time to time i guess. thanks for keeping me correct.

i have loaded them to the crimp groove in the shorter brass from Hornaday but this lessens the amount of powder capability. as of now i can compress 60 grains 2F black in there under this boolit. haven't tryed them shooting yet and maybe it will be that the 50 to 55 grains is all that is needed for the fun cloudy shootin that i like so much.

http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy55/bigted1956/4_zps0ca660c1.jpg (http://s777.photobucket.com/user/bigted1956/media/4_zps0ca660c1.jpg.html)

http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy55/bigted1956/3_zps87a10e5e.jpg (http://s777.photobucket.com/user/bigted1956/media/3_zps87a10e5e.jpg.html)

so there they are before lubing. i like em a lot and think they should do great on hunting in the brush. at 325 grain ... they should steam along and create hate and discontent where ever they land. my next trial will be the 55 and 60 grain loads of 2F as well as some RL-7 for a good stout hunting load. i figure this boolit steaming along at 1800 to 2000 fps should do all that is asked of it out of the short little Marlin.

You want a good load try 45-49 grains of H322 of course work up gradually .

[blikseme300]

I have had a love affair with the 444 since I took my first wart hog in '84 using a borrowed rifle belonging to a US hunter visiting South Africa. When I moved to the US the first rifle I bought was a used 444M. Years later and many successful hunts done using CB's I still believe it is the best hunting rifle ever made. If I ever am forced to choose one rifle only this will be it.

[bigted]

well done it ... 60 grains behind this boolit lubed with SPG and loaded rite on top of the compressed 2F powder. hits the same POA as the 50 grain load did and with a bit more sparks n smoke. what a gas. guess i need to try it at a bit longer range and see if it will group worth beans.

but in the fun dept. ... this has to be the most fun round in my short barreled 444. course i like shooting black powder anyway. i dont know if a feller can get much more then the 60 grains of 2F in there and still seat this boolit but maybe with a liter 240 grain might just get 10 more grains in there. leaves me something to screw around with.

[Groo]

Groo here
Go to Penn Bullets and order some SSK 320gr cast.
They have two crimp groves .
Short [ factory length] and long [ big revolver]

[richhodg66]

I used that same bullet, sans gas check and unsized, in a Hornady sabot in my inline to kill a doe during our muzzle loader season last September. Good bullet. Terminal performance was good, broke the far shoulder up pretty good and left a good, visible and short blood trail.

I may have to get a .444 one day to use it in a breech loader.

[Pereira]

Man I love my 444. Got that same mold 429650, loaded with some H4198, at 50 yds. shot some 1" groups. These are the stoutist loads I've put through mine, a heck of alot more than either of the factory loads that I started with. Don't have a chorny at the moment but my data says these should be in the neighborhood 2088fps. Should be a heck of a deer slayer for sure.

[6pt-sika]

I Damage Control Hunt for a couple folks each year . And it should be starting in about 6 weeks . Anyway I have my circa 1966 "Retro 444P" set up to shoot 300 grainers !

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f316/6pt-sika/444%20Marlins/Retro444PandSW629001.jpg (http://s50.photobucket.com/user/6pt-sika/media/444%20Marlins/Retro444PandSW629001.jpg.html)

Have it sighted in with the Lyman 429650 pushed with 50 grains of H322 . It's also pretty much same POI for the RCBS 300 SWC again with 50 of H322 and also with the Saeco #433 RN FP GC again pushed with 50 grains of H322 .

In the past I've killed deer with the RD 432-300GC , the NEI 429-310GC , the Lee 430-310GC and they all worked well so I see no reason the above three wouldn't do a good job as long as I do my part .

[cwheel]

The way to crimp the shorter Hornady brass is to get a Lee FCD crimp die and have a machinist cut the .155 from the bottom of both the die and the inner collet. I have a friend who uses Hornady bass only for his loadings, I trimmed the die for him, works great. Just remember, it will only work with the shorter Hornady brass after the trim. We found that the shorter brass will not reach the roll crimp in the seating die of RCBS dies that we had, only option we could find was to shorten the FCD die.
Chris