Need help: loads for a 510 wells or 500 a-square

[Whiterabbit]

Hi guys,

Been dreaming about a .510 cal elephant gun for years. Well, Pac-Nor should be sending me an email any day now to tell me by barreled action is finished and on its way back! I need to prep loads.

The cartridge is 510 Wells. I use H4350 and H4895. Perfect! Looks like both are used in the A-square (well, IMR not H, but I should be able to work up with H instead by starting low)

Two challenges:

Load data out there is for a tough 600 grain bullet, and the data gets pretty aggressive (8000 ft lb muzzle energy). I want to start NOT aggressive and work into the heavy stuff (if ever). But most of all, I want to start by using my Lyman 515141 mold which drops at 425 grains.

I'm not sure where to go for powder loads to start with. I Just know that I want to use either H4350 or IMR4895. If 4350 works for everything I do with this gun I will be very, very happy.

Anyways, do any of you guys have load books that have the Wells or the A-square included in there? Can you share the load data? Especially if there's something for light bullets and my two powders. I don't want to punt with such big case capacity.

[Nobade]

What twist rate did you go with to build that .510? Typically they come with 1:15 or faster, which is going to seriously limit how fast you are going to be able to push a plain base cast boolit unless you paper patch it. As for load data, what powder do you want to try and how fast do you want to go?

Once you get some good loads worked up for it, that is going to be a really fun rifle. Keep in mind that Lyman boolit at 1300-1400 fps is going to be just like a 50-90 and plenty of power for hunting most anything. And that's not even up to idle in a 510 wells!

-Nobade

[swheeler]

COTW 12th edition pg 274

500 A-Square 600 sp, IMR 4320 116.5 gr, 2475 fps, 8155 ME data source A-Square

I think a pm to Ken/45 NUT could get you some cast data, he shoots a 500AS

[Whiterabbit]

will talk to Ken too for sure.

Nobade, I selected a 14 inch twist. I have learned that for my shooting and loading style, fast twists are better.

My intermediate goal is to find a soft shooting load with this bullet. I'll worry about full power and longer bullets later. I don't have a power or speed goal with the 450 grainers. As you say. 50-90 class loads won't be up to idle in the Wells. That's OK. I'm just looking for what the bullet and rifle can do that isn't just a case full of trailboss.

[swheeler]

Wabbit check here too-http://www.accuratereloading.com/500as.html

[Whiterabbit]

2400 fps with a 700 grain bullet, and 2600 with a 600 grain bullet. Good. God. That sounds delightfully un-fun to shoot!

Truly, I'm looking for advice on downloading for lighter bullets. I have seen NO loads for any bullet weight below 600 grains. Haven't talked to Ken yet, waiting to catch him in the chat room.

[swheeler]

Well I think that 700 gr bullet would be overkill, 600 grs should be enough for even racoon:)

[Nobade]

Well, I just ran the loads with IMR4895, and it's not going to be too good for any kind of reduced loads. 100 grains of it still only burns at about 80%, and velocity is up over 2200 fps. For fun plinking loads you need something that burns a whole lot faster. Do you have any other powder on hand? Say 2400 or faster than that? For example, 40 grains of 2400 should go about 1600 fps and 100% burn. Might want some dacron on top of that one, since it's only 38% filled. Or if you wanted to slow it down some more, try Red Dot. 20 grains of that should be good for about 1300 fps. No filler needed or wanted there. Any of the really fast flake powders are going to do something similar - start at maybe 15-16gr and work up a grain at a time until you start to get a grey bore, than back off a couple grains. Shouldn't be any trouble finding a pleasant to shoot, accurate load that way.

-Nobade

[Whiterabbit]

grey bore?

[dubber123]

I am assuming the cartridge capacity is significantly larger than a 50-90, but I have some smokeless loads in the 50-90 worked up using faster powders in the 28,000 psi. range, including the Lyman boolit you mentioned, and a paper patch 560 grainer. The 560's run about 1,900 fps. so mild for your cartridge.

[Nobade]

grey bore?

Once you drive the cast boolit too hard, the first traces of failure and leading will show up at the muzzle as a grey bore, as opposed to black like it should be. Keep shooting loads that do that or hotter, and you will lead up your bore and have to give it a good scrubbing. I often use the muzzle condition to tell me when to stop when working up loads, and to check afterward to see how things are working.

-Nobade

[Whiterabbit]

but I have loads in my BFR that will leave a wash in the bore just inside the muzzle, and they shoot pretty well. Are you saying those loads could be even better if I slowed the bullet down?

[Whiterabbit]

Well, I just ran the loads with IMR4895, and it's not going to be too good for any kind of reduced loads. 100 grains of it still only burns at about 80%, and velocity is up over 2200 fps.

Hi Nobade,

I do appreciate your continued input. I carefully read every word. Just curious, is this 100 grain load modeled with a 450 grain bullet? What is the minimum charge to reach 100% burn, and what is the charge that reaches, say, ~55ksi give or take?

I know. Results that are based on the inputs you are given, that may or may not reflect reality, etc. But still a good starting point to consider.

[Nobade]

Yes, using that same Lyman boolit #515141 seated .500" deep and a 22 inch barrel. A full case of IMR4895, or 110gr, gives 95% burn - pretty good. It also makes 45,000 psi and 2500 fps.

If you drop tube it and get 115gr in there, it should be good for 54,000 psi and 2650 fps.

-Nobade

[Whiterabbit]

actually, that might not be too bad. "The internet" tells me the recoil impulse isn't that much higher between my old 338 lapua with no muzzle brake at max compared to the 450 grain bullet moving at 2200 fps. Probably beyond what the bullet is capable of doing :(

so I'm back to your other suggestion "Any of the really fast flake powders are going to do something similar - start at maybe 15-16gr and work up a grain at a time until you start to get a grey bore, than back off a couple grains. Shouldn't be any trouble finding a pleasant to shoot, accurate load that way. "

Would blue dot be OK for this? I have some of that. No red dot though. At this point, it'll be either blue dot or a case full of trailboss.

I ask as someone who has little to no experience with bluedot, unlike 4895, 4350, 4198, and trailboss. It's on the bench because we loaded some 45 acp for a buddy using data from the NRA manual. I don't shoot small pistol rounds, so I don't really know my fast powders in general. But have the leftovers of blue dot on the bench. So there's gonna be a lot of trust on my end if you make any suggestions specifically (in other words, please be specific and don't be shy talking as if I don't really know anything about the "dot" powders)

Perhaps it would just be best to stick with a case full of trailboss if we are talking speeds as low as 1200 fps?

[Nobade]

25-35 gr. Blue Dot will get you there too. 25gr. should go 1200 fps, 35 gr. should go 1500 fps. I wouldn't go any higher, pressures will rise quickly and accuracy is likely gone by that point anyhow. Same deal, start low and work up slowly until you find the best load. I wouldn't use any fillers with Blue Dot either.

-Nobade

[Whiterabbit]

Cool. That might be a winner, depending on what a case full of trailboss does.

As a sanity check, and for my own knowledge, and to help me do some doublechecking online, can you share where the 25ish-35ish comes from? Also, why no fillers are needed, and (separate question) why they are not desired for the dot powders? Helps me "learn my powders", so to speak.

[Nobade]

A case full of Trailboss (37 gr.) should give you about 1450 fps, and 32,000 psi. I bet you are going to see some leading with that combo!

The loads I have suggested come both from experience with similar guns and from running through Quickload.

You don't want fillers with fast flake powders, both because they don't need it for a good burn and because the super fast pressure rise could slam the filler into the base of the bullet and ring the chamber. These dot powders will burn completely at very low pressure, and are not position sensitive at all. The situation changes considerably with rifle type powders, most of which either really appreciate some poly fluff or granular filler, or some that just plain aren't going to work at pressure lower than what they are designed for.

-Nobade

[Whiterabbit]

excellent. Thank you for that.

the last piece I'm gonna bug you about is the suggestion that the TB will lead @ 1450 fps (give or take). Predicted pressure of 32ksi must surely be a component in the prediction of leading. Because if 25-25 grains of bluedot is gonna net me a ballpark of 1200 to 1500 fps, the TB is within the noise, yet no suggestion of leading with the bluedot?

Or do you think the bluedot is equally likely to lead, and that its a matter of doing what you say before, inspecting the bore at the muzzle and looking for grey wash. Regardless of the powder choice (blue dot or trailboss)?

[Nobade]

From what I have seen, TB leads like crazy when the pressure is pushed up that high. I haven't had much luck with it past 25 Ksi. I'd start at about 75% fill and work up, watching for leading. The Blue Dot will do the same speed with about half the pressure, and a much more gentle launch. (Relative thing when dealing with such fast powder, I know.) I would expect some leading with 35gr. of Blue Dot too, hence the suggestion to start low and work up...

-Nobade

[Cheshire Dave]

I remember reading that to get smokeless loads for the big British black powder express loads you used 40 percent of 4198 with the case filled with poly pillow stuffing. I did this with the 45 85 285 Colt. Which is just a 4570 with a light bullet. Worked great. Not sure what the amount of black the .510 Wells holds but i would think 40 grains would be a good starting point.

[Whiterabbit]

Actually, the parent case to the 510 wells was designed in 1957, so all this kinda post-dates the old cordite days. Much less the BP days.

[Whiterabbit]

by the way, my rifle is coming along...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=96026&d=1391838217

Most important, NECG called today, the banded front sight base I ordered in October w/ 4-6 week lead time arrived today :). Just a matter of time now.

[Whiterabbit]

Yes, using that same Lyman boolit #515141 seated .500" deep and a 22 inch barrel. A full case of IMR4895, or 110gr, gives 95% burn - pretty good. It also makes 45,000 psi and 2500 fps.

If you drop tube it and get 115gr in there, it should be good for 54,000 psi and 2650 fps.

-Nobade


Well, I just ran the loads with IMR4895, and it's not going to be too good for any kind of reduced loads. 100 grains of it still only burns at about 80%, and velocity is up over 2200 fps. For fun plinking loads you need something that burns a whole lot faster. Do you have any other powder on hand? Say 2400 or faster than that? For example, 40 grains of 2400 should go about 1600 fps and 100% burn. Might want some dacron on top of that one, since it's only 38% filled. Or if you wanted to slow it down some more, try Red Dot. 20 grains of that should be good for about 1300 fps. No filler needed or wanted there. Any of the really fast flake powders are going to do something similar - start at maybe 15-16gr and work up a grain at a time until you start to get a grey bore, than back off a couple grains. Shouldn't be any trouble finding a pleasant to shoot, accurate load that way.

-Nobade

Nobade, you are the man. Took my rifle out on Saturday and shot my 20 rounds. the reduced loads were fun and easy shooting. Should develop accuracy quick too. I also decided to try 3 rounds of 100 grains of H4895 as a minimum acceptable "more powerful" load to balance a bad load vs leading the heck out of the barrel. Not to mention my fears of a shoulder bruise.

My fears were over nothing. The recoil was no greater than, and perhaps less than my 6.5lb 12g shotgun shooting 3" slugs. for such a big rifle, it was downright soft shooting. There's no way that, maxed out, the recoil would feel like "double" the recoil of the 3.5" magnum shells, like the internet told me would be the case. Just not so! This is going to be a fun, fun, fun rifle.

Anyways, based on what you were telling me, I was expecting an unburned powdery mess in the barrel, but that was not the case. of course these loads DID leave the grey bore you promised me, but it was and is worth it to have taken her out for the first time.

[Whiterabbit]

Last thing I need to do is figure out how to shoot cast lead with H4350. New mold. Whatever bullet weight is needed, whatever bullet design needed, whatever alloy and lube needed. If I can buy bulk H4350 and use it across all my rifles, I'd just be on cloud 9.

[Nobade]

Well, a case full of 4350 under that Lyman 450 gr. should go about 2200 fps and make 30KSI. So, just substitute BPI shot buffer or Cream 'O' Wheat for 4350 in whatever amount you feel like, I'd start at maybe 1cc, and see if it doesn't shoot well without leading. At least that's where I would start. No, actually I would start by sizing that boolit to .501" and paper patching it back up to fit the throat. But if you aren't into that then the COW sometimes works wonders. Glad to hear the other loads worked for you!

-Nobade

[Whiterabbit]

wow, so a case full of H4350 cant really get me into trouble? how heavy does the bullet have to get before the pressure starts to climb pretty high? 650 grains? 700? 800? If I were to ask you for a bullet recommendation (weight) specifically designed to shoot using H4350, what would you tell me? Assuming the twist was good for it, that I wanted something I could crank to full power, And that I didn't have to worry *much* about leading?

and do I really need the COW? I had some 338 lapua loads that used H4350 that were awesome and had really low case fill. Like 83 grains of powder in a case that could hold over 100

[AlaskanGuy]

Wow... Look at that beauty!! The bore looks like a 12 gauge.. Cant wait to see it from some other angles.... Very nice work wabbit

[Whiterabbit]

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=97074&d=1392706315

[AlaskanGuy]

Very nice... Did you do the checkering on it as well????

[Nobade]

wow, so a case full of H4350 cant really get me into trouble? how heavy does the bullet have to get before the pressure starts to climb pretty high? 650 grains? 700? 800? If I were to ask you for a bullet recommendation (weight) specifically designed to shoot using H4350, what would you tell me? Assuming the twist was good for it, that I wanted something I could crank to full power, And that I didn't have to worry *much* about leading?

and do I really need the COW? I had some 338 lapua loads that used H4350 that were awesome and had really low case fill. Like 83 grains of powder in a case that could hold over 100

Well, I have been focusing on making your 450 gr. plain base boolit work. The COW is for that - making up for the lack of gas check. I don't know what the throat in your barrel looks like or how the cartridge needs to fit in the magazine, but how about this:
http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=51-660B-D.png
Made for the 50 BMG, and has a gas check shank and pretty long nose. If it will fit in the magazine and come close to the lands, it ought to shoot fine and having a gascheck it can be driven quite fast without having to use filler. The same load, a compressed charge of 4350, should make about 46KSI and go 2100 fps with this 660gr. boolit. Still safe, but accuracy would remain to be proven at that high a pressure.

Oh, the 338 Lapua has a much lower expansion ratio so 4350 in it is a fast powder, where 4350 in a 500 A sq. is really a very slow powder. A case full of 4350 in a 338 Lapua would be a bomb.

-Nobade

[Whiterabbit]

good more stuff to try.

nobade, as anfyi this rifle can chamber 50 BMG bullets just fine, the throat is nice and long (which I like). Of course a spitzer like an m33 wont go in the mag, but it hand feeds just fine, I just dip the headstamp into the mag and of I go.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59324&d=1358906826

the lefthand load is what fits and feeds just fine. That is not my 450 grain bullet, I can link that in a bit but have no pics. but is still more representative of what I want to make work. At this point I have ALOT of playing to do, but even if not 100% efficient if I can make a "starting" load of 4895 or volumetrically big load of 4350 work with the 450 grainer, ill be happy. It doesn't recoil as much as I feared, so I can put away trailboss and blue dot and concentrate on "normal" loads. a "trainer" using the 450, then off to find a new mold for heavy work.

I can understand exactly what you are saying about the role expansion ratio has on powder choice. That's not a factor I keep in mind often (though I've read a bunch about it), but now that you mention it I can visualize that perfectly. Also jives with the way the lapua gun felt when shooting/cycling those loads.

(AG, the stock is a stock CZ550 stock. All I did was install flush mount sling swivels, remove F-block, full barrel bed, install mercury recoil reducer, and fit a limbsaver. I'm not patient enough yet in life for checkering. Need another decade of years on my age.)

[AlaskanGuy]

Lol at the checkering comment.... That is something I AM gunna learn...

[Messy bear]

My a square loads
4895 and a 600 Nei cast I ran with 100 gr and a fed 215. No crono data.
My min load was 90gr.
For a livelier load 122 gr behind a 450 gr barnes original ran 2800 fps and wrecked stuff bad!
I only ran the various 4350s behind 6-700 gr originals.

[Messy bear]

I found some loads with IMR 4350 and the 600 Nei cast.
115 gr no crono
120 gr 2330 fps very consistent

My most used load by far was 112 - 115 gr wc- 852 with the
600 cast for about 2000 fps

[Whiterabbit]

wc852 is the 50bmg powder? I thought that was too slow for the a-square? Do you suppose it would work using a 450 grain hardcast bullet? I'm having trouble getting 4895 to group. Just as Nobade predicted. Would be nice to use cheap powder instead of trailboss or bluedot

[Messy bear]

wc- 852 is a surplus powder originally loaded in 3006. many different lots ranging in burn speed from h-380 to 4831. i have used 3 of them from that range. this one was slow like 4831. it is a ball powder.

[Whiterabbit]

oh rats. I thought it was BMG powder. If it's 30-06 powder then it's gonna be Hen's Teeth in this environment. Only reliable surplus powder to be found these days seems to be BMG powder.

[smoked turkey]

Very interesting and timely thread for me. Last week I was handed a 500 A Square rifle on the 1917 action built by A Square and asked if I could do a load work up using cast with a more friendly recoil impulse than provided by the big jacketed stuff. So as you can imagine this thread has provided a treasure of information for me. My sincere appreciation to those giving loading information. I do not want to high jack this thread but I think my question can best be handled by this group here. My question concerns the set of A Square dies that was loaned to me for the load work up. I am planning to use the Lyman 515142 boolit sized at .512, at 510 grains. I noted the sliding bushing in the seating die has an inside diameter of .510. The crimping portion of the die is contained within the sliding bushing. This concept is nearly the same as used by Hornady in their dies. The immediate problem is the boolit will not pass through the sliding sleeve, and no crimping can take place. Also I question if there is a bullet or boolit seater missing from this die. I have only a top punch that has an unthreaded hole in it. This configuration will not allow the boolit to pass through and there is not a way to set the boolit seating depth. My immediate question before I get to loading questions concerns the A-Square seating die and hoping someone can say yes it is all there or it is missing the boolit seating stem. After that it seems that I need to "open up" the sliding sleeve to accomodate the .512 cast boolit. Any help on this die dilimma would be appreciated. Thank-You!

[Whiterabbit]

good luck. My dies are RCBS. I have had nothing but trouble with dies that have sliding internals. Give me fixed parts!

[Messy bear]

sorry im no help as i made mine. who made those dies?
sounds as though you need to open it up. or make another one so you always have the original.

[smoked turkey]

I am not sure who made the dies I have. They are A-square branded. Yes I agree that making a spare sliding sleeve would be the way to go. That would be a little beyond my skill level, but I would like to give it a try. I was hoping someone with similar dies (A-square) would answer my question concerning whether my die set was complete or not. It seems to me the seater die needs a boolit seating stem in order to set the boolit depth during the seating process. My dies do not have the needed seating stem. I tried to post a picture of them and couldn't get the system to cooperate with me. I know a picture would be worth a thousand words. Thanks for your input Messy bear.

[smoked turkey]

I would like to open this older thread back up to see what progress has been made on shooting the 500 a-square with cast boolits. My particular mould is the Lyman 515142, a 510 grain plain based. I did give up on getting any information to help make the 500 a-square dies I have work with my boolit. I ended up buying a new set of CH4D and have prepared a few cases for loading. I am willing to purchase a particular powder if it is clearly better than what I have on hand. I am hoping to settle on a load that gives in the neighborhood of 1400-1500'/s. I have SR 4759, 3031, 5744, and Unique that I have fair amounts of on hand. I don't have specifics on this load but I am aware that 42 grains of 5744 has been used with some success. I saw some mention of Red Dot, 2400, and 4895. I have a limited amount of that. These big bores are nice in small doses for me. I cannot get into loading heavy at 2500'/s. Just too brutal for me. Thanks for any and all help with my need for loading info.

[Whiterabbit]

30 grains of trailboss so far is the magic load. one ragged hole at 25 yards, I haven't tried farther yet, taking it slow. 29 didn't work, 31 didn't work. Dunno if 29.5 or 30.5 would be even better or not. Dunno if it all falls apart yet at 50 or 100 yards. But good promise. Feels like a 270. With a real bark.

Haven't gotten 4895 or 4350 working yet. 100-105 grains of H4895, or 115 of H4350 are safe enough to shoot, but accuracy is terrible. No lead left in the barrel either, though the whole bore is grey with "antimony wash", or whatever it is that is a pain to clean out. no lead flakes with a tight patch. weird.

Next step is to size down and try paper patching. Ordered the parts the other day, just waiting on them to arrive.

At the same time, I ordered 200 m33 ball bullets for shooting "50 peacekeeper" loads. Need to figure out good H4350 load data for that too. That is to be a long distance plinking round for nothing but single-loaded fun. Those will arrive in a couple weeks too.

I'm gonna run out of H4350 real fast.

[Don1955]

Hi all;

I'm using 36.0 grs. of Bluedot behind a 508gr. PB boolitt, in my 500 jeffery. Works good for me and clean burning. I hope to cono. this load now that weather is warming up. I'll update when I do.

[smoked turkey]

Thanks for the loading information for the 500 A-Square. I loaded up six rounds to try my SR 4759 powder yesterday. The first three were 25 gr behind my Lyman 515142. This is a pretty light load, so I loaded the next three with 32 grains of the same SR 4759. These felt much better and velocity was chronographed at 1403'/s, 1457'/s, and 1448'/s. Burn was fairly clean but did have some unburned powder in the barrel. I used Remington 9 1/2 LR primers. I wondered if mag primers would give a better burn. I plan to try Unique next go around. I plan to go with some 5744 also. I am looking for a whitetail deer load as well as a load that can be used to punch paper without being too painful. I may give Bluedot a try also. I did see where Reddot has been used with some success too. Thanks.

[Whiterabbit]

stole some bluedot for today. Tried 25 and 30 grains with the lyman 515142. Looks like 25 grains is more accurate. might try to play more around there. Might not. The vertical spread was pretty tightl, and I accidentally put a bump in the center of the rear sight when filing the V groove (now its a W groove) so that might account for all the horizontal. 25 might be the sweet spot.

Looks pretty promising to shoot BMG bullets cut to 600 grains with about 100 grians of H4350. stout, but not unmanageable, and nowhere near max loads of 120-125 or whatever the max load actually is. I cant imagine taking the recoil at 120+ grains of powder.

I'm learning there's lots of personal training for recoil management. my shoulder is about 80% and my head about 70%, but my middle finger is taking a beating on range day now. I'm hoping that toughens up cause its making it tough to fire more than 12 rounds in a day.

[Whiterabbit]

what do you guys think. Think a 770 grain boolit that is PLAIN BASE and shot to 2000 or 2100 fps would work to 100 yards in such a gun? accuracy to a few inches OK? cast from 92/6/2 "hardball"? lubed with lsstuff 2500+ lube? H4350 powder?

I have promising results with the NOE bullet but that's with a gas check and it's heavier. I dunno if the gas check would make all the difference.

[Nobade]

I think if you can achieve that, you have done what the vast majority of cast boolit shooters have not been able to achieve - especially given the fast twist in your barrel. The gas check makes a world of difference.

I have been able to achieve respectable accuracy and no leading with plain base boolits up to about 1900 fps, by using granular filler and very slow powder for the application. but never as fast as you want to go. If you figure out how to do this, tell us about it.

-Nobade

[Whiterabbit]

well, doesn't get louder and clearer than that! Thanks :)

[Whiterabbit]

update, looks like the winning load is 92 grains of H4350 and the NOE 850 grain GC boolit. I can't trust my chronograph anymore, so I have no idea how fast the bullet is going. Between 1800 and 2000 fps? But I can do a 2" group at 100 yards with 2 rounds. Did that twice, so not a fluke (in my book). third round always opens up cause 2 rounds is all I can take psychologically for now. :) Gimme 2 years and ill be a pro at shooting that thing. Got 10 lb of H4350 so I'll be shooting it till my shoulder or retinas go.

50 yard shooting is much much easier, and I guess that's the point anyways.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=113393&d=1407896316

[Nobade]

It's good to see you have it shooting well. I hear you about the physical effects - those big guns are hard to shoot accurately for very long! Have you considered making yourself a standing benchrest? That may ease the punishment.

Did you get the stock to hold together? I hadn't heard anything about your bedding issues for a while.

-Nobade

[Whiterabbit]

Fixed. New stock is holding up great so far, front sight hood no longer sliding off under recoil. Combination of insufficient relief at the tang combined with an action that was able to shift enough to contact the tang inlet. Both have been corrected, including putting some bedding back at the tang to help strengthen the space in case of contact. That has net been needed yet. But I have learned you definitely cannot mess around with anything with a safari-type rifle. Any aspect that is "just good enough" is not good enough. Pretty amazing.

[olafhardt]

I have used 16 grains of Titegroup behind a 440 grain slug in a S&W 500 magnum Handirifle. Titegroup is supposed to not be position sensitive.

[skeettx]

As far as the middle finger. Take an EAR ear plug and cut it in half from top to bottom.
Place the flat part of the now cut ear plug against the rear of the trigger guard.
Glue or tape in place.
Much easier in the finger
Mike

p.s. http://www.globalindustrial.com/p/safety/ears/earmuffs/classic-value-pak-bulk-390-1000?infoParam.campaignId=T9F&gclid=CI6PpLXTgsICFQqCMgodjgQAKQ&gclsrc=aw.ds

they cut easier after some time in the freezer :)

[Whiterabbit]

well that would have saved me 20 bucks. I solved that too. My local gun shop owner who is older than dirt and knows everything there is to know about anything that is worthwhile to know put me onto a high end shotgun maker in Connecticut


http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/

They have a bumper for folks with old british doubles, for issues with shotgun recoil, etc:

http://www.csmcspecials.com/Trigger_Guard_Rubber_Corners_p/corner.htm

Seemed a smidge gimmiky, and seemed too hard to do the job when it arrived, but I tell you what, it works.

[FLYCUTTER]

Whiterabbit, go to Precision Reloading web site and they do have 500 A-Square brass for $175. for 100 pieces and the dies are sold out BUT they do have a picture of the 2 die set and yes there is a seating stem. Check it out.

[Whiterabbit]

wow, that's amazing. you can't even get any 378 weatherby variant for $1.75 each. You can;t even get 338 lapua for 1.75 each. Thanks.

[Vince from MO]

Do any of you guys have any original 500 A Square ammunition? I have some in the 10 round plastic wallet boxes that has original A Square labels, but the brass headstamp is Weatherby 460 Wby. One box has 600 grain soft point and one is solids. Is this original?

Thanks,
Vince

[Whiterabbit]

Unlikely to be original. More likely the wallets were used as ammo cases.

[Whiterabbit]

so, update. I found my recoil limit, at least for now. Not sure I can ever get used to the recoil. Shot a bunch of m33 ball (648 grains-ish I think?) at 2000+ fps through my 12 lb rifle, and thought I was doing OK. then I put one round of NOE 850 grain cast lead boolit (my boolit of choice for long term shooting) loaded to 1800-1900 fps (can't remember the speed) downrange, I was done for the day. Way, way too unpleasant. I'm gonna back it down to 1600 or so, try to find an accuracy load around there. Was using 90-ish grains of H4350, gonna try 71-83 grains, see if there's an accuracy node around there.

90-96 with an 850 grain boolit is shocking. In the literal sense of the word. 100-ish with the m33 ball bullet is manageable, but for some reason 850 grains is in a whole new world.

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I love this rifle. It's like a physics experiment. And maybe one day I can use it to eat.

[frank505]

These big rifles are too much fun, a 600 grain cast at 2200 is rather rude to pigs and raccoons.......

[Vince from MO]

Thanks to those that responded. This ammo that I referred to in my previous post belonged to a friend of a friend and he passed away. All of the reloaded ammo that he had is clearly marked with date and components. That's why I am wondering about these cases made from 460 Wby. brass. There is other 500 A Square ammo that has been reloaded, but labeled so.
Does anyone know the history of the original 500 A Square? Just trying to find some answers.

Thanks,
Vince

[frank505]

Have you tried AA5744 ? That's a lot of my shooting in the 505 Gibbs. Very pleasant load of 65 grains and a510 grain. Sure makes my thirty pound plate shiver. The 600s at 2200 about knock it over and it's hung from a tripod.

[Whiterabbit]

while I got alot of 1 pounders in various flavors, I only need bulk in two powders and I wanna keep it that way. that's H4350 (for rifle) and 4198 (for pistol). and I would have gotten rid of 4350 except it's an amazing powder for 7x57 and there seems no reason to make 4198 try to work. so if I go away from 4350 to try something faster, it'll be 4198. Just got a couple 45 colts, gona try to make 4198 work for that, too. That might be the reason to ditch 4198 for something else (5744 might be a candidate)

[Vince from MO]

Can you guys tell me what brand of 500 A Square brass do you use?

Thanks,
Vince

[Whiterabbit]

mine is pretty mixed, but the bulk is 378 weatherby, about 60%. 30% 460 weatherby, and 8% norma (460 wby) with something else sprinkled in too.

[Vince from MO]

Thanks Whiterabbit,

This may not be the place to ask this question, but I can't get an answer. I'm trying to find out what headstamp was on the original 500 A Square ammunition.

Thanks,

Vince

[wmitty]

Nobade hasn't said anything about it, but would the duplex load ( imr 4227/ wc 860) be a viable loading for this cartridge? Sure would be cheaper, if that is a consideration.

[Whiterabbit]

I wrote a post saying I didn;t think the economics played out like that for such a large case.

Actually, it does. The powder is the most expensive part, minus the fact that I pay double for boolits because of my alloy and gas check choice. But still, 4227/860 came out to 24-32 cents cheaper per round.

That's actually about a 50% consumable savings at 32 cents. That's ALOT more shooting!

Thing is, right now I shoot no more than 10 rounds per session, and once I work up my shoulder strength it likely won't be more than 20 rounds per session. if I shoot the rifle 8 times a year that's 160 rounds, for a total annual savings of about 40 dollars. Or, I skip the wine a few times a year, get that 15 year old bottle of scotch instead of 18 year old and off I go.

That doesn't include the $20 of loads I have to shoot to re-develop the load for 860 :) or the fact that I have 872, not 860 :) :)

But that's part of the fun too, I suppose. I'm at the point where I might be able to consolidate ALL of my shooting to H4350 and Blue dot (might have to keep 4198 on the bench). If I can do that, I can buy in some solid bulk and be good for the forseeable future!

[stubby1]

Glad I found this thread; plan on shooting 510/600 grain boolits with 5744 powder which is plentiful in this area.
Have shot plenty of jacketed bullets and will experiment with cast reduced loads (getting older, some of you know what I mean).

Anyone have a formula to determine 5744 loads with cast (like the formula for trailboss listed) ?

[Whiterabbit]

I found a GREAT reduced load for this round. 74 grains of H4350 with the 850 grain NOE boolit. With or without gas check. This will do 1500 fps and recoil like a single shot 12ga with 3" slugs, maybe 3.5" shot. That might sound like alot, but compared to 92 grains of H4350 (about 1900 fps) which is still a reduced load much less than whatever the real ceiling is (I've never taken it to ceiling) it's soft!

Truly, this "level 2 reduced load" can be shot all day, I can blow through all my brass (about 40-50 pcs) with this load, unlike the 92 grain load which I'm severely limited on. This load in my 14" twist barrel is good to 100 yards, hard to miss actually. My biggest problem is it blows the steel right off the stand within 2 shots, and I have to wait for the cease fire period to put them back up.

Can't beat 100 yard accuracy on what's supposed to be a 50 yard gun. I wish all my guns so easily shot accurate to double their effective range :)